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Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:44 AM)mlb Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:35 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Ronald Reagan is the perfect example of the consequences when we play politics with a disease.

It was pretty apparent that in the 1980's both Ronald Reagan and the American public thought that the cold war was the biggest risk. He overspent on Star Wars and other programs to break the USSR.

I can't believe you are making me defend Reagan.

Know who was a believer in SDI? Mikhail Gorbachev.
06-05-2014 10:48 AM
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LSU04_08 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:35 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:14 AM)mlb Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I guess some partisan hacks would rather ignore his failed war on drugs, the crash of our economy as a result of his failed conservative policies that got pinned on his successor, avoided blame for the biggest scandal since watergate, blocking sanctions on south africa, and the granddaddy of them all:

ignoring the AIDS crisis and not giving it the proper funding or awareness.

Iran Contra was a huge deal, and I agree that it is one of the biggest scandals since watergate (kind of like the whole gun running we are hearing about now from the DoJ).

AIDS was not really understood at that time and I can't blame him for not pushing for more funding yet.

As I said above, my biggest gripe about him is the same I have for Bush and Obama... overspending.

AIDS was declared an epidemic by the CDC in 1981. Reagan did not make his first public comments on the disease until 1985 when asked about it in a press conference. His first actual comments were made in 1986

in 1986 the death count rose to 24,599.
in 1987 that number rose to 40,849.

In 1987 a federal appropriations bill stated that AIDS funding could not be used to encourage homosexuality which blocked any educational programs from promoting safe sex for homosexuals.

in 1988 reagan cut funding to AIDS research.
In 1988 the death count was 61,816

then there's this little stat about the actual funding levels of AIDS: Between June 1981 and May 1982, the
CDC spent less than $1 million on AIDS, but $9 million on Legionnaire’s
Disease. At that point over 1,000 of the 2,000 AIDS cases reported
resulted in death; there were fewer than 50 deaths from Legionnaire’s
Disease.


Ronald Reagan is the perfect example of the consequences when we play politics with a disease. Well before the 80s & even today it is common practice for the government to give massive funding/public awareness to new and previously unknown diseases. there is no "wait and see" you do that every time and it is better to be embarrassed like obama with H1N1 than to have it blow into a crisis. In 1981-1982 AIDS should of been getting a significant amount of federal funding. Instead it was getting marginal funding that was well below the norms of that day.

Like i said earlier the man should rot in hell.

A person with AIDS could go 10 years without knowing they had AIDS, or could live their entire life with no signs of it. Plus with the 80's technology, there was no cure so if you got it, you were already at a fatal risk. 95% of the people who had AIDS got it from screwing with no protection on or sharing harmful drugs, not Reagan's fault. You just hate him because he was a Conservative. Did you know he was a liberal in the 50's and 60's until his eyes were opened?

As president of the Screen Actors Guild, Reagan became embroiled in disputes over the issue of Communism in the film industry; his political views shifted from liberal to conservative. He toured the country as a television host, becoming a spokesman for conservatism.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2014 10:50 AM by LSU04_08.)
06-05-2014 10:49 AM
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:47 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:44 AM)mlb Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:35 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Ronald Reagan is the perfect example of the consequences when we play politics with a disease.

It was pretty apparent that in the 1980's both Ronald Reagan and the American public thought that the cold war was the biggest risk. He overspent on Star Wars and other programs to break the USSR.

I can't believe you are making me defend Reagan.

yeah and that does nothing to explain why Legionnaire’s
Disease received 9x more funding than AIDS.

So, given what W did for AIDS in Africa, you're a big fan, right?

Don't be a one-issue pony.
06-05-2014 10:49 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:48 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why are we talking about GRID?

because we are talking about the so called "one of the greatest americans ever"

what reagan did can be argued as genocidal. while I don't particularly agree with that in certain belongs in its own grouping below that along with the Irish Potato Famine.
06-05-2014 10:54 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #45
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
I had this discussion with an extremely liberal business associate of mine the other day who stated that over time, historians will judge Reagan as one of the worst presidents ever. My response to her was despite the negatives that was highly unlikely. Reagan presided over a 92 month econoimic boom with expansion and growth in the GDP and 20 new jobs. Many people either forget or are too young to remember he took on an economy that had both high inflation and unemployment. He was a major factor in brining an end to the Cold War and breaking up the Soviet Union.

As MLB stated, the crticism that he did not take on AIDS is revisionist history at best.
06-05-2014 10:54 AM
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:54 AM)john01992 Wrote:  what reagan did can be argued as genocidal.

No, it can't.
06-05-2014 10:55 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
I think condemning Raegan over AIDS is like condemning the leaders of Genoa for the plague.
06-05-2014 10:57 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:49 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:35 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:14 AM)mlb Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I guess some partisan hacks would rather ignore his failed war on drugs, the crash of our economy as a result of his failed conservative policies that got pinned on his successor, avoided blame for the biggest scandal since watergate, blocking sanctions on south africa, and the granddaddy of them all:

ignoring the AIDS crisis and not giving it the proper funding or awareness.

Iran Contra was a huge deal, and I agree that it is one of the biggest scandals since watergate (kind of like the whole gun running we are hearing about now from the DoJ).

