http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogp...&id=101601

The main thing I got out of these responses in this link is that Big Ten fans are not used to the terms P5 and G5 conferences. Often referring to the P5 instead as either the Big 5 or sometimes even calling the P5 the group of 5 instead.

I am not saying they are right or wrong. I just thought this was settled. Guess I was wrong.

(05-30-2014 12:42 PM)goofus Wrote:  http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogp...&id=101601

The main thing I got out of these responses in this link is that Big Ten fans are not used to the terms P5 and G5 conferences. Often referring to the P5 instead as either the Big 5 or sometimes even calling the P5 the group of 5 instead.

I am not saying they are right or wrong. I just thought this was settled. Guess I was wrong.

To be fair, it does seem a little random. They both have 5 conferences, and "power" numbers tend to fluctuate (Big 12, Big 10).

The term "BCS" made a lot more intuitive sense.

(05-30-2014 12:42 PM)goofus Wrote:  http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogp...&id=101601

The main thing I got out of these responses in this link is that Big Ten fans are not used to the terms P5 and G5 conferences. Often referring to the P5 instead as either the Big 5 or sometimes even calling the P5 the group of 5 instead.

I am not saying they are right or wrong. I just thought this was settled. Guess I was wrong.

P5 and G5 are really only widely known on places like this. They'll come into greater usage, but remember last year we still had AQ and non-AQ and that was just as often called BCS or non-BCS.

The Big 5 is something else...

There are still a lot of folks that wouldn't consider, for instance, UNLV football to be Division 1. Those who root for schools in power conferences don't really need to worry about the details.

Conversely, those that are on the other side of the equation tend to be much more aware of the distinction. How many ECU fans have flooded this and other message boards singing the praises of their university and of a desire to join a power conference?

It's just how it work.

Lord, when I was growing up in Big Ten country, lo those many years ago, I only has a firm grasp on the ten members of the Big Ten (back then) and the eight members of the PAC-8. Not only would I have been unable to tell you which conference Clemson or Auburn were in, I would have been unable to tell you which state either one was in ... just that they were both somewhere down in the South. We just weren't a household that got Sports Illustrated.

That was, of course, before ESPN was founded, and well before I lived in Knoxville for long enough to know that for some people the Big Game comes in October rather than November.

Larger numbers of people know more schools from more conferences now in a very large part because ESPN tells them. And since ESPN does not spend much time on the P5/Go5 stuff, awareness has not spread as much.

The Go5 will mostly get to be more broadly recognized if the race for the Go5 spot at an Access Bowl starts to be a thing.

(05-30-2014 11:19 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Lord, when I was growing up in Big Ten country, lo those many years ago, I only has a firm grasp on the ten members of the Big Ten (back then) and the eight members of the PAC-8. Not only would I have been unable to tell you which conference Clemson or Auburn were in, I would have been unable to tell you which state either one was in ... just that they were both somewhere down in the South.

That was, of course, before ESPN was founded, and well before I lived in Knoxville for long enough to know that for some people the Big Game comes in October rather than November.

Not sure what part of the Midwest you were from Bruce (I assume Ohio) but there are still quite a few like that-- particularly in Central and Northern Ohio. As someone else alluded to most people are very casual college sports fans and Buckeye fans are as guilty as anyone in the country in regards to having blinders on.

About 10 years or so ago a colleague of mine and I attended a seminar out in California that happened to take place around the start of the NCAA basketball tournament. We met some business associates out there from Lexington, KY who were talking about how disappointed they were in UK that year. My colleague (an OSU alum and huge fan) commented that they should be happy a school like theirs made the tournament. However, he made the point it was ok for him to be upset that OSU barely made the tournament given that they had such great tradition.

The scary part is he was freaking serious. He had no idea about the history of Kentucky basketball. I had to point it out to him later. This wasn't some young hayseed, the man was in his 50s and was highly educated.

(05-30-2014 12:42 PM)goofus Wrote:  http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogp...&id=101601

The main thing I got out of these responses in this link is that Big Ten fans are not used to the terms P5 and G5 conferences. Often referring to the P5 instead as either the Big 5 or sometimes even calling the P5 the group of 5 instead.

I am not saying they are right or wrong. I just thought this was settled. Guess I was wrong.

After the Power 6 stopped being 6, the name changed as follows:

It was originally:
P5 = Power 5 = Group of 5 = G5
G5 = Gang of 5 = g5

I personally like g5 v. G5 more than G5 v. P5 and think that this forum should have stuck with the original naming convention.

