(06-02-2014 03:18 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 02:57 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You realize that DeBakey and Vanguard (both top 30 schools nationally) and HSPVA and Belaire are HISD schools? So is Lamar. These are good schools. Actually these are great schools. There are a lot of problem schools in HISD, but that's not the whole story. I know lots of people who move to Meyerland for the (HISD) schools. HISD has four high schools ranked in the top 20 in the state of Texas. An eye-popping 11 high schools in the top 75 (Cy Fair's highest ranked school comes in at 99).

Sure any inner city is going to have issues with homeless kids, kids that don't come from backgrounds where education is valued, don't have supportive parents, and those with language issues, but that's not the whole story in Houston. HISD, unlike any of its' big city peers, looks like its functional.

If you can move into Belaire's or Lamar's Zoned schools or get your kid into DeBakey, HSPVA, Vanguard, or Challenge, there's no need to spend 20k a year per kid to send them to Episcopal.

You mentioned PVA, but Lamar High also has an incredible theater department... add to this kids who want to get into UT or A&M who drop out of tougher schools to be in the top10% of weaker ones, or athletes who want to play in the more competitive leagues to get college scholarships.

Heart isn't listening to your facts and truth, Tom. Houston is hot and humid, and it can be hell if you live in Katy and work downtown, but if you work in the Energy corridor or closer to your home, it's not a bad commute at all. The challenge is for visitors who don't know where they are going or how (or when) to get there except the 'main' roads. Lots of people never get on the freeway in their daily lives, but if you want the benefits of 'the big city', you can get there.

How long would it take someone in Montgomery Al to see Professional Theater, Sports or (Classical) Music?

SMN, while I don't dispute your figures, surely you know you're towards the high end of things and someone moving states for a 15k teacher raise probably doesn't have your 'stuff' or living requirements.

Actually Montgomery does have a first class Sheakesperian Theatre. It also has a good lunch joint called Fillet and Vine and a minor league baseball team. That about does it for Montgomery, Ala. People in Alabama call it "fungom'ry" as a joke.

Yea, I grew up in Alabama and live in Houston. HISD is a valid choice for parents (even rich ones that can afford the 20k a year that private school costs).

You were correct about Houston traffic. It wasn't as bad as advertised circa 2006 or 2007. Unfortunately, Houston is such sh*thole that over 1 million people have decided to move to metro Houston in the last 8 years (heavy sarcasm). As a result, traffic is bad and is getting noticeably worse on a monthly basis. I was talking (compaining) to a council member about traffic and he told me "Tom, the problem is that we have 200,000 more cars on our roads every year. We simply can't build enough roads to accommodate that. Metro Houston now has more people than Wisconsin or Missouri or Minnesota. By 2020, we will have passed Massachusetts, Indiana, and Tennessee. When you go from 4.6 million to 7 million in 20 years, its causes issues.

(06-02-2014 03:23 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  The energy corridor is moving to The Woodlands. Exxon is leading the charge and the Woodlands is the fastest growing area of Tx. since Zero gutted NASA.

The Energy Corridor is on the Katy Freeway. If ConocoPhillips or Chevron or Shell or Texaco or Oxy or Marathon or any of the other Bigs was moving up there, then yes, it would be a major trend. But for now, its just Exxon. Exxon had more employees in various locations around Harris County (most notably around Greenspoint) than downtown

Exxon is moving to the Woodlands, where Anadarko is as well. But most companies aren't going to move up there, because their employees will likely just move to another company rather than move up to the Woodlands. Plenty of Energy jobs in Houston so its easy to switch. That's the problem with being out in the Woodlands....you'll induce a lot of your employees to leave..and they'll have plenty of options to do so.

Exxon is a special case because they have a career employment model. They order their employees around like they own them. It takes a special type of person to put up with that. I'm not one of them

Its not that the Woodlands is bad, its quite pleasant. Its just way out from the city and if you already are anchored somewhere else, its like moving to another distant place.

I sometimes have to 'reverse commute' out there. Its getting a lot worse, even on the toll road.

NASA is a welcome member of our community. But is it really worth the expense. Let Elon Musk deal with that.

(06-02-2014 10:05 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Do you get a full retirement? Uprooting with almost 30 years in is a lot different.

Texas teachers don't even get a decent retirement.

Really? Compared to what? I have a number of teachers in my family and the consensus is that TTRS is far better than most.

(06-02-2014 03:24 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  10 minutes...

If this is in response to how long it takes to get you to 'big city' events, then to quote you... You should set your sites a little higher.

