(06-01-2014 12:38 AM)tigerjaws Wrote: All the GOOD docs I know donate their services one day/week or so for charity....I think that commendable....The fact that medicine has become more of a business to make $$$'s is the product of waste, fraud, and abuse due almost exclusively to way too much government and too much NON-MEDICAL interference with the patient-doc relationship.......Get those A-holes OUT of medical care and everything could be just dandy
Again are you going to donate your time too?
Are you going to work for less? That is what you are expecting doctors to do.
Medicine is expensive. Research costs money.
The super bright people aren't going to work for $50K a year (or whatever you deem is acceptable) and stay in medicine and medical research. They go to college for a really really long time (12+ years beyond high school) take on 100K in debt and you want them to work for charity? Are you going to pay for their student loans. They super bright will move into engineering, computer science, etc.
BTW I have two doctors in my immediate family. They both donate their time to docs without borders traveling the world providing medical care to developing countries. But their charity work SHOULD BE THEIR CHOICE not your mandate.
Last time I checked this was a free country. No forced labor.
I have one and play golf with so many others.....they aren't happy right now, and the family member is steering his daughter in another direction b/c of the bs that is happening today....
I still believe in some form of health system that will evolve from this abortion of an initial plan....right now it's just a motherfkr for those absorbed into this upheaval....
that was exactly my point. if you take financial benefit out of being a doc, smart kids won't go into medicine. There are plenty of other profitable things for smart kids to major in.
there's no money (to speak of) in teaching, and people still do it. there are still people who choose their profession because they believe they are doing good.
(06-01-2014 12:38 AM)tigerjaws Wrote: All the GOOD docs I know donate their services one day/week or so for charity....I think that commendable....The fact that medicine has become more of a business to make $$$'s is the product of waste, fraud, and abuse due almost exclusively to way too much government and too much NON-MEDICAL interference with the patient-doc relationship.......Get those A-holes OUT of medical care and everything could be just dandy
Again are you going to donate your time too?
Are you going to work for less? That is what you are expecting doctors to do.
Medicine is expensive. Research costs money.
The super bright people aren't going to work for $50K a year (or whatever you deem is acceptable) and stay in medicine and medical research. They go to college for a really really long time (12+ years beyond high school) take on 100K in debt and you want them to work for charity? Are you going to pay for their student loans. They super bright will move into engineering, computer science, etc.
BTW I have two doctors in my immediate family. They both donate their time to docs without borders traveling the world providing medical care to developing countries. But their charity work SHOULD BE THEIR CHOICE not your mandate.
Last time I checked this was a free country. No forced labor.
I have one and play golf with so many others.....they aren't happy right now, and the family member is steering his daughter in another direction b/c of the bs that is happening today....
I still believe in some form of health system that will evolve from this abortion of an initial plan....right now it's just a motherfkr for those absorbed into this upheaval....
that was exactly my point. if you take financial benefit out of being a doc, smart kids won't go into medicine. There are plenty of other profitable things for smart kids to major in.
there's no money (to speak of) in teaching, and people still do it. there are still people who choose their profession because they believe they are doing good.
Of course there are those who chose to teach even though there is no money in it. Teachers don't go to school for 12 years and take on 100K in debt. Teachers aren't paid well is because lots of people have the ability to get through the college of education.
Most who go into medicine do so because they have the academic ability to get into medical school, they are interested in medicine and genuinely want to help people. But they go to school for 12+ years (putting off making money) and take on 100K+ in debt to follow the needed course of study to become doctors. Doctors are paid well because very few people have the academic ability dedication and stamina to get through medical school.
Do you really think the best and brightest kids (the ones we want as our doctors) will be able to chose to take on that debt and go to school for that long if medicine isn't lucrative as it would leave them with no way to pay their loans off? Unless mommy and daddy are paying for medical school most kids, even the most altruistic ones, can't take on 100K+ in debt and then get out and make peanuts.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2014 05:11 PM by mptnstr@44.)
(06-01-2014 07:50 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote: Again are you going to donate your time too?
Are you going to work for less? That is what you are expecting doctors to do.
Medicine is expensive. Research costs money.
The super bright people aren't going to work for $50K a year (or whatever you deem is acceptable) and stay in medicine and medical research. They go to college for a really really long time (12+ years beyond high school) take on 100K in debt and you want them to work for charity? Are you going to pay for their student loans. They super bright will move into engineering, computer science, etc.
BTW I have two doctors in my immediate family. They both donate their time to docs without borders traveling the world providing medical care to developing countries. But their charity work SHOULD BE THEIR CHOICE not your mandate.
Last time I checked this was a free country. No forced labor.
I have one and play golf with so many others.....they aren't happy right now, and the family member is steering his daughter in another direction b/c of the bs that is happening today....
