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Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-04-2014 12:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I can make a better cup of coffee at home and a better steak than one on the menu for $35 but I don't have to use my time to make the things nor clean up afterwards nor put up with my wife not stopping whatever cleaning chore she's dealing with until the food or coffee is nearly cold because it'll only take a minute to finish.
But the people on the margin of actually dropping cable, or dropping down to bargain basement basic cable, a lot of them aren't making that trade-off in favor of the $22 steak or the $5 cup of coffee.

Even for those who aren't sports fans, and who are cable cutting in favor of Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon Prime subscriptions topped up by Rebox or the occasional iTunes/Vudu/Amazon/Nook video download ... its not an extra $5 in sports channel in the Basic Plus that's driving that, its the base cost of cable.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2014 12:49 PM by BruceMcF.)
06-04-2014 12:47 PM
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BewareThePhog Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
A local sports talk radio guy was talking about the SEC network this weekend, and he was saying that in many situations, cable companies have the upper hand. In old SEC country, however, he pointed out the avid fandom bordering on fanaticism for college sports. He noted how some markets have no pro sports options, and even for those which do, how much more popular Georgia football is than the Falcons, LSU football than the Saints, Tennessee football to the Titans, etc. He said that there's going to be a hell of a lot of calls by unhappy subscribers if their carrier doesn't have the games they want.
06-04-2014 02:24 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-04-2014 02:24 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  A local sports talk radio guy was talking about the SEC network this weekend, and he was saying that in many situations, cable companies have the upper hand. In old SEC country, however, he pointed out the avid fandom bordering on fanaticism for college sports. He noted how some markets have no pro sports options, and even for those which do, how much more popular Georgia football is than the Falcons, LSU football than the Saints, Tennessee football to the Titans, etc. He said that there's going to be a hell of a lot of calls by unhappy subscribers if their carrier doesn't have the games they want.

Bingo! The reason DirectTV is dragging its feet is simple. AT&T is looking to buy them if they keep exclusivity on the NFL package. AT&T UVerse was placed into my area in April but not yet available because of the buyout. What I will be interested to see is if AT&T does buy them will they simply use the DTV model for delivery to rural areas in the South and solely use Uverse for higher density population areas. If so I'll get UVerse. If there is no buyout DTV loses my business anyway and they've been told so by me and thousands of others already.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2014 02:52 PM by JRsec.)
06-04-2014 02:51 PM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-04-2014 02:24 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  A local sports talk radio guy was talking about the SEC network this weekend, and he was saying that in many situations, cable companies have the upper hand. In old SEC country, however, he pointed out the avid fandom bordering on fanaticism for college sports. He noted how some markets have no pro sports options, and even for those which do, how much more popular Georgia football is than the Falcons, LSU football than the Saints, Tennessee football to the Titans, etc. He said that there's going to be a hell of a lot of calls by unhappy subscribers if their carrier doesn't have the games they want.

I have a theory that the "call your cable or satellite provider" effect is overstated. All of these regional/team/conference based networks have a cohort of rabid fans they can get to call (otherwise they wouldn't exist). I think heading in DTV knows there are going to be a lot of calls from eager fans. If they get twice as many calls as they expected, is that really going to reduce their target price? I doubt it. They have in their mind what they want to pay and a timeline to get there. I think the call center calls have minimal effect, if any. Sure they're a headache for the call center, but they aren't much of a headache to the decision makers.
06-04-2014 03:17 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-04-2014 02:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  What I will be interested to see is if AT&T does buy them will they simply use the DTV model for delivery to rural areas in the South and solely use Uverse for higher density population areas. If so I'll get UVerse.

Some writers have speculated that, if the DirecTV deal goes through, AT&T will try to move its UVerse TV customers to DirecTV so that AT&T can free up the bandwidth they are using for UVerse and devote more to internet service delivery.
06-04-2014 04:24 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-04-2014 03:17 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 02:24 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  A local sports talk radio guy was talking about the SEC network this weekend, and he was saying that in many situations, cable companies have the upper hand. In old SEC country, however, he pointed out the avid fandom bordering on fanaticism for college sports. He noted how some markets have no pro sports options, and even for those which do, how much more popular Georgia football is than the Falcons, LSU football than the Saints, Tennessee football to the Titans, etc. He said that there's going to be a hell of a lot of calls by unhappy subscribers if their carrier doesn't have the games they want.