Houston has the 3rd largest (and 3rd most active) Theater district in the country and probably 50+ 'community' groups in addition to the numerous school companies... For sports, it may not seem like it all the time but the Astros, Rockets and Texans are all major league, with a minor league baseball team in one of the suburbs... Houston has an almost STUPID number of restaurants and many of them are Zagats and Michelin 'stars'. Opera, Museums, massive Medical Center, 5 or 6 Universities, Zoo... all things that a city of 200,000 just can't do nearly as well (because of resources).

My comments wasn't meant as a knock on Montgomery as much as it was a reality check on comparing a town of 205,000 to a metro area of 6+mm. Houston has the resources of about 30 'cities' the size of Montgomery... and many people probably don't venture out of their local 'city' any more often than you do...

but they CAN.

(06-02-2014 06:03 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:05 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Do you get a full retirement? Uprooting with almost 30 years in is a lot different.

Texas teachers don't even get a decent retirement.

Really? Compared to what? I have a number of teachers in my family and the consensus is that TTRS is far better than most.

(06-02-2014 03:24 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  10 minutes...

If this is in response to how long it takes to get you to 'big city' events, then to quote you... You should set your sites a little higher.

Houston has the 3rd largest (and 3rd most active) Theater district in the country and probably 50+ 'community' groups in addition to the numerous school companies... For sports, it may not seem like it all the time but the Astros, Rockets and Texans are all major league, with a minor league baseball team in one of the suburbs... Houston has an almost STUPID number of restaurants and many of them are Zagats and Michelin 'stars'. Opera, Museums, massive Medical Center, 5 or 6 Universities, Zoo... all things that a city of 200,000 just can't do nearly as well (because of resources).

My comments wasn't meant as a knock on Montgomery as much as it was a reality check on comparing a town of 205,000 to a metro area of 6+mm. Houston has the resources of about 30 'cities' the size of Montgomery... and many people probably don't venture out of their local 'city' any more often than you do...

but they CAN.

You were the one who made the comparison. Trust me, I think it's every bit as stupid as you seem to think it is now.

I know all about Houston, it was home base for many years when my father was CFO of one of the oil companies y'all mentioned. Houston is a cesspool. But, sure, of course it has everything a city it's size would have in it.

But, given your ignorance of other cities not named Houston perhaps you should take a trip some time.

(06-02-2014 06:15 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  You were the one who made the comparison. Trust me, I think it's every bit as stupid as you seem to think it is now.

]I know all about Houston, it was home base for many years when my father was CFO of one of the oil companies y'all mentioned. Houston is a cesspool. But, sure, of course it has everything a city it's size would have in it.

But, given your ignorance of other cities not named Houston perhaps you should take a trip some time.

Then you were obviously stupid for saying you were 10 minutes from all of the amenities that Houston has since you now admit that you couldn't possibly have them.

FTR, with a crime index of 4 (on a 100 scale with 100 being safest)... I'd say your stated town isn't exactly Pleasantville, USA.

Your opinion of Houston is clearly in the minority. Perhaps it has to do with your age when you were here. For someone who knows all about Houston, you sure don't seem to know how to get around town.

I was a military brat and have lived in 15 states.... 4 different cities in Cali alone. Houston is far from perfect, but it is far better than most.

I've visited 46 states and 8 foreign countries.

I've got better things to do than argue with an immature child

(06-02-2014 06:27 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 06:15 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  You were the one who made the comparison. Trust me, I think it's every bit as stupid as you seem to think it is now.

]I know all about Houston, it was home base for many years when my father was CFO of one of the oil companies y'all mentioned. Houston is a cesspool. But, sure, of course it has everything a city it's size would have in it.

Then you were obviously stupid for saying you were 10 minutes from all of the amenities that Houston has since you now admit that you couldn't possibly have them.

FTR, with a crime index of 4 (on a 100 scale with 100 being safest)... I'd say your stated town isn't exactly Pleasantville, USA.

Your opinion of Houston is clearly in the minority. Perhaps it has to do with your age when you were here. For someone who knows all about Houston, you sure don't seem to know how to get around town.

I was a military brat and have lived in 15 states. Houston is far from perfect, but it is far better than most.

Whatever you say. Don't get your feelings hurt.

(06-02-2014 11:04 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  As long as it's only worth $30k there will be problems, 2% do-gooders and 98% people worth $30k.

Education will continue to suffer as long as education isn't drawing the most competitive and competent.

Perfectly stated. Think the percentage is higher than the 2% who are good folks, but otherwise, this is a perfect statement. Now, if there could be some real change in our political climate where we realize we've got to correct this before it gets completely out of control...

(06-02-2014 03:46 PM)smudge12 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 02:38 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:59 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  I honestly admire you. I always tell people that teaching was 10x tougher than engineering and by far the hardest job I ever had.

