(06-02-2014 04:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This fear of inflation from the minimum wage is not based on any reasonable description of how these minimum wage hikes will likely impact businesses, or the economy more generally. The potential impact of minimum wage hikes on the overall price level is simply too small to have any appreciable impact on inflation.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/14050

This one was written less than one month after the new minimum wage law took effect and it's 99% opinion. Logic isn't one of your strong points fit.

Are you saying this is false?

Past research on how business costs rise with minimum wage hikes indicates that a 10-percent minimum wage hike can be expected to produce a cost increase for the average business of less than one-tenth of one percent of their sales revenue. This cost figure includes three components. First, mandated raises: the raises employers must give their workers to meet the new wage floor. Second, “ripple-effect” raises: the raises employers give some workers to put their pay rates a bit above the new minimum in order to preserve the same wage hierarchy before and after minimum wage hike. And third, the higher payroll taxes employers must pay on their now-larger wage bill. If the average businesses wanted to completely cover the cost increase from a 10-percent minimum wage hike through higher prices, they would need to raise their prices by less than 0.1 percent.[1]A price increase of this size amounts to marking up a $100 price tag to $100.10.

(06-02-2014 04:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This fear of inflation from the minimum wage is not based on any reasonable description of how these minimum wage hikes will likely impact businesses, or the economy more generally. The potential impact of minimum wage hikes on the overall price level is simply too small to have any appreciable impact on inflation.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/14050

This one was written less than one month after the new minimum wage law took effect and it's 99% opinion. Logic isn't one of your strong points fit.

Are you saying this is false?

Past research on how business costs rise with minimum wage hikes indicates that a 10-percent minimum wage hike can be expected to produce a cost increase for the average business of less than one-tenth of one percent of their sales revenue.

Assuming this is factual... it's amusing to me is that you seem to think that's not significant enough dollar amount for business owners to reconsider the business model downstream of a minimum wage hike. For McDonald's that represents about $27M.

(06-02-2014 04:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This fear of inflation from the minimum wage is not based on any reasonable description of how these minimum wage hikes will likely impact businesses, or the economy more generally. The potential impact of minimum wage hikes on the overall price level is simply too small to have any appreciable impact on inflation.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/14050

This one was written less than one month after the new minimum wage law took effect and it's 99% opinion. Logic isn't one of your strong points fit.

And let's note very carefully what that article actually says--That a 2.6% increase in the minimum wage won't have a significant knock-on effect on inflation. Note that the increases being kicked around generally, from $7.25 to $10.10 or higher, are substantially larger than the 2.6% range. It's a misleading article, probably because the intent was to write a misleading article.

(06-02-2014 04:44 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This fear of inflation from the minimum wage is not based on any reasonable description of how these minimum wage hikes will likely impact businesses, or the economy more generally. The potential impact of minimum wage hikes on the overall price level is simply too small to have any appreciable impact on inflation.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/14050

This one was written less than one month after the new minimum wage law took effect and it's 99% opinion. Logic isn't one of your strong points fit.

Are you saying this is false?

Past research on how business costs rise with minimum wage hikes indicates that a 10-percent minimum wage hike can be expected to produce a cost increase for the average business of less than one-tenth of one percent of their sales revenue.

Assuming this is factual... it's amusing to me is that you seem to think that's not significant enough dollar amount for business owners to reconsider the business model downstream of a minimum wage hike. For McDonald's that represents about $27M.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm simply posting articles that dispute what some here seem to think will happen when the minimum wage increases.

(06-02-2014 04:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This fear of inflation from the minimum wage is not based on any reasonable description of how these minimum wage hikes will likely impact businesses, or the economy more generally. The potential impact of minimum wage hikes on the overall price level is simply too small to have any appreciable impact on inflation.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/14050

This one was written less than one month after the new minimum wage law took effect and it's 99% opinion. Logic isn't one of your strong points fit.

And let's note very carefully what that article actually says--That a 2.6% increase in the minimum wage won't have a significant knock-on effect on inflation. Note that the increases being kicked around generally, from $7.25 to $10.10 or higher, are substantially larger than the 2.6% range. It's a misleading article, probably because the intent was to write a misleading article.

From "truth-out.org"... who woulda thunk it?

(06-02-2014 04:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This fear of inflation from the minimum wage is not based on any reasonable description of how these minimum wage hikes will likely impact businesses, or the economy more generally. The potential impact of minimum wage hikes on the overall price level is simply too small to have any appreciable impact on inflation.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/14050

This one was written less than one month after the new minimum wage law took effect and it's 99% opinion. Logic isn't one of your strong points fit.

And let's note very carefully what that article actually says--That a 2.6% increase in the minimum wage won't have a significant knock-on effect on inflation. Note that the increases being kicked around generally, from $7.25 to $10.10 or higher, are substantially larger than the 2.6% range. It's a misleading article, probably because the intent was to write a misleading article.