I'm not sure the P5 and G5 will catch on outside of boards like this. I've heard ADs use "contract" conferences (i.e. contracts with the bowls in the playoff). Now with the NCAA reorganization stuff, I wonder if it won't be something else that relates to the specifics of however that codification is worded.

I've heard "Big Five" used around here in the Chicago area.

(05-31-2014 10:30 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I'm not sure the P5 and G5 will catch on outside of boards like this. I've heard ADs use "contract" conferences (i.e. contracts with the bowls in the playoff). Now with the NCAA reorganization stuff, I wonder if it won't be something else that relates to the specifics of however that codification is worded.

I don't see a lot of verbiage pushed for recognizing contract and non-contract conferences.

The BCS started with BCS and non-BCS conferences. Then every FBS conference was considered part of the BCS and the terminology moved to AQ and non-AQ. The CFP system was initially to eliminate the AQ provision with 6 bowl games and a playoff among the Top 4.

To get the B1G/PAC to sign off on it they were allowed to keep the Rose Bowl as a traditional contracted matchup. That opened the door for the the SEC, B12 and ACC to land market based contracts. The AAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC, MAC didn't have the value to land a market based contract. They tried with a 7th bowl game but the valuations didn't make it. Recognizing this problem for the smaller football conferences they made an AQ to an access bowl for the highest rated champion.

Some of the crap we are hearing from B1G and SEC coaches wanting an autobid to the playoff is unfounded because autobids are a move back in the other direction that brought the law suits on from the non-AQ's. I can see the playoff pushing on to 6 or 8 teams with semifinals hosted at neutral sites giving more access but not with AQs.

If you move to an 8 team playoff with 8 CFP bowls the debate from the G5 side will be whether an undefeated Northern Illinois belongs in the 8 team playoff or just an access bowl based on resume which I think is a healthy debate. At least undefeated team is going to get left out of an access bowl which is a crime IMO.

(05-31-2014 10:30 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  I'm not sure the P5 and G5 will catch on outside of boards like this. I've heard ADs use "contract" conferences (i.e. contracts with the bowls in the playoff). Now with the NCAA reorganization stuff, I wonder if it won't be something else that relates to the specifics of however that codification is worded.

I don't know how the "big five" / "power five" will end up being called.

Its the fact that it was the "Group of Five" in CFP negotiations that is getting a pile of money from the big boys to split up among themselves and one of the twelve spots in the six big bowls for the best of their five champions puts Group of Five among the terms on the inside track. Nothing similar came out of the CFP negotiations for the other five FBS conferences, since they were not negotiating as a Group, they were each negotiating on their own behalf. Each have a big enough audience that a lot of individualized reporting was done aimed at the supporters of each of those conference.

But "Contract" and "Access" conferences is certainly another possibility.

g5/G5 is too fine a distinction to have much of a shot.

Sometime in November we'll learn what the big sports infotainment providers settle on, as they start talking about who will get the Access Bowl slot, and likely by the same time a year later the terminology will be entrenched.

(05-30-2014 11:39 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Not sure what part of the Midwest you were from Bruce (I assume Ohio) but there are still quite a few like that-- particularly in Central and Northern Ohio. As someone else alluded to most people are very casual college sports fans and Buckeye fans are as guilty as anyone in the country in regards to having blinders on.

Central Ohio ~ outside of Columbus at the time (though now outer suburban Columbus has spilled out over it, like a batch of untended sour dough overflowing the bowl it is in) ... in our country football conference, nine of ten schools had the OSU fight song as their fight song ~ I think the other one had Notre Dame's.

Quote: About 10 years or so ago a colleague of mine and I attended a seminar out in California that happened to take place around the start of the NCAA basketball tournament. We met some business associates out there from Lexington, KY who were talking about how disappointed they were in UK that year. My colleague (an OSU alum and huge fan) commented that they should be happy a school like theirs made the tournament. However, he made the point it was ok for him to be upset that OSU barely made the tournament given that they had such great tradition.

The scary part is he was freaking serious.

Well, I went to college in SW Ohio, and there was a guy from Louisville in my same program, so by college at least I was a little less oblivious to basketball in the southern parts of the Ohio River Valley. But in college I was more into my original pro sports teams from growing up in the countryside of Central Ohio, the Reds and the Bengals. From the time I saw the Buckeyes in the Horseshoe in the 70's, the year my mom got Buckeyes tickets as an OSU senior, the next college game I saw was in the 90's as a grad student at UT, watching the Vols beat up on cupcakes.