I have a theory that the "call your cable or satellite provider" effect is overstated. All of these regional/team/conference based networks have a cohort of rabid fans they can get to call (otherwise they wouldn't exist). I think heading in DTV knows there are going to be a lot of calls from eager fans. If they get twice as many calls as they expected, is that really going to reduce their target price? I doubt it. They have in their mind what they want to pay and a timeline to get there. I think the call center calls have minimal effect, if any. Sure they're a headache for the call center, but they aren't much of a headache to the decision makers.

I would agree with that but in the Southeast Dish is now available and carrying the SECN. The calls aren't hollow at all. Furthermore UVerse is now available in metropolitan areas and becoming available in mid size cities and large towns. It is the actual switch in numbers that grabs their gonads and gets their attention. Each switch is over a $1200 loss on cable per year since most folks wanting BTN or SECN are having to buy the highest tier to get it.
06-04-2014 04:46 PM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-04-2014 04:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 03:17 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 02:24 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  A local sports talk radio guy was talking about the SEC network this weekend, and he was saying that in many situations, cable companies have the upper hand. In old SEC country, however, he pointed out the avid fandom bordering on fanaticism for college sports. He noted how some markets have no pro sports options, and even for those which do, how much more popular Georgia football is than the Falcons, LSU football than the Saints, Tennessee football to the Titans, etc. He said that there's going to be a hell of a lot of calls by unhappy subscribers if their carrier doesn't have the games they want.

I have a theory that the "call your cable or satellite provider" effect is overstated. All of these regional/team/conference based networks have a cohort of rabid fans they can get to call (otherwise they wouldn't exist). I think heading in DTV knows there are going to be a lot of calls from eager fans. If they get twice as many calls as they expected, is that really going to reduce their target price? I doubt it. They have in their mind what they want to pay and a timeline to get there. I think the call center calls have minimal effect, if any. Sure they're a headache for the call center, but they aren't much of a headache to the decision makers.

I would agree with that but in the Southeast Dish is now available and carrying the SECN. The calls aren't hollow at all. Furthermore UVerse is now available in metropolitan areas and becoming available in mid size cities and large towns. It is the actual switch in numbers that grabs their gonads and gets their attention. Each switch is over a $1200 loss on cable per year since most folks wanting BTN or SECN are having to buy the highest tier to get it.

They definitely want to carry the network, but my main point is that I doubt the calls make a difference. They know they will lose some customers, but most won't go through the hassle of switching. Most customers know the drill and don't over- react short term. DTV and the others have a lot of experience on this sort of thing by now and won't be influenced by the background noise of calls or a few switches.
06-04-2014 06:21 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-04-2014 04:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 02:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  What I will be interested to see is if AT&T does buy them will they simply use the DTV model for delivery to rural areas in the South and solely use Uverse for higher density population areas. If so I'll get UVerse.

Some writers have speculated that, if the DirecTV deal goes through, AT&T will try to move its UVerse TV customers to DirecTV so that AT&T can free up the bandwidth they are using for UVerse and devote more to internet service delivery.
That seems likely ... they don't even have to pull the plug on the UVerse basic package, just over-price UVerse only but offer an attractive DirecTV+Uverse package deal ... with DirecTV for channel packages, supplemented in available areas by UVerse for smaller subscriber count, higher margin premium channels, as well as narrow specialty niche offerings that make more sense to stream TV on ISP than over the satellite (since each channel on satellite TV has a fixed overhead cost for the radio spectrum bandwidth it is occupying).

