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Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
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Doctor Krieger Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
Yeah, me thinks this isn't gonna end well for Seattle.
06-03-2014 08:50 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 12:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  The state the helped buid the tech industry was governed by Regan in the 70's.

But the Governator and Governor moonbeam...

“California is losing businesses at a 3:1 ratio and we’re not even through with the year yet,” said Vranich. “It’s high-tech, it’s low-tech, it’s all-tech. We have a small company in California, in Los Angeles, leaving with 25 people but it’s Intel that creates 1,000 jobs elsewhere that makes the headlines.”..

I've always heard this line and what I can never understand is if the help was so significant, then why doesn't Seattle or the state of Washington own actual shares of Boeing? That would be a far better means of recouping the supposed help than enacting financially crippling labor practices.
06-03-2014 09:14 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 07:45 AM)niusfactuary Wrote:  While $15 is really really high, I'm glad it's the city that's doing it and not the whole state. Cities should have higher wages than rural areas, and minimum wage should probably be somewhat linked to cost of living. But for one cities politicians (i.e. Chicago) to force that on a whole state is going to make everything below I-80 (which is already struggling) even worse.

So...kudos for Seattle not screwing up the rest of the state.

I'll second this... It's Seattle, they are free to their own folly..
06-03-2014 09:22 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
Not sure why any small business that pays hourly wages would ever open up in Seattle. However well-intentioned people might be with economic policy, you can't subvert basic free market principles. The market will adjust and the cities immediately adjacent to the Seattle city limits that aren't subject to the minimum wage policy will likely be the beneficiaries.
06-03-2014 09:35 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 09:14 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  what I can never understand is if the help was so significant, then why doesn't Seattle or the state of Washington own actual shares of Boeing? That would be a far better means of recouping the supposed help than enacting financially crippling labor practices.
By and by, the people demanding/imposing $15-minimum-wages are simply ignorant of basic economics. It's not a subject they understand or, frankly, much care about. All they know is that X (low minimum wage, Wal-Mart, CEO salaries, Right-to-Work, whatever) is Not Fair! And then they lash out in response to the Not-Fairness as best they can, with little-or-no awareness of the unintended consequences. Plus, the motivation behind these responses is 99% ideological and 1% pragmatic in the first place.

Finally, in places like Seattle (Obama ~279,000 votes; Romney ~46,000 votes), I think there is a subtle or "hidden" sentiment among a large portion of the people that nationwide fast-food chains (at the low end) and defense-related industries (at the high end) are Bad For Us, and if they leave, so what? I'm oversimplifying, of course, but I think that is a fair summary of how some people view the situation.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2014 09:39 AM by Native Georgian.)
06-03-2014 09:37 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 09:37 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(06-03-2014 09:14 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  what I can never understand is if the help was so significant, then why doesn't Seattle or the state of Washington own actual shares of Boeing? That would be a far better means of recouping the supposed help than enacting financially crippling labor practices.
By and by, the people demanding/imposing $15-minimum-wages are simply ignorant of basic economics. It's not a subject they understand or, frankly, much care about. All they know is that X (low minimum wage, Wal-Mart, CEO salaries, Right-to-Work, whatever) is Not Fair! And then they lash out in response to the Not-Fairness as best they can, with little-or-no awareness of the unintended consequences. Plus, the motivation behind these responses is 99% ideological and 1% pragmatic in the first place.

Finally, in places like Seattle (Obama ~279,000 votes; Romney ~46,000 votes), I think there is a subtle or "hidden" sentiment among a large portion of the people that nationwide fast-food chains (at the low end) and defense-related industries (at the high end) are Bad For Us, and if they leave, so what? I'm oversimplifying, of course, but I think that is a fair summary of how some people view the situation.

See, I'm not so willing to give them that pass. IMO, they are fully aware that the only way a business could absorb this kind of financial impact is to either reduce, increase prices or lose profits. What they want these businesses to lose willingly decide to make less money.

As to whether or not the PNW really wants Boeing around, I think the answer to that question was evident in how the IAM, Seattle and Washington react when Boeing opened up a new plant in Charleston, SC.
06-03-2014 10:26 AM
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blunderbuss Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-02-2014 07:03 PM)AngryAphid Wrote:  Hardee's and Carl's Jr. could become a thing of the past in Seattle.

Link.

Another gem of an article for our economic dumbasses that post here.
06-03-2014 10:26 AM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 10:26 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 07:03 PM)AngryAphid Wrote:  Hardee's and Carl's Jr. could become a thing of the past in Seattle.

Link.

Another gem of an article for our economic dumbasses that post here.

Seattle is good at running off their businesses. Only California does it better. I can tell you from first hand experience that other places in the country will be happy to take the businesses Seattle doesn't want. 04-cheers
06-03-2014 10:37 AM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
IMO, what you will see is many businesses that typically employ low wage workers will close up shop or move elsewhere. Ooops, no more jobs for those at the bottom of the labor pool.

That will create a void - eventually these same type of businesses will come back, only charging much higher prices to account for the increased labor costs.

Welcome $10 hamburgers......and those $15 minimum wage workers will wind up no better off than today. Kill jobs and jack up prices for basics. That will be the end result.

Glad I live nowhere near there, this will not help their economy. They can all "feel good" though.
06-03-2014 10:59 AM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 10:59 AM)Crebman Wrote:  IMO, what you will see is many businesses that typically employ low wage workers will close up shop or move elsewhere. Ooops, no more jobs for those at the bottom of the labor pool.

That will create a void - eventually these same type of businesses will come back, only charging much higher prices to account for the increased labor costs.