Exactly.

This one is 2.6%, and the other fairy tale Fit is peddling refers repeatedly to a 10% increase. So Fit, multiply that silliness by around 3x factor instead (quick crude math, for the mathstapo), and you're closer to the proposals that are out there being bandied about.

Now, care to comment on that "negligible" impact? All the way up the food chain? Keep running off the jobs, it's worked wonders so far...

(06-02-2014 04:36 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:31 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:29 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Question - at a typical fast food restaurant (or similar establishment), are most of the workers making minimum wage, or are some of them making more than minimum wage (let's say they've worked there for a while) anyway?

another way to look at it.....does it really matter????

Yea, I don't know. I know when I started working at a gas station I made minimum wage for maybe a month, then I made a little more. A small increase in minimum wage would probably have minimal effect, though going to $15 would be an awful big increase.

totally agree...that's the issue....I am certain you didn't make a life career out of that......

as X has pointed out to ad nauseam, minimum wage in actuality is zero......

jack it to 15 bucks.....you better start thinking about a second mortgage to feed the chillens.....

this topic is crazy talk.....much crazier than I am it's unsustainable......

(06-02-2014 05:12 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:36 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:31 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:29 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Question - at a typical fast food restaurant (or similar establishment), are most of the workers making minimum wage, or are some of them making more than minimum wage (let's say they've worked there for a while) anyway?

another way to look at it.....does it really matter????

Yea, I don't know. I know when I started working at a gas station I made minimum wage for maybe a month, then I made a little more. A small increase in minimum wage would probably have minimal effect, though going to $15 would be an awful big increase.

totally agree...that's the issue....I am certain you didn't make a life career out of that......

as X has pointed out to ad nauseam, minimum wage in actuality is zero......

jack it to 15 bucks.....you better start thinking about a second mortgage to feed the chillens.....

this topic is crazy talk.....much crazier than I am it's unsustainable......

Yep, I was flush with cash at $3.50 an hour LOL.

(06-02-2014 05:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 05:12 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:36 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:31 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:29 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Question - at a typical fast food restaurant (or similar establishment), are most of the workers making minimum wage, or are some of them making more than minimum wage (let's say they've worked there for a while) anyway?

another way to look at it.....does it really matter????

Yea, I don't know. I know when I started working at a gas station I made minimum wage for maybe a month, then I made a little more. A small increase in minimum wage would probably have minimal effect, though going to $15 would be an awful big increase.

totally agree...that's the issue....I am certain you didn't make a life career out of that......

as X has pointed out to ad nauseam, minimum wage in actuality is zero......

jack it to 15 bucks.....you better start thinking about a second mortgage to feed the chillens.....

this topic is crazy talk.....much crazier than I am it's unsustainable......

Yep, I was flush with cash at $3.50 an hour LOL.

chief, I started at 2.20 in 79......have reinvented myself three times.....it's today's world.....it's either figure it out or suffer......oh well.....

About half of my coworkers would be getting a raise if 10.10 were the new minimum, although we no longer have anyone below 9.00. An 0.1% increase in revenue would be less than $10K which might cover about 2 months' worth of the increase.

(06-02-2014 10:02 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  About half of my coworkers would be getting a raise if 10.10 were the new minimum, although we no longer have anyone below 9.00. An 0.1% increase in revenue would be less than $10K which might cover about 2 months' worth of the increase.

your argument is sound.......boss would have to take a pay cut.....that's the problem....it's cost prohibitive....

pops told me something many moons ago....if there's no incentive to succeed, there's no incentive.....it's a fairly simple concept......

they don't teach shite like that anymore......it's gdm pathetic.....

(06-02-2014 10:02 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  About half of my coworkers would be getting a raise if 10.10 were the new minimum, although we no longer have anyone below 9.00. An 0.1% increase in revenue would be less than $10K which might cover about 2 months' worth of the increase.

Then they aren't working for minimum wage anyway. They're out of this discussion already. If it gets raised 30+% from 7.00 t 10$, who gets fired first? The Foreman with some skills, or the kid sweeping floors and trying to learn those skills?

That's a generic question, maybe your gig provides for both. Most places won't.

(06-02-2014 05:04 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This fear of inflation from the minimum wage is not based on any reasonable description of how these minimum wage hikes will likely impact businesses, or the economy more generally. The potential impact of minimum wage hikes on the overall price level is simply too small to have any appreciable impact on inflation.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/14050

This one was written less than one month after the new minimum wage law took effect and it's 99% opinion. Logic isn't one of your strong points fit.

And let's note very carefully what that article actually says--That a 2.6% increase in the minimum wage won't have a significant knock-on effect on inflation. Note that the increases being kicked around generally, from $7.25 to $10.10 or higher, are substantially larger than the 2.6% range. It's a misleading article, probably because the intent was to write a misleading article.