AIDS was not really understood at that time and I can't blame him for not pushing for more funding yet.

As I said above, my biggest gripe about him is the same I have for Bush and Obama... overspending.

AIDS was declared an epidemic by the CDC in 1981. Reagan did not make his first public comments on the disease until 1985 when asked about it in a press conference. His first actual comments were made in 1986

in 1986 the death count rose to 24,599.
in 1987 that number rose to 40,849.

In 1987 a federal appropriations bill stated that AIDS funding could not be used to encourage homosexuality which blocked any educational programs from promoting safe sex for homosexuals.

in 1988 reagan cut funding to AIDS research.
In 1988 the death count was 61,816

then there's this little stat about the actual funding levels of AIDS: Between June 1981 and May 1982, the
CDC spent less than $1 million on AIDS, but $9 million on Legionnaire’s
Disease. At that point over 1,000 of the 2,000 AIDS cases reported
resulted in death; there were fewer than 50 deaths from Legionnaire’s
Disease.


Ronald Reagan is the perfect example of the consequences when we play politics with a disease. Well before the 80s & even today it is common practice for the government to give massive funding/public awareness to new and previously unknown diseases. there is no "wait and see" you do that every time and it is better to be embarrassed like obama with H1N1 than to have it blow into a crisis. In 1981-1982 AIDS should of been getting a significant amount of federal funding. Instead it was getting marginal funding that was well below the norms of that day.

Like i said earlier the man should rot in hell.

A person with AIDS could go 10 years without knowing they had AIDS, or could live their entire life with no signs of it. Plus with the 80's technology, there was no cure so if you got it, you were already at a fatal risk. 95% of the people who had AIDS got it from screwing with no protection on or sharing harmful drugs, not Reagan's fault. You just hate him because he was a Conservative. Did you know he was a liberal in the 50's and 60's until his eyes were opened?

As president of the Screen Actors Guild, Reagan became embroiled in disputes over the issue of Communism in the film industry; his political views shifted from liberal to conservative. He toured the country as a television host, becoming a spokesman for conservatism.

yeah it's not like reagan prevented educational groups from advocating safe-sex ==> oh wait a second. YES HE DID.

saying that that wasn't his fault is a joke. regardless of the technology available it should of been given 100X the amount of funding that it did in the early 80s.
06-05-2014 10:58 AM
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blunderbuss Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:06 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:04 AM)john01992 Wrote:  he should be rotting in hell IMO

[Image: uh5A6.gif]

You 2 are disgusting. Seriously.
06-05-2014 10:59 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:55 AM)Smaug Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:54 AM)john01992 Wrote:  what reagan did can be argued as genocidal.

No, it can't.

it has been argued plenty of times. not saying i agree with that notion but it lets not pretend like this is a moot point.
06-05-2014 10:59 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #51
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:49 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:35 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:14 AM)mlb Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I guess some partisan hacks would rather ignore his failed war on drugs, the crash of our economy as a result of his failed conservative policies that got pinned on his successor, avoided blame for the biggest scandal since watergate, blocking sanctions on south africa, and the granddaddy of them all:

ignoring the AIDS crisis and not giving it the proper funding or awareness.

Iran Contra was a huge deal, and I agree that it is one of the biggest scandals since watergate (kind of like the whole gun running we are hearing about now from the DoJ).

AIDS was not really understood at that time and I can't blame him for not pushing for more funding yet.

As I said above, my biggest gripe about him is the same I have for Bush and Obama... overspending.

AIDS was declared an epidemic by the CDC in 1981. Reagan did not make his first public comments on the disease until 1985 when asked about it in a press conference. His first actual comments were made in 1986

in 1986 the death count rose to 24,599.
in 1987 that number rose to 40,849.

In 1987 a federal appropriations bill stated that AIDS funding could not be used to encourage homosexuality which blocked any educational programs from promoting safe sex for homosexuals.

in 1988 reagan cut funding to AIDS research.
In 1988 the death count was 61,816

then there's this little stat about the actual funding levels of AIDS: Between June 1981 and May 1982, the
CDC spent less than $1 million on AIDS, but $9 million on Legionnaire’s
Disease. At that point over 1,000 of the 2,000 AIDS cases reported
resulted in death; there were fewer than 50 deaths from Legionnaire’s
Disease.


Ronald Reagan is the perfect example of the consequences when we play politics with a disease. Well before the 80s & even today it is common practice for the government to give massive funding/public awareness to new and previously unknown diseases. there is no "wait and see" you do that every time and it is better to be embarrassed like obama with H1N1 than to have it blow into a crisis. In 1981-1982 AIDS should of been getting a significant amount of federal funding. Instead it was getting marginal funding that was well below the norms of that day.

Like i said earlier the man should rot in hell.

A person with AIDS could go 10 years without knowing they had AIDS, or could live their entire life with no signs of it. Plus with the 80's technology, there was no cure so if you got it, you were already at a fatal risk. 95% of the people who had AIDS got it from screwing with no protection on or sharing harmful drugs, not Reagan's fault. You just hate him because he was a Conservative. Did you know he was a liberal in the 50's and 60's until his eyes were opened?