(06-04-2014 06:21 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  They definitely want to carry the network, but my main point is that I doubt the calls make a difference. They know they will lose some customers, but most won't go through the hassle of switching. Most customers know the drill and don't over- react short term. DTV and the others have a lot of experience on this sort of thing by now and won't be influenced by the background noise of calls or a few switches.
But bear in mind that since they have had experience with this thing before, they'll be aware of the psychological effect that those who have been persuaded to make the call are more likely to switch after the call has been placed.

Its not a 100% effect, but its a real increase in risk of churn if the SECN can get people to call, and so the more people call, the more nervous it has to make those systems getting the calls.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2014 06:37 PM by BruceMcF.)
06-04-2014 06:31 PM
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-04-2014 12:47 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 12:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I can make a better cup of coffee at home and a better steak than one on the menu for $35 but I don't have to use my time to make the things nor clean up afterwards nor put up with my wife not stopping whatever cleaning chore she's dealing with until the food or coffee is nearly cold because it'll only take a minute to finish.
But the people on the margin of actually dropping cable, or dropping down to bargain basement basic cable, a lot of them aren't making that trade-off in favor of the $22 steak or the $5 cup of coffee.

Even for those who aren't sports fans, and who are cable cutting in favor of Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon Prime subscriptions topped up by Rebox or the occasional iTunes/Vudu/Amazon/Nook video download ... its not an extra $5 in sports channel in the Basic Plus that's driving that, its the base cost of cable.

That's exactly how I feel.

I had DirectTV for two years. I have nothing but great things to say about them. The very few times I called customer service, they were really helpful. Their rates were the best in the industry (at least compared to Time Warner which I used to have) and I had no complaints about them. None.

The main reason why I got rid of DirecTV is really simple. I don't really watch TV at all. When I do watch TV is usually live sporting events but I would rather go to my local sports bar or family/friends house to watch the games that are on cable.....otherwise I'll watch at home if they're OTA like the Super Bowl, the Final Four, World Series, the Olympics, World Cup, etc. I felt I was paying for channels I either didn't care about or never watched (Lifetime, Bravo, E! etc).

I know Big Ten fans will hate me for this but why should I pay to have the BTN when I find their football and basketball brand incredibly boring. In fact, I don't remember the last time I watched a Big Ten game. I know they're really popular and they make tons of money because they have big and loyal fanbases and just because I don't care does not means other people won't (which is why the Big Ten is one of the top two conferences in the nation moneywise because tons of people care). Another brand I really don't care about is the NBA but they're the second most popular sport in the world behind soccer.

I have Netflix, Hulu Plus and Redbox. All together I pay about $25.50 for those 3 services which is 1/3 of what I used to pay DirecTV. Redbox gives me a four credits or four free movie rentals per month. I can watch movies and TV shows when I want, anywhere. I like that flexibility better than being stuck with a cable/satellite bill.

Whoever was talking about the $22 steak or $5 coffee, the difference is I chose to go to Starbucks and buy a $5 latte. However, I never chose to subsidize a channel like Lifetime or Fox News with my money. That's the main difference.
06-04-2014 07:15 PM
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BewareThePhog Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-04-2014 06:21 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 04:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 03:17 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 02:24 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  A local sports talk radio guy was talking about the SEC network this weekend, and he was saying that in many situations, cable companies have the upper hand. In old SEC country, however, he pointed out the avid fandom bordering on fanaticism for college sports. He noted how some markets have no pro sports options, and even for those which do, how much more popular Georgia football is than the Falcons, LSU football than the Saints, Tennessee football to the Titans, etc. He said that there's going to be a hell of a lot of calls by unhappy subscribers if their carrier doesn't have the games they want.

I have a theory that the "call your cable or satellite provider" effect is overstated. All of these regional/team/conference based networks have a cohort of rabid fans they can get to call (otherwise they wouldn't exist). I think heading in DTV knows there are going to be a lot of calls from eager fans. If they get twice as many calls as they expected, is that really going to reduce their target price? I doubt it. They have in their mind what they want to pay and a timeline to get there. I think the call center calls have minimal effect, if any. Sure they're a headache for the call center, but they aren't much of a headache to the decision makers.

