can anyone explain why Pitt had this upsurge in attendance in 2003? I realize that was the final year for Va Tech and Miami in the Big East, and that both of those were home games for Pitt that year (as was Notre Dame), but even the Kent State game reported 56K - here are the numbers:

THEN - Pitt home games 2003
Kent State 56.5k
Ball State 44k
Notre Dame 66k
Syracuse 61k
Va Tech 66k
Miami FL 60k

4 games broke 60k and a 5th broke 55k! Was this just considered a great home schedule that year?
__________

NOW - Pitt home games 2012
Youngstown St 41k
Va Tech 48k
Gardner Webb 36k
Louisville 42k
Temple 42k
Rutgers 39k

NOW - Pitt home games 2013
Florida St 65.5k
New Mexido 40k
Virginia 48k
Old Dominion 38k
Notre Dame 65.5k
N Carolina 50k
Miami 40k

The only really well attended games in the past 2 years have been FSU and ND last year. What's up? Attendance for Miami had to be disappointing!

CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME?

Ranked in top 10, Larry Fitzgerald, and the schedule.

(05-27-2014 07:22 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  can anyone explain why Pitt had this upsurge in attendance in 2003? I realize that was the final year for Va Tech and Miami in the Big East, and that both of those were home games for Pitt that year (as was Notre Dame), but even the Kent State game reported 56K - here are the numbers:

THEN - Pitt home games 2003
Kent State 56.5k
Ball State 44k
Notre Dame 66k
Syracuse 61k
Va Tech 66k
Miami FL 60k

4 games broke 60k and a 5th broke 55k! Was this just considered a great home schedule that year?
__________

NOW - Pitt home games 2012
Youngstown St 41k
Va Tech 48k
Gardner Webb 36k
Louisville 42k
Temple 42k
Rutgers 39k

NOW - Pitt home games 2013
Florida St 65.5k
New Mexido 40k
Virginia 48k
Old Dominion 38k
Notre Dame 65.5k
N Carolina 50k
Miami 40k

The only really well attended games in the past 2 years have been FSU and ND last year. What's up? Attendance for Miami had to be disappointing!

CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME?

Pitt was preseason top 10 with a Heisman favorite that year. Unless Pitt is really good the fans usually only care about WVU, PSU, and ND.

If the Miami game wasn't thanksgiving weekend it probably would have been 50k.

The other Pitt fans pretty much nailed it. Pitt was a preseason Top 10 team that year and everyone knew after his freshman year that Larry Fitzgerald was a spectacular talent and that if they wanted to see him play live they needed to do it ASAP because he wasn't going to be around for very long.

Also, the home schedule had Notre Dame and Miami on it and Virginia Tech was pretty much at their apex as well. That's almost a perfect storm.

That is also why I am so insistent on Pitt continuing to play Miami and Virginia Tech every year. If that's via divisional play, fine. If those games are part of our annual rivalry games in a single division format, that's fine too. We need rivals to draw fans, period. I don't care about playing Florida State and/or Clemson slightly more frequently if it means playing Miami and Virginia Tech less frequently. That's not a good trade off for us...at all.

As for last year, frankly, the attendance was disappointing. We REALLY sold the fact that we were in a new league now and to be honest, there was some excitement but not as much as one might have suspected there would be.

So, people were pretty pumped to see FSU coming to Pittsburgh for the first time in 30 years and they mostly showed up for that game. However, as I feared would be the case going in, after we were pounded so decisively in that game, it basically took the steam out of the rest of the season for a lot of fans.

Pittsburgh fans are wonderful and very passionate. However they are not going to waste a fall Saturday on college football if the local team is noncompetitive.

^ I loved seeing that game in person

(05-27-2014 07:22 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  can anyone explain why Pitt had this upsurge in attendance in 2003? I realize that was the final year for Va Tech and Miami in the Big East, and that both of those were home games for Pitt that year (as was Notre Dame), but even the Kent State game reported 56K - here are the numbers:

THEN - Pitt home games 2003
Kent State 56.5k
Ball State 44k
Notre Dame 66k
Syracuse 61k
Va Tech 66k
Miami FL 60k

4 games broke 60k and a 5th broke 55k! Was this just considered a great home schedule that year?
__________

NOW - Pitt home games 2012
Youngstown St 41k
Va Tech 48k
Gardner Webb 36k
Louisville 42k
Temple 42k
Rutgers 39k

NOW - Pitt home games 2013
Florida St 65.5k
New Mexido 40k
Virginia 48k
Old Dominion 38k
Notre Dame 65.5k
N Carolina 50k
Miami 40k

The only really well attended games in the past 2 years have been FSU and ND last year. What's up? Attendance for Miami had to be disappointing!

CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME?

(05-27-2014 10:08 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  The other Pitt fans pretty much nailed it. Pitt was a preseason Top 10 team that year and everyone knew after his freshman year that Larry Fitzgerald was a spectacular talent and that if they wanted to see him play live they needed to do it ASAP because he wasn't going to be around for very long.

