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Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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Post: #1
Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
Scott Walker, locked in a surprisingly close reelection race, is backtracking on his previous opposition to marriage equality in Wisconsin. He's gone from being an outspoken opponent to taking a rather agnostic stance. He's most definitely not expressing opposition to marriage equality. That's just more proof that the debate is over.
05-27-2014 10:07 PM
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Brokeback Flamer Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
It's difficult to debate when you don't know the stance of the other side
05-27-2014 10:10 PM
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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-27-2014 10:07 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Scott Walker, locked in a surprisingly close reelection race, is backtracking on his previous opposition to marriage equality bigotry in Wisconsin. He's gone from being an outspoken opponent to taking a rather agnostic stance. He's most definitely not expressing opposition to marriage equality bigotry. That's just more proof that the debate is over.


FIFY
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2014 10:19 PM by DefCONNOne.)
05-27-2014 10:18 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-27-2014 10:10 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  It's difficult to debate when you don't know the stance of the other side

I get the road you want to go down, and we're not going to help you build a straw man argument.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize polygamy, as polygamy has existed in conjunction with straight only marriage for centuries. Heck even the Bible went polygamous as well.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize incestuous relationships. Straight marriage hasn't led to father daughter marriages. There's no reason to argue that Gay marriage will lead to mother daughter marriages.

Marriage is the union of two unrelated consenting adults. It provides stability for the couple and benefits for society.
05-27-2014 11:06 PM
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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-27-2014 11:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(05-27-2014 10:10 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  It's difficult to debate when you don't know the stance of the other side

I get the road you want to go down, and we're not going to help you build a straw man argument.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize polygamy, as polygamy has existed in conjunction with straight only marriage for centuries. Heck even the Bible went polygamous as well.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize incestuous relationships. Straight marriage hasn't led to father daughter marriages. There's no reason to argue that Gay marriage will lead to mother daughter marriages.

Marriage is the union of two unrelated consenting adults. It provides stability for the couple and benefits for society.

Wrong, wrong, a thousand times wrong. By pushing for marriage "equality", you legitimize ALL forms of marriage.


We gays demand special rights, and we won't stop even after we get them!
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2014 11:25 PM by DefCONNOne.)
05-27-2014 11:20 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
yep.

15 years ago republicans were fierce opponents of civil unions.

today they are grabbing on to that stance as their last resort.
05-27-2014 11:28 PM
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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-27-2014 11:28 PM)john01992 Wrote:  yep.

15 years ago republicans were fierce opponents of civil unions.

today they are grabbing on to that stance as their last resort.

Gays will never accept civil unions. I know this b/c that's exactly what happened here in CT. They got the right to get married, but b/c the word marriage wasn't part of the equation, the gays pitched a world-class hissy fit. Smash cut to a year (or so) later and they got their word.
05-27-2014 11:44 PM
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john01992 Offline
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RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-27-2014 11:44 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(05-27-2014 11:28 PM)john01992 Wrote:  yep.

15 years ago republicans were fierce opponents of civil unions.

today they are grabbing on to that stance as their last resort.

Gays will never accept civil unions. I know this b/c that's exactly what happened here in CT. They got the right to get married, but b/c the word marriage wasn't part of the equation, the gays pitched a world-class hissy fit. Smash cut to a year (or so) later and they got their word.

yeah lets see.....

gays rejected something that was designed to be inferior to marriage because it was inferior to marriage and you are surprised that they rejected this why??????
05-27-2014 11:50 PM
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UM2001GRAD Offline
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RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
It's the 21st century and some right-wingers still cling to separate-but-equal philosophies. I wish it were shocking, but it's not.
05-27-2014 11:52 PM
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Brokeback Flamer Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-27-2014 11:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(05-27-2014 10:10 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  It's difficult to debate when you don't know the stance of the other side

I get the road you want to go down, and we're not going to help you build a straw man argument.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize polygamy, as polygamy has existed in conjunction with straight only marriage for centuries. Heck even the Bible went polygamous as well.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize incestuous relationships. Straight marriage hasn't led to father daughter marriages. There's no reason to argue that Gay marriage will lead to mother daughter marriages.