I would agree with that but in the Southeast Dish is now available and carrying the SECN. The calls aren't hollow at all. Furthermore UVerse is now available in metropolitan areas and becoming available in mid size cities and large towns. It is the actual switch in numbers that grabs their gonads and gets their attention. Each switch is over a $1200 loss on cable per year since most folks wanting BTN or SECN are having to buy the highest tier to get it.

They definitely want to carry the network, but my main point is that I doubt the calls make a difference. They know they will lose some customers, but most won't go through the hassle of switching. Most customers know the drill and don't over- react short term. DTV and the others have a lot of experience on this sort of thing by now and won't be influenced by the background noise of calls or a few switches.
There is probably some truth to that, and certainly many rational customers will be likely to either wait out negotiations (even if it takes some time) or even conclude that missing a few games is not worth switching for whatever reason. For example, KU's Tier 3 TV deal specifically gives Time Warner exclusivity in the KC market. I prefer a competitor, so while I'm annoyed as hell at the move (and made those feelings known to the next fundraising telemarketer from the university who called me asking for money) I did not switch providers.

However, I think that the point the guy was making was that the level of engagement of those SEC fans in their traditional markets is so strong that it's a force to be reckoned with. He thinks they're more likely to switch than others. He even excluded Texas and Missouri. While they do have more engaged fans since the SEC move, the leverage is probably not as great in those states, since college sports competes with long-established interests such as the Cowboys and Cardinals.
06-05-2014 12:41 PM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-05-2014 12:41 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 06:21 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 04:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 03:17 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 02:24 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  A local sports talk radio guy was talking about the SEC network this weekend, and he was saying that in many situations, cable companies have the upper hand. In old SEC country, however, he pointed out the avid fandom bordering on fanaticism for college sports. He noted how some markets have no pro sports options, and even for those which do, how much more popular Georgia football is than the Falcons, LSU football than the Saints, Tennessee football to the Titans, etc. He said that there's going to be a hell of a lot of calls by unhappy subscribers if their carrier doesn't have the games they want.

I have a theory that the "call your cable or satellite provider" effect is overstated. All of these regional/team/conference based networks have a cohort of rabid fans they can get to call (otherwise they wouldn't exist). I think heading in DTV knows there are going to be a lot of calls from eager fans. If they get twice as many calls as they expected, is that really going to reduce their target price? I doubt it. They have in their mind what they want to pay and a timeline to get there. I think the call center calls have minimal effect, if any. Sure they're a headache for the call center, but they aren't much of a headache to the decision makers.

I would agree with that but in the Southeast Dish is now available and carrying the SECN. The calls aren't hollow at all. Furthermore UVerse is now available in metropolitan areas and becoming available in mid size cities and large towns. It is the actual switch in numbers that grabs their gonads and gets their attention. Each switch is over a $1200 loss on cable per year since most folks wanting BTN or SECN are having to buy the highest tier to get it.

They definitely want to carry the network, but my main point is that I doubt the calls make a difference. They know they will lose some customers, but most won't go through the hassle of switching. Most customers know the drill and don't over- react short term. DTV and the others have a lot of experience on this sort of thing by now and won't be influenced by the background noise of calls or a few switches.
There is probably some truth to that, and certainly many rational customers will be likely to either wait out negotiations (even if it takes some time) or even conclude that missing a few games is not worth switching for whatever reason. For example, KU's Tier 3 TV deal specifically gives Time Warner exclusivity in the KC market. I prefer a competitor, so while I'm annoyed as hell at the move (and made those feelings known to the next fundraising telemarketer from the university who called me asking for money) I did not switch providers.

However, I think that the point the guy was making was that the level of engagement of those SEC fans in their traditional markets is so strong that it's a force to be reckoned with. He thinks they're more likely to switch than others. He even excluded Texas and Missouri. While they do have more engaged fans since the SEC move, the leverage is probably not as great in those states, since college sports competes with long-established interests such as the Cowboys and Cardinals.

