Jon Solomon @JonSolomonCBS · 7m
Mike Slive: If autonomy doesn't pass, SEC will want a "Division 4." Slive says he's "somewhat optimistic" it will pass.

Jon Solomon ‏@JonSolomonCBS ·7m
Slive: Even in a Division 4, "we don't want to disrupt championships" and still be part of NCAA Tournament.

Brett McMurphy ‏@McMurphyESPN ·9 mins
Mike Slive in a Division 4: “you would create rules for your own division"

Jon Solomon ‏@JonSolomonCBS ·9 mins
Slive: "It would be a disappointment and a mistake" not to adopt the autonomy model.

Translation:

We are shocked to discover that there are roughly 200 school in Division I who don't give a damn if we leave since they don't play high level football and cannot afford any of our reforms.

NCAA D4 is the best answer for the P5 and the NCAA. P5 gets it's FB playoff autonomy and the NCAA gets to keep the basketball tournament (ie it's money)

(05-30-2014 01:33 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  NCAA D4 is the best answer for the P5 and the NCAA. P5 gets it's FB playoff autonomy and the NCAA gets to keep the basketball tournament (ie it's money)

I have always thought this is what would happen. l

I beginning to begrudgingly like Mr. Slive.

(05-30-2014 01:33 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  NCAA D4 is the best answer for the P5 and the NCAA. P5 gets it's FB playoff autonomy and the NCAA gets to keep the basketball tournament (ie it's money)

Except you can't have it both ways. That's why it's a bluff. They can't form their own division and keep the basketball tourney.

(05-30-2014 01:40 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 01:33 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  NCAA D4 is the best answer for the P5 and the NCAA. P5 gets it's FB playoff autonomy and the NCAA gets to keep the basketball tournament (ie it's money)

Except you can't have it both ways. That's why it's a bluff. They can't form their own division and keep the basketball tourney.

Not true at all. FB subdivision has no bearing on the basketball tournament.

(05-30-2014 01:41 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 01:40 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 01:33 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  NCAA D4 is the best answer for the P5 and the NCAA. P5 gets it's FB playoff autonomy and the NCAA gets to keep the basketball tournament (ie it's money)

Except you can't have it both ways. That's why it's a bluff. They can't form their own division and keep the basketball tourney.

Not true at all. FB subdivision has no bearing on the basketball tournament.

He's not talking just football. Men's basketball is a huge issue, too. Note that all the lawsuits include it. The autonomy rules aren't just for football - they're for all sports.

(05-30-2014 01:40 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 01:33 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  NCAA D4 is the best answer for the P5 and the NCAA. P5 gets it's FB playoff autonomy and the NCAA gets to keep the basketball tournament (ie it's money)

Except you can't have it both ways. That's why it's a bluff. They can't form their own division and keep the basketball tourney.

Why not?

(05-30-2014 01:40 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 01:33 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  NCAA D4 is the best answer for the P5 and the NCAA. P5 gets it's FB playoff autonomy and the NCAA gets to keep the basketball tournament (ie it's money)

Except you can't have it both ways. That's why it's a bluff. They can't form their own division and keep the basketball tourney.

I'm pretty sure what Slive is talking about is "Division 4" as a subdivision of Division I, which would leave the NCAA's March Madness cash cow intact. It would be a subdivision for football purposes, like FBS and FCS are now.

If Slive was talking about a separate division that was not part of Division I, then that would be the doomsday threat. I have no doubt that the March Madness TV contract allows CBS/Turner to cancel, and stop paying that $770 million/year to the NCAA, if the P5 exit Division I.

Without that annual windfall, the NCAA could only keep funding its operations at all levels for as long as they still have money in the nine-figure stash that they have built by skimming a lot of the CBS/Turner money off the top every year -- unless the NCAA starts heavily taxing its members to pay for NCAA championships and NCAA bureaucracy.

Jon Solomon ‏@JonSolomonCBS ·7m
Slive: Even in a Division 4, "we don't want to disrupt championships" and still be part of NCAA Tournament.

You can't have it both ways Slive.
Thats why this is all idle threats from Big Ten and SEC. This is also why they are stomping up and down and shouting and cursing and pouting and making threats to anybody who will listen - because they sense they won't get their way. Otherwise there would be no need for all of this jabbering. Boo-hoo.