As president of the Screen Actors Guild, Reagan became embroiled in disputes over the issue of Communism in the film industry; his political views shifted from liberal to conservative. He toured the country as a television host, becoming a spokesman for conservatism.

Reagan was a Democrat, but he was never a liberal. As he once famously said, "I never left the Democrat Party, it left me". Reagan officially switched parties in 1962 but he publically endorsed and supported Republican Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon throughout the 50s.
06-05-2014 11:00 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:57 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think condemning Raegan over AIDS is like condemning the leaders of Genoa for the plague.

big difference is reagan had the resources to prevent its spread and chose not to.
06-05-2014 11:01 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:57 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think condemning Raegan over AIDS is like condemning the leaders of Genoa for the plague.

Completely agree. AIDS is an awful disease that was just becoming well known.

Otherwise I'm going to argue that George Washington was genocidal because he didn't put more funding into understanding and curing cancer when he became President, because there were doctors out there that had discovered it and that you could remove it via surgery.
06-05-2014 11:01 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:54 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  As MLB stated, the crticism that he did not take on AIDS is revisionist history at best.

it's not revisionist history,

just ignored history......

the biggest crime in all of this was that it never gets discussed and thus we never learned from that mistake for future leaders to follow.
06-05-2014 11:02 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 11:01 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:57 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think condemning Raegan over AIDS is like condemning the leaders of Genoa for the plague.

big difference is reagan had the resources to prevent its spread and chose not to.

So did the Genoese.
06-05-2014 11:04 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 11:04 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 11:01 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:57 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think condemning Raegan over AIDS is like condemning the leaders of Genoa for the plague.

big difference is reagan had the resources to prevent its spread and chose not to.

So did the Genoese.

are you really being this naive?

do you really think these are comparable? one was a modern society that had a full understanding about how diseases worked and had procedures in place to keep new ones from coming out. On top of that reagan chose to tackle other diseases but outed one specifically because of the demographics it affected.
06-05-2014 11:07 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:54 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:48 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why are we talking about GRID?

because we are talking about the so called "one of the greatest americans ever"

what reagan did can be argued as genocidal. while I don't particularly agree with that in certain belongs in its own grouping below that along with the Irish Potato Famine.

So with obama & co. making gay pride seem like the new popular thing to do, what would you consider his accomplishment? Yeah, lets continue to encourage gay men because THAT'S not a problem.

[Image: statistics_basics_HIV-Infections-2010_520x436.jpg]


Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) of all races and ethnicities remain the population most profoundly affected by HIV.

In 2010, the estimated number of new HIV infections among MSM was 29,800, a significant 12% increase from the 26,700 new infections among MSM in 20082.

Although MSM represent about 4% of the male population in the United States4, in 2010, MSM accounted for 78% of new HIV infections among males and 63% of all new infections2. MSM accounted for 52% of all people living with HIV infection in 2009, the most recent year these data are available1.

In 2010, white MSM continued to account for the largest number of new HIV infections (11,200), by transmission category, followed closely by black MSM (10,600)2.

The estimated number of new HIV infections was greatest among MSM in the youngest age group. In 2010, the greatest number of new HIV infections (4,800) among MSM occurred in young black/African American MSM aged 13–24. Young black MSM accounted for 45% of new HIV infections among black MSM and 55% of new HIV infections among young MSM overall2.

Since the epidemic began, an estimated 302,148 MSM with an AIDS diagnosis have died, including an estimated 5,909 in 2010.
06-05-2014 11:07 AM
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blunderbuss Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 10:54 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:48 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why are we talking about GRID?

because we are talking about the so called "one of the greatest americans ever"

what reagan did can be argued as genocidal. while I don't particularly agree with that in certain belongs in its own grouping below that along with the Irish Potato Famine.

Yeah, b/c he held a gun to people's head and forced them to have unprotected sex.
06-05-2014 11:08 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 11:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 11:04 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 11:01 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:57 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think condemning Raegan over AIDS is like condemning the leaders of Genoa for the plague.

big difference is reagan had the resources to prevent its spread and chose not to.

So did the Genoese.

are you really being this naive?

do you really think these are comparable? one was a modern society that had a full understanding about how diseases worked and had procedures in place to keep new ones from coming out. On top of that reagan chose to tackle other diseases but outed one specifically because of the demographics it affected.

If you agree with your premise I could see how you think that. If you don't then it makes little sense. The trouble with your presentation is evidence isn't evidence or proof of its own validity here.
06-05-2014 11:09 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Ten years ago today, America lost one of the greatest Americans ever....
(06-05-2014 11:08 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:54 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 10:48 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Why are we talking about GRID?

because we are talking about the so called "one of the greatest americans ever"

what reagan did can be argued as genocidal. while I don't particularly agree with that in certain belongs in its own grouping below that along with the Irish Potato Famine.

Yeah, b/c he held a gun to people's head and forced them to have unprotected sex.

and at the same time when he knew that having unprotected sex was dangerous he did absolutely nothing to encourage people to stop doing it.
06-05-2014 11:10 AM
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