(06-04-2014 05:37 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 05:12 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 05:09 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I think all of you are missing an essential point in history. China invented many things we take for granted today.

Here's a list of ancient Chinese inventions

and they just stopped overnight being the innovative center of the world. We don't really know why and it is one of the biggest questions in history.

Not really. Just prior to the contact with Europeans, intellectuals took power in China, destroying their massive navy and much of their military. So it's not a question as to how it happened. The question is why it happened.

Had the intellectual revolution never taken place in China, the Europeans would have found a Chinese navy far superior to the Europeans, and a massive military capable of defeating any invader. Remember, the Chinese had gunpowder. The Europeans didn't gain that until after sailing to China.

Got any books or links that describe this takeover?

The Chinese were never really interested in world domination. Xin successfully unified China and the culture of the Chinese really took root and the Great Wall was highly successful in containing the outside threat. They have always had a homogeneous mindset and once the threat of invasion subsided, military innovation kind of halted and eventually the British passed them.

(06-05-2014 07:38 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  The Chinese were never really interested in world domination. Xin successfully unified China and the culture of the Chinese really took root and the Great Wall was highly successful in containing the outside threat. They have always had a homogeneous mindset and once the threat of invasion subsided, military innovation kind of halted and eventually the British passed them.

imagine how big they could of been had they had that mindset.

(06-05-2014 06:49 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 05:37 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 05:12 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 05:09 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I think all of you are missing an essential point in history. China invented many things we take for granted today.

Here's a list of ancient Chinese inventions

and they just stopped overnight being the innovative center of the world. We don't really know why and it is one of the biggest questions in history.

Not really. Just prior to the contact with Europeans, intellectuals took power in China, destroying their massive navy and much of their military. So it's not a question as to how it happened. The question is why it happened.

Had the intellectual revolution never taken place in China, the Europeans would have found a Chinese navy far superior to the Europeans, and a massive military capable of defeating any invader. Remember, the Chinese had gunpowder. The Europeans didn't gain that until after sailing to China.

Got any books or links that describe this takeover?

Study the period between Kublai Kahn's reign in China and the Ming Dynasty. It happened during that era, just prior to British contact in 1515. Although historians are still trying to figure the details themselves. The best records are in China, and many old scrolls still have yet to be translated.

(06-05-2014 12:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Study the period between Kublai Kahn's reign in China and the Ming Dynasty. It happened during that era, just prior to British contact in 1515. Although historians are still trying to figure the details themselves. The best records are in China, and many old scrolls still have yet to be translated.

Thanks

This is quite difficult for me because countries can have such mixed histories. Germany 1930 is very different from Germany 1990, to belabor the point.

1) United States, 1776-1860 ... Founding until Civil War
2) United States, 1877-1930 ... End of Reconstruction until end of Calvin Coolidge Administration
3) British Empire colonies, 1513-1914 ... The British exported Common Law and later technology like the steamship and telegraph ... then kindly left people the hell alone. It is self-governance under British Common Law that was the seed of liberty throughout most of the world.


In no particular order beyond that:

- Hong Kong starting from economic liberalization until handover to China
- Singapore starting from economic liberalization until today
- New Zealand
- Australia
- Chile from the passing of a Constitution in 1981 until their recent election of a socialist
- Canada starting in the early/mid 90's when they dramatically reduced the size and scope of government until today
- Switzerland until they gave up their own commodity based currency 5-10 years ago
- Estonia from their independence from the Soviets until they decided to join the EU

(06-04-2014 05:02 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Best country is the title.
Would think USA. Britain always was concerned with their empire.
We normally have stepped in to fight aggression without being as
concerned about keeping or getting some territory.

Problem with the "territories" logic is that after WW2 it became about resources. Spreading democracy is a good excuse to have reliable access to middle eastern oil.

(06-06-2014 01:18 AM)stAtecamera13 Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 05:02 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Best country is the title.
Would think USA. Britain always was concerned with their empire.
We normally have stepped in to fight aggression without being as
concerned about keeping or getting some territory.

Problem with the "territories" logic is that after WW2 it became about resources. Spreading democracy is a good excuse to have reliable access to middle eastern oil.

Hasn't worked out so well considered there still only one democracy in the middle east. I guess you could count Turkey, but no much oil there I don't believe.