Welcome $10 hamburgers......and those $15 minimum wage workers will wind up no better off than today. Kill jobs and jack up prices for basics. That will be the end result.

Glad I live nowhere near there, this will not help their economy. They can all "feel good" though.

This is what happens when we empower dumbasses.
06-03-2014 11:02 AM
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dmacfour Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
Oklahoma City:

Quote:According to the Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce, the metropolitan area's economic output grew by 33 percent between 2001 and 2005 due chiefly to economic diversification. Its gross metropolitan product was $43.1 billion in 2005[65] and grew to $61.1 billion in 2009.

Seattle:

Quote:The city's gross metropolitan product was $231 billion in 2010, making it the 12th largest metropolitan economy in the United States.
06-03-2014 01:09 PM
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DaSaintFan Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
Who cares how big the city is Dmac... it has nothing to do with the fact that Seattle is in the process of suiciding itself with this wage increase for average people.

That being said, I could see one advantage to this. They MIGHT get higher quality jobs, but dont' expect them to be making much over minimum wage in that regards.

So there is a _chance_ (a small one) that they're driving out small businesses in hopes of getting larger ones?
06-03-2014 05:49 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-02-2014 09:55 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  ......hell, you can't pump your own gas in OR.....talk about nutso crapola......

I learned this the hard way almost 20 years ago. I pulled in to a station, was pumping my gas and a dude comes up to me and says in a stern voice, "Don't EVER do that again!!" I asked do what? He then explained that there are NO self serve gas pumps in Oregon - it's against the law!!. My thought was that these NW idiots were crazier than even I thought. Must have been a "gas jockey job protection" bill that sailed through the far left legislature. I told the dude that it was the nuttiest thing I had ever heard of and that they should go join the (then) 20th century, like the rest of the country.
06-03-2014 05:57 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
There was no danger I'd ever move to Oregon in the first place, but that sh*t about the gas-pumps is definitely another reason to stay away.
06-03-2014 06:04 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 05:57 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 09:55 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  ......hell, you can't pump your own gas in OR.....talk about nutso crapola......

I learned this the hard way almost 20 years ago. I pulled in to a station, was pumping my gas and a dude comes up to me and says in a stern voice, "Don't EVER do that again!!" I asked do what? He then explained that there are NO self serve gas pumps in Oregon - it's against the law!!. My thought was that these NW idiots were crazier than even I thought. Must have been a "gas jockey job protection" bill that sailed through the far left legislature. I told the dude that it was the nuttiest thing I had ever heard of and that they should go join the (then) 20th century, like the rest of the country.

Heh, I had the same experience driving through New Jersey once. I thought I was getting carjacked for a moment when the attendant ran up to my car when I pulled into the gas station. No self serve gas is unheard of everywhere except for New Jersey and Oregon.
06-03-2014 06:41 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
I am fine with high cost cities doing this sort of thing. No problem. Of course, they will certainly push many businesses into the outlying areas, but that is fine because we probably don't really need a McDonald's or a Wal-Mart in a high rent area.

However...

What many people don't realize is that pushing McDonald's and Wal-Mart to the suburbs is fine because they are all US areas, but you are also pushing manufacturers of low tech and labor intensive products into Mexico and Canada and China, while arguing that we need more jobs here. Some of those jobs (like auto assembly) aren't that low skill. We don't need to assemble autos in downtown LA, but we sure don't want that being done in Mexico.

I've got no problem with high density areas basically pushing low-brow businesses out of their areas. I just don't want this to become Federal where they aren't even welcome in a poor city with desperate unemployment. A $15 min wage doesn't help anyone if there isn't a job associated with it.

What will be interesting is what they do with things like cab companies and window washers and the like... where the employee may actually perform a service in downtown, but he is employed by a company in the 'burbs. I'd THINK that the rules of the HQ would apply as there is no 'office' in the area.
06-03-2014 06:41 PM
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DexterDevil Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
My superlib grandma said good, i said what about the small businesses that are going to go out of business, like mcdonalds, and she said "good, they wont be able to kill people anymore"... dumb***...

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06-03-2014 07:20 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 06:41 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I am fine with high cost cities doing this sort of thing. No problem. Of course, they will certainly push many businesses into the outlying areas, but that is fine because we probably don't really need a McDonald's or a Wal-Mart in a high rent area.

You just might be surprised. There's a McD's and CVS pharmacy on the Vegas Strip.
06-03-2014 07:32 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 01:09 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Oklahoma City:

Quote:According to the Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce, the metropolitan area's economic output grew by 33 percent between 2001 and 2005 due chiefly to economic diversification. Its gross metropolitan product was $43.1 billion in 2005[65] and grew to $61.1 billion in 2009.

Seattle:

Quote:The city's gross metropolitan product was $231 billion in 2010, making it the 12th largest metropolitan economy in the United States.

Who the f cares and what does this have to do with the debate? Are you another insecure Pacific Northwesterner that feels the need to constantly compare Seattle to Oklahoma City? I have never met a group so fragile.

That's right, we took your basketball team and Boeing. Deal with it.
06-03-2014 08:08 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Seattle raises minimum wage to $15 an hour
(06-03-2014 01:09 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  Oklahoma City:

Quote:According to the Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce, the metropolitan area's economic output grew by 33 percent between 2001 and 2005 due chiefly to economic diversification. Its gross metropolitan product was $43.1 billion in 2005[65] and grew to $61.1 billion in 2009.

Seattle:

Quote:The city's gross metropolitan product was $231 billion in 2010, making it the 12th largest metropolitan economy in the United States.

I noticed the growth in Oklahoma was called out but not in Seattle...
06-03-2014 09:06 PM
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