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Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #1
Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
even under the best case scenario:

-They don't declare war on Russia

-The United States loses its carriers, dry docks, & oil reserves at Pearl Harbor

-The US only declares war on only Japan and Germany-US do not go to war in late 1941

could they have pulled off the win with all of this????
06-04-2014 01:34 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-04-2014 01:34 PM)john01992 Wrote:  even under the best case scenario:

-They don't declare war on Russia

-The United States loses its carriers, dry docks, & oil reserves at Pearl Harbor

-The US only declares war on only Japan and Germany-US do not go to war in late 1941

could they have pulled off the win with all of this????

Yes, easily.... The Lynchpin is Russia but a US without Carriers could not have stopped the Japanese from pushing out.

But The German losses in Russia, if sitting in Western Europe would have crushed the allied invasion.
06-04-2014 02:02 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-04-2014 01:34 PM)john01992 Wrote:  even under the best case scenario:

-They don't declare war on Russia

This is the major factor. Do this and Germany can take all of Europe.

Quote:-The United States loses its carriers, dry docks, & oil reserves at Pearl Harbor

The loss of Pearl only give Japan a 3-4 month window to assert local control of the Western Pacific. They can't hold Pearl Harbor, nor can they reach the West Coast. Eventually the US comes back and retakes everything it lost.

Quote:
-The US only declares war on only Japan and Germany-US do not go to war in late 1941

If this occurs without the two front consideration then the Western Allies have no chance of expelling Germany from France and Spain.

Quote:could they have pulled off the win with all of this????

IMO, Germany might have locked up Western Europe, but Japan had no chance of ever succeeding in their goals.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2014 02:20 PM by vandiver49.)
06-04-2014 02:02 PM
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CameramanJ Offline
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RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
I have to figure that the Battle of the Atlantic would have to factor in for a theoretical Axis win.The U-boats were kneecapping Atlantic supply routes before the Allies cracked the Enigma cipher and made some advances in marine radar. If neither of those things had happened, piling on top of the other theoretical points listed, maybe.
06-04-2014 02:02 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-04-2014 02:02 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 01:34 PM)john01992 Wrote:  even under the best case scenario:

-They don't declare war on Russia

This is the major factor. Do this and Germany can take all of Europe.

Quote:-The United States loses its carriers, dry docks, & oil reserves at Pearl Harbor

The loss of Pearl only give Japan a 3-4 month window to assert local control of the Western Pacific. They can hold Pearl Harbor, nor can they reach the West Coast. Eventually the US comes back and retakes everything it lost.

Quote:
-The US only declares war on only Japan and Germany-US do not go to war in late 1941

If this occurs without the two front consideration then the Western Allies have no chance of expelling Germany from France and Spain.

Quote:could they have pulled off the win with all of this????

IMO, Germany might have locked up Western Europe, but Japan had no chance of ever succeeding in their goals.

all fantastic points. Germany could of cleaned up in Europe.

IMO if the US didn't go to war with germany in 41/early 42, if german troops landed on english beaches the US would of realized they had to get involved in the european theater. it is most likely that in this scenario america's involvement in europe is only delayed not prevented.
06-04-2014 02:07 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-04-2014 02:02 PM)CameramanJ Wrote:  I have to figure that the Battle of the Atlantic would have to factor in for a theoretical Axis win.The U-boats were kneecapping Atlantic supply routes before the Allies cracked the Enigma cipher and made some advances in marine radar. If neither of those things had happened, piling on top of the other theoretical points listed, maybe.

OMG yes. That might just have been one of the most decisive events of the war.
06-04-2014 02:08 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-04-2014 02:02 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 01:34 PM)john01992 Wrote:  even under the best case scenario:

-They don't declare war on Russia

-The United States loses its carriers, dry docks, & oil reserves at Pearl Harbor

-The US only declares war on only Japan and Germany-US do not go to war in late 1941

could they have pulled off the win with all of this????

Yes, easily.... The Lynchpin is Russia but a US without Carriers could not have stopped the Japanese from pushing out.

But The German losses in Russia, if sitting in Western Europe would have crushed the allied invasion.

The US without carriers would of essentially evened the carrier count between the US & Japan for the first few years of the war. At that point it would of been interesting to see how the battleships get used.

if you want to add another change ==> japan never builds those two mega warships and uses those resources to build 3-4 more carriers.
06-04-2014 02:11 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
The biggest factor in the Axis losing the war was Hitler declaring war on Russia. Had they not tried to fight a war on 2 fronts, they would have conquered all of Europe. The Russian winter decimated their army, and was the beginning of the end for Germany.
06-04-2014 02:14 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-04-2014 02:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The biggest factor in the Axis losing the war was Hitler declaring war on Russia. Had they not tried to fight a war on 2 fronts, they would have conquered all of Europe. The Russian winter decimated their army, and was the beginning of the end for Germany.

on the flip side russia would of spent those years building up their power than go all out on a depleted germany within a decade.
06-04-2014 02:16 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-04-2014 02:07 PM)john01992 Wrote:  all fantastic points. Germany could of cleaned up in Europe.

IMO if the US didn't go to war with germany in 41/early 42, if german troops landed on english beaches the US would of realized they had to get involved in the european theater. it is most likely that in this scenario america's involvement in europe is only delayed not prevented.

In my Rommel led Germany, all the Reich is trying to do is keep Britain from getting back into Europe. There's no need to take the UK, just prevent them from getting enough relief from the US via U-boat attacks so that Churchill is more focused on keeping the lights on and people fed instead of dreaming about D-Day.
06-04-2014 02:18 PM
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