Marriage is the union of two unrelated consenting adults. It provides stability for the couple and benefits for society.

Finally! A definition.
But it is exclusionary. You mentioned Polygamy. Why can't polygamists be married? They don't have to be of opposite sex, you can have same sex polygamist relationships. If you want true 'marriage equality' then shouldn't it be adults of any number? Why would you deny them those rights?
Not sure why you brought up incest. Cousins can marry (outside of WV too!). So I'm not sure the point of that argument.
I agree that Gay Marriage doesn't legitimize polygamy or incest. My question, is why can't those people use the same arguments? Why can't consenting adults have 'sister wives' or the male equivalent? Why deny them a very basic right? You pointed out that Polygamy has a long historical background. I would argue there is more historical precedence for a Government to recognize a person with multiple spouses than to recognize a single same sex couple. And for the record, I'm not saying polygamist relations can't be same sex. Again, it goes to the equality, non exclusion and fairness argument.
05-28-2014 12:02 AM
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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-27-2014 11:52 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  It's the 21st century and some right-wingers still cling to separate-but-equal philosophies. I wish it were shocking, but it's not.

We gays demand special rights, and we won't stop even after we get them!


I'm UM2001GRAD and I approve this message.
05-28-2014 12:18 AM
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Post: #12
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-27-2014 11:52 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  It's the 21st century and some right-wingers still cling to separate-but-equal philosophies. I wish it were shocking, but it's not.

Yep. I get up every day eagerly awaiting an opportunity to make the gays move to the back of the bus. They already prefer to use the back entrance...that one is all on them.
05-28-2014 12:21 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-28-2014 12:02 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  
(05-27-2014 11:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(05-27-2014 10:10 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  It's difficult to debate when you don't know the stance of the other side

I get the road you want to go down, and we're not going to help you build a straw man argument.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize polygamy, as polygamy has existed in conjunction with straight only marriage for centuries. Heck even the Bible went polygamous as well.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize incestuous relationships. Straight marriage hasn't led to father daughter marriages. There's no reason to argue that Gay marriage will lead to mother daughter marriages.

Marriage is the union of two unrelated consenting adults. It provides stability for the couple and benefits for society.

Finally! A definition.
But it is exclusionary. You mentioned Polygamy. Why can't polygamists be married? They don't have to be of opposite sex, you can have same sex polygamist relationships. If you want true 'marriage equality' then shouldn't it be adults of any number? Why would you deny them those rights?
Not sure why you brought up incest. Cousins can marry (outside of WV too!). So I'm not sure the point of that argument.
I agree that Gay Marriage doesn't legitimize polygamy or incest. My question, is why can't those people use the same arguments? Why can't consenting adults have 'sister wives' or the male equivalent? Why deny them a very basic right? You pointed out that Polygamy has a long historical background. I would argue there is more historical precedence for a Government to recognize a person with multiple spouses than to recognize a single same sex couple. And for the record, I'm not saying polygamist relations can't be same sex. Again, it goes to the equality, non exclusion and fairness argument.

That straw man argument is not applicable to same sex marriage. One can make an argument for serial polygamy, as sanctioned by the Bible and various religious texts without referring to same sex marriage.

Straight people created polygamous marriages. Straight people sanctified them. Religions authorized those marriages. All of this happened while Gay persons were barred from equal access to marriage. It has nothing to do with marriage equality for Gay persons.
05-28-2014 12:53 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
At least you've admitted this is about redefinition and not equality, as per your new definition.
05-28-2014 12:55 AM
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DefCONNOne Offline
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RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-28-2014 12:53 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(05-28-2014 12:02 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  
(05-27-2014 11:06 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(05-27-2014 10:10 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  It's difficult to debate when you don't know the stance of the other side

I get the road you want to go down, and we're not going to help you build a straw man argument.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize polygamy, as polygamy has existed in conjunction with straight only marriage for centuries. Heck even the Bible went polygamous as well.