It was also extremely rewarding, especially when witnessing a student's "aha" moment.

so how does that matter....money drives the engine....tough doesn't equal anything other that misery unless the cash is made.....when are you fkrs gonna this shite out....it has nothing to do with virtue......just fkn gd fkn damn....are are you millenials this fkn stupid......jfc

and btw, you are sooooooo wrong relative to the curriculum of what it takes.....but good luck with that sentiment.....

and as an ad hoc educator, how would you even know what getting an engineering degree is about.....you opted out.....

I'm a Mechanical Engineer.

I didn't find a job directly out of college, so I was an assistant teacher for alternative and autistic children for a year (passing the 6-12 Math Praxis and receiving my temporary teaching license which I never ended up using). It was a tough, eye-opening, but rewarding experience that helped me grow as a person. I'd never trade what I learned that year for anything in the world.

But yes, in the end, Engineering $$$ > Teaching $$$. Money talks (plus I love engineering).

total cheers to that experience.....unfortunately, it's money that matters in the end....I am driving my daughter towards nursing (can't afford the 12 yr version....divorced in missippy).....she doesn't have my math skills....but has sooooo much common sense....which in reality, engineering is nothing more than applied common sense......kudos

all I care about is her not having to worry if the shite hits the fan.....

btw, I fed a programmer engineering info that had an autistic child back in my corp america days......that's a tough pill to swallow......

(06-02-2014 03:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Saw this online in my hometown's (NC) paper:

Lools like the proposal, if I'm reading it correctly, is to give NC teachers the option of more pay or continued tenure.

Quote:Senate Republicans unveiled a plan Wednesday that would provide North Carolina teachers with what lawmakers term the largest pay increase in state history.

The president of the North Carolina Association of Educators voiced concern, particularly with a provision that ties raises to dropping tenure rights.

The Senate’s $21 billion budget plan includes an average salary increase of $5,800 for teachers that would go into effect in July, said Sen. Buck Newton, R-Wilson. The budget plan also provides another $39 million for pay raises for other school personnel with principals and administrators receiving an average 2 percent pay increase and non-instructional employees receiving a $500 flat raise.

The teacher pay increases would push the state from being ranked 47th in the nation for teacher pay to 27th and boost North Carolina teacher pay higher than Virginia, Tennessee and South Carolina, Newton said.

Quote:The Senate proposal also repeals the loss of tenure in 2018 and lets teachers choose between such protection and higher pay, said Senate leader Phil Berger, R-Rockingham.

Teachers who decide to work on annual contracts for the 2014-15 school year will move to the new pay scale and receive a pay increase. Teachers choosing to keep their tenure would remain on the current pay schedule.

The big question with the Senate proposal is how are they going to pay for it? It appears to be robbing Peter to pay Paul. They will have to eliminate 7,400 teacher assistant positions, draw down 1/3 of the state's reserve fund, cut deeply into the school transportation budget, cut sharply the already depleted textbook fund, and create a number of unfunded mandates for local governments.

Then there is the so called 'tenure" issue. It isn't tenure in the traditional sense. It is merely due process protection for veteran teachers. It is a property rights issue and when they tried to get veteran teachers to give it up in return for a four year contract and a $500 bump for four years, the court ruled it unconstitutional. Now they are trying to get us to give it up for one year contracts and a bigger pay bump. I'm not sure if this will be constitutional either.

Regardless, along with this senate budget there is the governor's budget and an upcoming house budget. Throw the governor's out as they don't listen to him and we will have to see what comes from the two in the end. I seriously doubt it will end up being "the largest pay increase in state history."

(06-02-2014 07:43 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 03:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Saw this online in my hometown's (NC) paper:

Lools like the proposal, if I'm reading it correctly, is to give NC teachers the option of more pay or continued tenure.

Quote:Senate Republicans unveiled a plan Wednesday that would provide North Carolina teachers with what lawmakers term the largest pay increase in state history.

The president of the North Carolina Association of Educators voiced concern, particularly with a provision that ties raises to dropping tenure rights.

The Senate’s $21 billion budget plan includes an average salary increase of $5,800 for teachers that would go into effect in July, said Sen. Buck Newton, R-Wilson. The budget plan also provides another $39 million for pay raises for other school personnel with principals and administrators receiving an average 2 percent pay increase and non-instructional employees receiving a $500 flat raise.

The teacher pay increases would push the state from being ranked 47th in the nation for teacher pay to 27th and boost North Carolina teacher pay higher than Virginia, Tennessee and South Carolina, Newton said.

Quote:The Senate proposal also repeals the loss of tenure in 2018 and lets teachers choose between such protection and higher pay, said Senate leader Phil Berger, R-Rockingham.

Teachers who decide to work on annual contracts for the 2014-15 school year will move to the new pay scale and receive a pay increase. Teachers choosing to keep their tenure would remain on the current pay schedule.