Exactly.

This one is 2.6%, and the other fairy tale Fit is peddling refers repeatedly to a 10% increase. So Fit, multiply that silliness by around 3x factor instead (quick crude math, for the mathstapo), and you're closer to the proposals that are out there being bandied about.

Now, care to comment on that "negligible" impact? All the way up the food chain? Keep running off the jobs, it's worked wonders so far...

It is my understanding that the increases would be incremental allowing for the market to adjust each time.

I don't recall anyone ever suggesting a one time 30% increase.

I'm glad you know more about the business owners' business than they do, fit.

Maybe you should reach out to them and give them some pointers.

(06-03-2014 11:05 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I'm glad you know more about the business owners' business than they do, fit.

Maybe you should reach out to them and give them some pointers.

I'm not talking about the business owner's business. I'm talking about what the government is proposing to do.

Don't you think our government has an obligation to make sure it's citizens are given fair pay?

(06-03-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:05 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I'm glad you know more about the business owners' business than they do, fit.

Maybe you should reach out to them and give them some pointers.

I'm not talking about the business owner's business. I'm talking about what the government is proposing to do.

Don't you think our government has an obligation to make sure it's citizens are given fair pay?

No, the govt is there through the EEOC; however, pay should be derived via a person's education, experience, and skill set and not through goverment decree.

(06-03-2014 11:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:05 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I'm glad you know more about the business owners' business than they do, fit.

Maybe you should reach out to them and give them some pointers.

I'm not talking about the business owner's business. I'm talking about what the government is proposing to do.

Don't you think our government has an obligation to make sure it's citizens are given fair pay?

No, the govt is there through the EEOC; however, pay should be derived via a person's education, experience, and skill set and not through goverment decree.

Then what would stop businesses from paying their employees like they do in China? A dollar a day to work in sweat shops.

We've evolved from slave labor. Why would we want to go back to those days.

Oh I forgot. Conservatives want to take the country back.

(06-03-2014 11:14 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:05 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I'm glad you know more about the business owners' business than they do, fit.

Maybe you should reach out to them and give them some pointers.

I'm not talking about the business owner's business. I'm talking about what the government is proposing to do.

Don't you think our government has an obligation to make sure it's citizens are given fair pay?

No, the govt is there through the EEOC; however, pay should be derived via a person's education, experience, and skill set and not through goverment decree.

Then what would stop businesses from paying their employees like they do in China?

The market. If Comany A is paying a techie $1Day and Company B is paying $40/hour who do you think is going to get the best employees. Yes, Company A will have cheaper products but those products will be crap and Company A will not be around very long.

(06-03-2014 10:56 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 05:04 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:47 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 04:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This fear of inflation from the minimum wage is not based on any reasonable description of how these minimum wage hikes will likely impact businesses, or the economy more generally. The potential impact of minimum wage hikes on the overall price level is simply too small to have any appreciable impact on inflation.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/14050

This one was written less than one month after the new minimum wage law took effect and it's 99% opinion. Logic isn't one of your strong points fit.

And let's note very carefully what that article actually says--That a 2.6% increase in the minimum wage won't have a significant knock-on effect on inflation. Note that the increases being kicked around generally, from $7.25 to $10.10 or higher, are substantially larger than the 2.6% range. It's a misleading article, probably because the intent was to write a misleading article.

Exactly.

This one is 2.6%, and the other fairy tale Fit is peddling refers repeatedly to a 10% increase. So Fit, multiply that silliness by around 3x factor instead (quick crude math, for the mathstapo), and you're closer to the proposals that are out there being bandied about.

Now, care to comment on that "negligible" impact? All the way up the food chain? Keep running off the jobs, it's worked wonders so far...

It is my understanding that the increases would be incremental allowing for the market to adjust each time.

I don't recall anyone ever suggesting a one time 30% increase.

Your understanding of economics is horrid. You're right about the market adjusting to minimum wage increases, it's just not going to adjust in the direction you think it would.

(06-03-2014 11:20 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:14 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:11 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 11:05 AM)Smaug Wrote:  I'm glad you know more about the business owners' business than they do, fit.
Maybe you should reach out to them and give them some pointers.

I'm not talking about the business owner's business. I'm talking about what the government is proposing to do.
Don't you think our government has an obligation to make sure it's citizens are given fair pay?

No, the govt is there through the EEOC; however, pay should be derived via a person's education, experience, and skill set and not through goverment decree.

Then what would stop businesses from paying their employees like they do in China?

The market. If Comany A is paying a techie $1Day and Company B is paying $40/hour who do you think is going to get the best employees. Yes, Company A will have cheaper products but those products will be crap and Company A will not be around very long.

And in that economic reality lies the solution to our trade deficit. Let China pay people $1/day to make cheap consumer goods. Let us pay people $40/hour to make top-end, expensive producer goods, so we compete with Germany instead of China.