No Division 4 and stay in NCAA with basketball, baseball, hockey, etc Championships. If they want out, they need to breakaway from NCAA all together and twist in the wind on their own. There would also be viewer backlash from such a selfish move and possible tax issues and lawsuits. They won't leave the NCAA because they are not stupid.

Is the PAC-12 Commish the only commish with class who is not threatning and whining every 5 minutes? Can you imagine what a break away would be for them? All non-conference games would be 1,500+ miles away east of the Mississippi. PAC-12 isn't stupid, they know they absoulutely need the NCAA in other sports.

They can't just "create" a D4 unless all the other schools vote to allow it which they may not, so their only 2 options is to be happy with all of the manipulative gains they've already extorted, or go leave the NCAA all together which wont happen. Figures they want their cake and eat it too.
.

I have a venomous hatred for the $EC.

Sure you can have it both ways.

You can have Division I FCS, Division I FBS, and Division I FB$

But good luck with the outcome if you do. You've damaged your TV partners profitable little operation and you've lowered the fan and TV interest in your FCS filler game and your two FBS filler games.

If they can't get autonomy passed how do they get Division IV passed?

Translation: wahhhhh.

(05-30-2014 01:59 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  If they can't get autonomy passed how do they get Division IV passed?

Winner. They can't, and they know leaving NCAA would be terrible for them especially the PAC12. So instead they pout and mope. There's a reason why the PAC12 Commish isnt popping off to the media and CBS minions.

.

Don't you still need the same NCAA Division I votes to create a D4 as you would need to create autonomy? The D1 schools voting against this don't want autonomous rules (which would apply to basketball players as well as football players). I could see FBS as a whole break away from the NCAA---that requires no votes from D1. With all of FBS and perhaps a few major basketball conferences (A-10, Big-East) you could field a very solid 64 team post season bracket. The G5 could each take a couple basketball only members to pick up the handful of major programs that TV would like to have included in the top basketball playoff that are not included in FBS/Big East/A-10.

(05-30-2014 01:57 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Sure you can have it both ways.

You can have Division I FCS, Division I FBS, and Division I FB$

But good luck with the outcome if you do. You've damaged your TV partners profitable little operation and you've lowered the fan and TV interest in your FCS filler game and your two FBS filler games.

FB$, that's the right name for it.

I think you're overestimating the damage to the appeal of their non-conference football games, though. With rare exceptions that are mostly limited to longstanding local rivalries (e.g. Colorado vs. Colorado State), the interest in Goliath vs. David regular season games is already low among the Goliath fanbases. Season ticket holders barely tolerate those games. It would be a different story if nearly all of those games were highly competitive games pitting P5 teams against the top 10-20 percent of G5 teams, but that's not the case.

(05-30-2014 01:59 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  If they can't get autonomy passed how do they get Division IV passed?

If they are serious about the rules changes, then I think this is a message that one of three things will happen and it's up to the NCAA to decide which one.

1. Autonomous rules within current set-up
2. Division 4 within NCAA set-up (likely continuation of current March Madness even two sides competing with different rules as smaller schools won't want to leave and bigger schools won't want too much change at once).
3. Power school separation from the NCAA.

The power programs clearly do not want #3 as it is the messiest, but with the emphasis they've put on getting the autonomy I think they'd do it if choices #1 and #2 were rejected. Of course, their willingness to do it is what will ensure #1 or #2 (likely #1) does pass.

(05-30-2014 02:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Don't you still need the same NCAA Division I votes to create a D4 as you would need to create autonomy? The D1 schools voting against this don't want autonomous rules (which would apply to basketball players as well as football players). I could see FBS as a whole break away from the NCAA---that requires no votes from D1. With all of FBS and perhaps a few major basketball conferences (A-10, Big-East) you could field a very solid 64 team post season bracket. The G5 could each take a couple basketball only members to pick up the handful of major programs that TV would like to have included in the top basketball playoff that are not included in FBS/Big East/A-10.

Yup. And if it's a full new division, all three divisions of the NCAA would need to approve.