The big question with the Senate proposal is how are they going to pay for it? It appears to be robbing Peter to pay Paul. They will have to eliminate 7,400 teacher assistant positions, draw down 1/3 of the state's reserve fund, cut deeply into the school transportation budget, cut sharply the already depleted textbook fund, and create a number of unfunded mandates for local governments.

Then there is the so called 'tenure" issue. It isn't tenure in the traditional sense. It is merely due process protection for veteran teachers. It is a property rights issue and when they tried to get veteran teachers to give it up in return for a four year contract and a $500 bump for four years, the court ruled it unconstitutional. Now they are trying to get us to give it up for one year contracts and a bigger pay bump. I'm not sure if this will be constitutional either.

Regardless, along with this senate budget there is the governor's budget and an upcoming house budget. Throw the governor's out as they don't listen to him and we will have to see what comes from the two in the end. I seriously doubt it will end up being "the largest pay increase in state history."

wow, you just stated the infrastructure is failing.....ace fkn frehley, shock me.....

(06-02-2014 08:18 PM)smudge12 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 06:38 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 03:46 PM)smudge12 Wrote:  I'm a Mechanical Engineer.

I didn't find a job directly out of college, so I was an assistant teacher for alternative and autistic children for a year (passing the 6-12 Math Praxis and receiving my temporary teaching license which I never ended up using). It was a tough, eye-opening, but rewarding experience that helped me grow as a person. I'd never trade what I learned that year for anything in the world.

But yes, in the end, Engineering $$$ > Teaching $$$. Money talks (plus I love engineering).

total cheers to that experience.....unfortunately, it's money that matters in the end....I am driving my daughter towards nursing (can't afford the 12 yr version....divorced in missippy).....she doesn't have my math skills....but has sooooo much common sense....which in reality, engineering is nothing more than applied common sense......kudos

all I care about is her not having to worry if the shite hits the fan.....

btw, I fed a programmer engineering info that had an autistic child back in my corp america days......that's a tough pill to swallow......

I wish your daughter the very best in her future endeavors; it's a tough but beautiful world out there. I'm fairly young so I don't have much life advice, but I'd tell her that good things come to those who are patient...and persistent.

I'm the rare parent that tells her the 'truth'......hell, they all have access to the internet for christ's sake.....that in itself precludes any type of harboring.....but that's just me.....thanks for the kind advice and you are wiser than most in your age group.....your parents obviously did a good job....

(06-02-2014 07:43 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 03:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Saw this online in my hometown's (NC) paper:

Lools like the proposal, if I'm reading it correctly, is to give NC teachers the option of more pay or continued tenure.

Quote:Senate Republicans unveiled a plan Wednesday that would provide North Carolina teachers with what lawmakers term the largest pay increase in state history.

The president of the North Carolina Association of Educators voiced concern, particularly with a provision that ties raises to dropping tenure rights.

The Senate’s $21 billion budget plan includes an average salary increase of $5,800 for teachers that would go into effect in July, said Sen. Buck Newton, R-Wilson. The budget plan also provides another $39 million for pay raises for other school personnel with principals and administrators receiving an average 2 percent pay increase and non-instructional employees receiving a $500 flat raise.

The teacher pay increases would push the state from being ranked 47th in the nation for teacher pay to 27th and boost North Carolina teacher pay higher than Virginia, Tennessee and South Carolina, Newton said.

Quote:The Senate proposal also repeals the loss of tenure in 2018 and lets teachers choose between such protection and higher pay, said Senate leader Phil Berger, R-Rockingham.

Teachers who decide to work on annual contracts for the 2014-15 school year will move to the new pay scale and receive a pay increase. Teachers choosing to keep their tenure would remain on the current pay schedule.

The big question with the Senate proposal is how are they going to pay for it? It appears to be robbing Peter to pay Paul. They will have to eliminate 7,400 teacher assistant positions, draw down 1/3 of the state's reserve fund, cut deeply into the school transportation budget, cut sharply the already depleted textbook fund, and create a number of unfunded mandates for local governments.

Then there is the so called 'tenure" issue. It isn't tenure in the traditional sense. It is merely due process protection for veteran teachers. It is a property rights issue and when they tried to get veteran teachers to give it up in return for a four year contract and a $500 bump for four years, the court ruled it unconstitutional. Now they are trying to get us to give it up for one year contracts and a bigger pay bump. I'm not sure if this will be constitutional either.

Regardless, along with this senate budget there is the governor's budget and an upcoming house budget. Throw the governor's out as they don't listen to him and we will have to see what comes from the two in the end. I seriously doubt it will end up being "the largest pay increase in state history."

Thanks for the info. I have family members that are teachers in NC. Haven't talked to them yet but am interested to see what they think of the Senate proposal.