Gay marriage doesn't legitimize incestuous relationships. Straight marriage hasn't led to father daughter marriages. There's no reason to argue that Gay marriage will lead to mother daughter marriages.

Marriage is the union of two unrelated consenting adults. It provides stability for the couple and benefits for society.

Finally! A definition.
But it is exclusionary. You mentioned Polygamy. Why can't polygamists be married? They don't have to be of opposite sex, you can have same sex polygamist relationships. If you want true 'marriage equality' then shouldn't it be adults of any number? Why would you deny them those rights?
Not sure why you brought up incest. Cousins can marry (outside of WV too!). So I'm not sure the point of that argument.
I agree that Gay Marriage doesn't legitimize polygamy or incest. My question, is why can't those people use the same arguments? Why can't consenting adults have 'sister wives' or the male equivalent? Why deny them a very basic right? You pointed out that Polygamy has a long historical background. I would argue there is more historical precedence for a Government to recognize a person with multiple spouses than to recognize a single same sex couple. And for the record, I'm not saying polygamist relations can't be same sex. Again, it goes to the equality, non exclusion and fairness argument.

That straw man argument is not applicable to same sex marriage. One can make an argument for serial polygamy, as sanctioned by the Bible and various religious texts without referring to same sex marriage.

Straight people created polygamous marriages. Straight people sanctified them. Religions authorized those marriages. All of this happened while Gay persons were barred from equal access to marriage. It has nothing to do with marriage equality for Gay persons.

.......and straight people created gay marriage. You see Tom, this game you're playing cuts both ways. No matter how many times you'll try to say it doesn't.
05-28-2014 01:04 AM
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dmacfour Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
I've always thought it was funny how Christians treat gay marriage as an affront to their religious beliefs, but aren't offended by non-Christian marriages.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2014 01:11 AM by dmacfour.)
05-28-2014 01:10 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
The debate's not over... polygamy will start up in a few years..
05-28-2014 01:11 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-28-2014 01:10 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  I've always thought it was funny how Christians treat gay marriage as an affront to their religious beliefs, but aren't offended by non-Christian marriages.

Because you're ignorant and lack the ability to reason...

The Bible *NEVER* says Marriage is between two Christians (or jews).. It always says it's between a man and a woman..

But you go ahead and keep fighting that straw man you like to bring up..
05-28-2014 01:13 AM
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Post: #19
Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-28-2014 01:13 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(05-28-2014 01:10 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  I've always thought it was funny how Christians treat gay marriage as an affront to their religious beliefs, but aren't offended by non-Christian marriages.

Because you're ignorant and lack the ability to reason...

The Bible *NEVER* says Marriage is between two Christians (or jews).. It always says it's between a man and a woman..

But you go ahead and keep fighting that straw man you like to bring up..

The Bible does tell Christians to not be unequally yoked. If you get in that situation then stick it out.


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05-28-2014 01:19 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Further proof that the marriage equality debate is over
(05-28-2014 01:19 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  
(05-28-2014 01:13 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(05-28-2014 01:10 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  I've always thought it was funny how Christians treat gay marriage as an affront to their religious beliefs, but aren't offended by non-Christian marriages.

Because you're ignorant and lack the ability to reason...

The Bible *NEVER* says Marriage is between two Christians (or jews).. It always says it's between a man and a woman..

But you go ahead and keep fighting that straw man you like to bring up..

The Bible does tell Christians to not be unequally yoked. If you get in that situation then stick it out.

But it does not say such a situation is not a marriage.. For example, Esther was ordained to marry Ahasuerus. Moses Married a non Jew, and so on...

The point of the matter is that race, nationality, nor religion were never made qualifiers for marriage in the Judeo-Christian faiths. Now Jews were told that they should marry Jews (Torah) and Christians were advised to marry Christians (NT) but the lifetime bond of a man and woman was a marriage regardless of the faiths.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2014 01:28 AM by Bull_In_Exile.)
05-28-2014 01:27 AM
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