But growing up, honest to god, if you had given me a hint and told me one is in South Carolina and one in Alabama, I'd still only have a 50/50 shot telling you were Auburn and Clemson were located. As far as I knew, the Iron Bowl would have been a bowl ... that happened to be made out of iron. It just wasn't something that came up very much on the local TV news or on radio on the Big 700, Voice of the Reds, Bengals, and somebodies-I-forget.

When I lived in Ohio, it never ceased to amaze me how knowledgeable everyone was about all of Ohio State's players. They could name their HS, their measurables, their credentials, all of it. They could also tell you a ton about the other teams in the B1G - especially Ohio kids playing for other B1G schools. That was incredible and I loved that about them. However, those exact same people never knew ANYTHING about any other school or league. That was insanely paradoxical and myopic.

I remember once being in a bar and there was some random B1G game on all of the TVs - I want to say Illinois/Indiana or something like that. I asked the bartender to put on the Miami/Florida State game - No. 1 vs. No. 2 in the nation at the time (this was during the wide right era).

The bartender looked at ME like I was nuts to even ask that ONE of the televisions be changed to a game involving an in-state rivalry and was for the top ranking in college football. He said to me flat out, "Who the hell cares about Florida State or Miami?" I just stood there slack jawed. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Then the others started with, "Those teams both suck. They wouldn't last in the Big Ten." It was surreal.

Later that night, I was at a party with friends and recounting the story. They took the BARTENDER'S side and questioned how good FSU and Miami really were. Then, bizarrely, the argument turned into a debate over who was better between Andy Katzenmoyer and Ray Lewis.

I remain close with most of those dudes all these years later and regularly remind them of that conversation when discussing the insanely provincial nature of B1G fans.

(05-30-2014 02:37 PM)SouthPhillyFall Wrote:  The Big 5 is something else...

Big 5 basketball is awesome. There are some hellacious rivalry games in that group.

(05-30-2014 01:39 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 12:42 PM)goofus Wrote:  http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogp...&id=101601

The main thing I got out of these responses in this link is that Big Ten fans are not used to the terms P5 and G5 conferences. Often referring to the P5 instead as either the Big 5 or sometimes even calling the P5 the group of 5 instead.

I am not saying they are right or wrong. I just thought this was settled. Guess I was wrong.

To be fair, it does seem a little random. They both have 5 conferences, and "power" numbers tend to fluctuate (Big 12, Big 10).

The term "BCS" made a lot more intuitive sense.

Intuitive is a funny way of putting that considering that all of the FBS conferences were BCS conferences and so when people called the AQ conferences "BCS" conferences they were actually using it wrong. It was really AQ and non-AQ but instead many people erroneously called it BCS and non-BCS.

(05-31-2014 10:20 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  When I lived in Ohio, it never ceased to amaze me how knowledgeable everyone was about all of Ohio State's players. They could name their HS, their measurables, their credentials, all of it. They could also tell you a ton about the other teams in the B1G - especially Ohio kids playing for other B1G schools. That was incredible and I loved that about them. However, those exact same people never knew ANYTHING about any other school or league. That was insanely paradoxical and myopic.

I remember once being in a bar and there was some random B1G game on all of the TVs - I want to say Illinois/Indiana or something like that. I asked the bartender to put on the Miami/Florida State game - No. 1 vs. No. 2 in the nation at the time (this was during the wide right era).

The bartender looked at ME like I was nuts to even ask that ONE of the televisions be changed to a game involving an in-state rivalry and was for the top ranking in college football. He said to me flat out, "Who the hell cares about Florida State or Miami?" I just stood there slack jawed. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Then the others started with, "Those teams both suck. They wouldn't last in the Big Ten." It was surreal.

Later that night, I was at a party with friends and recounting the story. They took the BARTENDER'S side and questioned how good FSU and Miami really were. Then, bizarrely, the argument turned into a debate over who was better between Andy Katzenmoyer and Ray Lewis.

I remain close with most of those dudes all these years later and regularly remind them of that conversation when discussing the insanely provincial nature of B1G fans.

I had an East Carolina fan essentially call me a liar because he could not believe me when I said nobody in my part of Ohio had really heard of ECU and would be likely to think of them as a lower division school. Hopefully stories like these will let non-Big10 related areas know that yes the people here can be very clueless about schools outside of their immediate area.

The names are actually "Mid-major" and, uh, nevermind.

(06-01-2014 09:00 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  The names are actually "Mid-major" and, uh, nevermind.

Mebbe. Though basketball reporting has got that muddled, since its often applied to programs rather than conferences. But "Major football conference" and "mid-major football conference" is one term that could emerge. BCS (as a shorthand for BCS AQ) suggests "CFP conference" and "Access conference", even though formally all FBS schools are in the hunt for selection for the CFP.