I still believe in some form of health system that will evolve from this abortion of an initial plan....right now it's just a motherfkr for those absorbed into this upheaval....
that was exactly my point. if you take financial benefit out of being a doc, smart kids won't go into medicine. There are plenty of other profitable things for smart kids to major in.
there's no money (to speak of) in teaching, and people still do it. there are still people who choose their profession because they believe they are doing good.
Of course there are those who chose to teach even though there is no money in it. Teachers don't go to school for 12 years and take on 100K in debt. Teachers aren't paid well is because lots of people have the ability to get through the college of education.
Most who go into medicine do so because they have the academic ability to get into medical school, they are interested in medicine and genuinely want to help people. But they go to school for 12+ years (putting off making money) and take on 100K+ in debt to follow the needed course of study to become doctors. Doctors are paid well because very few people have the academic ability dedication and stamina to get through medical school.
Do you really think the best and brightest kids (the ones we want as our doctors) will be able to chose to take on that debt and go to school for that long if medicine isn't lucrative as it would leave them with no way to pay their loans off? Unless mommy and daddy are paying for medical school most kids, even the most altruistic ones, can't take on 100K+ in debt and then get out and make peanuts.
OK, swell...I think most agree that there is too much gov't and other non-medicals interfering between you and your doc....That, somehow needs fixing....as for doc's salaries, 90% of docs live as upper middle class....No one goes into medicine thinking they are gonna make a bankroll ......If income were the driving force to become a Doc, NO one would go to med school. ....If making big $$$'s were a driving issue and your goal is money, business school, lawyering, management, banker-school and many others are there to make a bankroll........Docs are taught to treat the patient's disease/issues, and to NOT let money or patient's status matter or interfere with proper therapy....I promise you, the greatest problem with medicine in today's USA, is inference between the doc and his patient by gov't and non-medical people.
(06-01-2014 11:37 AM)stinkfist Wrote: I have one and play golf with so many others.....they aren't happy right now, and the family member is steering his daughter in another direction b/c of the bs that is happening today....
Funny thing is one of my nieces is smart as a whip (and getting ready to go to Alcorn State on a full-ride), basically turned down the regular medical field and decided on going into Veternary medicine because she (according to what my mom learned) won't have to put with all the headaches with things like Obamacare. (and my brother raised his side of the family on the very liberal side.)
(06-01-2014 07:50 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote: Again are you going to donate your time too?
Are you going to work for less? That is what you are expecting doctors to do.
Medicine is expensive. Research costs money.
The super bright people aren't going to work for $50K a year (or whatever you deem is acceptable) and stay in medicine and medical research. They go to college for a really really long time (12+ years beyond high school) take on 100K in debt and you want them to work for charity? Are you going to pay for their student loans. They super bright will move into engineering, computer science, etc.
BTW I have two doctors in my immediate family. They both donate their time to docs without borders traveling the world providing medical care to developing countries. But their charity work SHOULD BE THEIR CHOICE not your mandate.
Last time I checked this was a free country. No forced labor.
I have one and play golf with so many others.....they aren't happy right now, and the family member is steering his daughter in another direction b/c of the bs that is happening today....
I still believe in some form of health system that will evolve from this abortion of an initial plan....right now it's just a motherfkr for those absorbed into this upheaval....
that was exactly my point. if you take financial benefit out of being a doc, smart kids won't go into medicine. There are plenty of other profitable things for smart kids to major in.
there's no money (to speak of) in teaching, and people still do it. there are still people who choose their profession because they believe they are doing good.
Of course there are those who chose to teach even though there is no money in it. Teachers don't go to school for 12 years and take on 100K in debt. Teachers aren't paid well is because lots of people have the ability to get through the college of education.
Most who go into medicine do so because they have the academic ability to get into medical school, they are interested in medicine and genuinely want to help people. But they go to school for 12+ years (putting off making money) and take on 100K+ in debt to follow the needed course of study to become doctors. Doctors are paid well because very few people have the academic ability dedication and stamina to get through medical school.
Do you really think the best and brightest kids (the ones we want as our doctors) will be able to chose to take on that debt and go to school for that long if medicine isn't lucrative as it would leave them with no way to pay their loans off? Unless mommy and daddy are paying for medical school most kids, even the most altruistic ones, can't take on 100K+ in debt and then get out and make peanuts.
I think none of that will matter soon.
I think there is a good chance that ACA has already distorted the entire system to such a degree that the central government will, at some point, step in and either decide how much a medical degree is allowed to cost, or heavily subsidize it in return for 10 years of your life -- think: the service academies.
I think ACA was actually intended to compel subsequent problems that "only government can solve".