I think the high level of interest is going to make the negotiations occur within a higher price level range from the beginning. This sort of song and dance happens with every regional/team/conference network, just at different price points based on the popularity/demand of the networks. The network has an idea of what they want, the carriers have an idea and the negotiations occur around what becomes the final price point. I don't think the carriers get a bunch of calls and cancellations and say "wow, that escalated quickly" and suddenly pay more. They know the level of interest and demand already. I bet if you asked them, they know exactly how this will play out and about where the final price point ends up. The calls really don't play a big role in how it transpires.
06-05-2014 01:01 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-05-2014 01:01 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  The network has an idea of what they want, the carriers have an idea and the negotiations occur around what becomes the final price point. I don't think the carriers get a bunch of calls and cancellations and say "wow, that escalated quickly" and suddenly pay more. They know the level of interest and demand already.
Its certainly not the main factor driving the price, but it does help the conference side of the negotiation at the margin if they get some negative publicity for the hold-out networks from their calling campaign.

(06-05-2014 01:01 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I bet if you asked them, they know exactly how this will play out and about where the final price point ends up. The calls really don't play a big role in how it transpires.
The price for the primary in-market carriage and for the clearly out of market carriage is not where the sticking points are likely to be, so much as where the boundary lines are drawn and whether there are any areas that get some intermediate rate. The precise market definitions in the deal are something where there are some points still to be decided. Especially given that contracts already drawn likely have a "most favored network" clause, where a lower rate to one network has to be granted to all networks with carriage in that area.

Its like the Big Ten negotiations ... the hold-outs ended up paying the same main market carriage as the early signers, but when the dust had settled, Philadelphia did not end up at the full conference carriage rate as the balance of the Big Ten state footprints.

Saying the calls don't play a big role in what transpires is different from saying the calls don't have any impact. They do help keep pressure on the hold-outs, in part because the stories generated covering the calling campaigns typically tell their readers which networks to subscribe to if they want to get the network, and once one satellite system has it, that offers an alternative over the whole footprint. Its a different bargaining game with the satellite providers involved (and, secondarily, TV over internet) than back in the days of cable-only.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2014 01:26 PM by BruceMcF.)
06-05-2014 01:17 PM
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
Right now neither Comcast or Direct is signed on to SEC Network and I've as yet heard anyone talk of switching but Labor Day weekend is a long time away. If it is the second week of August and Hog fans are starting to realize they might not see the season opener (which is slated for SEC Network) they may start thinking about options.
06-05-2014 01:19 PM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-05-2014 01:17 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 01:01 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  The network has an idea of what they want, the carriers have an idea and the negotiations occur around what becomes the final price point. I don't think the carriers get a bunch of calls and cancellations and say "wow, that escalated quickly" and suddenly pay more. They know the level of interest and demand already.
Its certainly not the main factor driving the price, but it does help the conference side of the negotiation at the margin if they get some negative publicity for the hold-out networks from their calling campaign.

That's just it- they have already taken that into account. They know going in that it will happen. I'm probably being too absolute, but the "call your satellite or cable company" campaign these networks all employ just doesn't have that much effect in the big picture. It's just background noise.
06-05-2014 01:22 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: Examining the pros and cons of the SEC Network (Link)
(06-05-2014 01:22 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 01:17 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-05-2014 01:01 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  The network has an idea of what they want, the carriers have an idea and the negotiations occur around what becomes the final price point. I don't think the carriers get a bunch of calls and cancellations and say "wow, that escalated quickly" and suddenly pay more. They know the level of interest and demand already.
Its certainly not the main factor driving the price, but it does help the conference side of the negotiation at the margin if they get some negative publicity for the hold-out networks from their calling campaign.

That's just it- they have already taken that into account. They know going in that it will happen. I'm probably being too absolute, but the "call your satellite or cable company" campaign these networks all employ just doesn't have that much effect in the big picture. It's just background noise.

But saying its factored in and saying its just background noise are two different things. It may well be largely factored in, but its certainly not just background noise: if the conference didn't do it, the networks would take advantage of the conference not fighting with all the tools available to it and push for a smaller market than they may have been originally expecting to end up with.
06-05-2014 01:47 PM
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