When its something they have to talk about, they'll settle on a term. As the "BCS" example shows, there's no particular reason to expect it to be an accurate term.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

(05-31-2014 11:25 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  I had an East Carolina fan essentially call me a liar because he could not believe me when I said nobody in my part of Ohio had really heard of ECU and would be likely to think of them as a lower division school.

Yeah, between no media coverage in the local sports reporting when people are watching to see the weather and the scores, combined with the limited attention ESPN pays to teams outside the P5 and high growth cities few and far between enough that they draw most of their in-migration from the Big Ten footprint itself ... unless they remember seeing a team play in a bowl game, its easy to be fuzzy about the details of the SEC and the ACC and have no clue about most of the southeastern Go5 schools.

Except Appalachian State, of course, though many would not realize its stepping up: "Do you remember that time Appalachian State beat the Wolverines (or in Central Ohio, That School Up North)?"

(05-31-2014 10:20 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  When I lived in Ohio, it never ceased to amaze me how knowledgeable everyone was about all of Ohio State's players. They could name their HS, their measurables, their credentials, all of it. They could also tell you a ton about the other teams in the B1G - especially Ohio kids playing for other B1G schools. That was incredible and I loved that about them. However, those exact same people never knew ANYTHING about any other school or league. That was insanely paradoxical and myopic.

I remember once being in a bar and there was some random B1G game on all of the TVs - I want to say Illinois/Indiana or something like that. I asked the bartender to put on the Miami/Florida State game - No. 1 vs. No. 2 in the nation at the time (this was during the wide right era).

The bartender looked at ME like I was nuts to even ask that ONE of the televisions be changed to a game involving an in-state rivalry and was for the top ranking in college football. He said to me flat out, "Who the hell cares about Florida State or Miami?" I just stood there slack jawed. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Then the others started with, "Those teams both suck. They wouldn't last in the Big Ten." It was surreal.

Later that night, I was at a party with friends and recounting the story. They took the BARTENDER'S side and questioned how good FSU and Miami really were. Then, bizarrely, the argument turned into a debate over who was better between Andy Katzenmoyer and Ray Lewis.

I remain close with most of those dudes all these years later and regularly remind them of that conversation when discussing the insanely provincial nature of B1G fans.

things are slowly changing but it wasn't that long ago that a typical B1G fan priority list went this way:

1. Win the B1G.
2. Win the Rose Bowl



3. Win a National Title....i guess


it's laughable and sad at the same time

I remember the first year I lived in Ohio, I moved there from Missouri, (then B12 country). And a Buckeye friend was telling me all about the Rose Bowl and blah blah blah. I told him innocently that nobody in Missouri gave two craps about the Rose Bowl and that the Orange Bowl was bigger there (B12 champ) and that in Arkansas, the Cotton Bowl was bigger (SWC days). He looked at me in total stunned silence and didn't believe me...LOL poor sap

(05-31-2014 10:20 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  When I lived in Ohio, it never ceased to amaze me how knowledgeable everyone was about all of Ohio State's players. They could name their HS, their measurables, their credentials, all of it. They could also tell you a ton about the other teams in the B1G - especially Ohio kids playing for other B1G schools. That was incredible and I loved that about them. However, those exact same people never knew ANYTHING about any other school or league. That was insanely paradoxical and myopic.

I remember once being in a bar and there was some random B1G game on all of the TVs - I want to say Illinois/Indiana or something like that. I asked the bartender to put on the Miami/Florida State game - No. 1 vs. No. 2 in the nation at the time (this was during the wide right era).

The bartender looked at ME like I was nuts to even ask that ONE of the televisions be changed to a game involving an in-state rivalry and was for the top ranking in college football. He said to me flat out, "Who the hell cares about Florida State or Miami?" I just stood there slack jawed. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Then the others started with, "Those teams both suck. They wouldn't last in the Big Ten." It was surreal.

Later that night, I was at a party with friends and recounting the story. They took the BARTENDER'S side and questioned how good FSU and Miami really were. Then, bizarrely, the argument turned into a debate over who was better between Andy Katzenmoyer and Ray Lewis.

I remain close with most of those dudes all these years later and regularly remind them of that conversation when discussing the insanely provincial nature of B1G fans.

Lol.... growing up I used to hear people say "Who is this big east conference and what the hell are these analysts smoking picking some of their teams over the ACC? They suck."

In their minds, if you weren't an NC ACC school, you didn't play basketball...


Also, I read other boards from time to time and many people don't use the P5/G5 terms. A lot just say power/non-power.