Also, the home schedule had Notre Dame and Miami on it and Virginia Tech was pretty much at their apex as well. That's almost a perfect storm.

That is also why I am so insistent on Pitt continuing to play Miami and Virginia Tech every year. If that's via divisional play, fine. If those games are part of our annual rivalry games in a single division format, that's fine too. We need rivals to draw fans, period. I don't care about playing Florida State and/or Clemson slightly more frequently if it means playing Miami and Virginia Tech less frequently. That's not a good trade off for us...at all.

As for last year, frankly, the attendance was disappointing. We REALLY sold the fact that we were in a new league now and to be honest, there was some excitement but not as much as one might have suspected there would be.

So, people were pretty pumped to see FSU coming to Pittsburgh for the first time in 30 years and they mostly showed up for that game. However, as I feared would be the case going in, after we were pounded so decisively in that game, it basically took the steam out of the rest of the season for a lot of fans.

Pittsburgh fans are wonderful and very passionate. However they are not going to waste a fall Saturday on college football if the local team is noncompetitive.

There are a lot of fans around the country that don't consider supporting their team to be "wasting a fall Saturday". I could see a WVU fan saying that about Pitt fans, or vice versa. But to say it about your own school?

I grew up near Pittsburgh. Born and raised 35 miles southeast of there.

I grew up and still am a very big fan of the Pirates, Steelers and Penguins (in that order).

I just never grew up as a Pitt fan. But, I have known quite a few of them and have followed Pitt football over the decades.

I used to attend ND/Pitt games in old Pitt Stadium.

One of Pitt's problems, obviously, is that its football program has been mediocre/in the doldrums for quite a while. Its bigger problem is that the area football fans are mostly Steeler fans (which dominates the area completely), not college football fans.

Even true college football fans in the area are somewhat divided in their loyalties. There are many Penn State, WVU and Notre Dame fans in Western Pennsylvania.

Pitt has had a great deal of trouble developing enthusiasm among its existing fan base and in expanding that fan base in the last 25-30 years.

There is also a bit (although overstated by WVU fans and others) of an impact of playing at Heinz Field and having no on campus stadium at Pitt.

But, if Pitt were to return to some of the success it had in the 1975-85 time frame, a number of Pittsburgh area sports fans would start supporting Pitt and attend Pitt games.

Pittsburghers love a winner and cannot abide a loser (unless it is their lovable Pirates).

(05-27-2014 12:25 PM)TerryD Wrote:  I grew up near Pittsburgh. Born and raised 35 miles southeast of there.

I grew up and still am a very big fan of the Pirates, Steelers and Penguins (in that order).

I just never grew up as a Pitt fan. But, I have known quite a few of them and have followed Pitt football over the decades.

I used to attend ND/Pitt games in old Pitt Stadium.

One of Pitt's problems, obviously, is that its football program has been mediocre/in the doldrums for quite a while. Its bigger problem is that the area football fans are mostly Steeler fans (which dominates the area completely), not college football fans.

Even true college football fans in the area are somewhat divided in their loyalties. There are many Penn State, WVU and Notre Dame fans in Western Pennsylvania.

Pitt has had a great deal of trouble developing enthusiasm among its existing fan base and in expanding that fan base in the last 25-30 years.

There is also a bit (although overstated by WVU fans and others) of an impact of playing at Heinz Field and having no on campus stadium at Pitt.

But, if Pitt were to return to some of the success it had in the 1975-85 time frame, a number of Pittsburgh area sports fans would start supporting Pitt and attend Pitt games.

Pittsburghers love a winner and cannot abide a loser (unless it is their lovable Pirates).

There impact of playing at Heinz is that attendance is better, even when normalized for wins in a season. Tailgating is significantly better.

(05-27-2014 11:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-27-2014 10:08 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  The other Pitt fans pretty much nailed it. Pitt was a preseason Top 10 team that year and everyone knew after his freshman year that Larry Fitzgerald was a spectacular talent and that if they wanted to see him play live they needed to do it ASAP because he wasn't going to be around for very long.

Also, the home schedule had Notre Dame and Miami on it and Virginia Tech was pretty much at their apex as well. That's almost a perfect storm.

That is also why I am so insistent on Pitt continuing to play Miami and Virginia Tech every year. If that's via divisional play, fine. If those games are part of our annual rivalry games in a single division format, that's fine too. We need rivals to draw fans, period. I don't care about playing Florida State and/or Clemson slightly more frequently if it means playing Miami and Virginia Tech less frequently. That's not a good trade off for us...at all.

As for last year, frankly, the attendance was disappointing. We REALLY sold the fact that we were in a new league now and to be honest, there was some excitement but not as much as one might have suspected there would be.

So, people were pretty pumped to see FSU coming to Pittsburgh for the first time in 30 years and they mostly showed up for that game. However, as I feared would be the case going in, after we were pounded so decisively in that game, it basically took the steam out of the rest of the season for a lot of fans.

Pittsburgh fans are wonderful and very passionate. However they are not going to waste a fall Saturday on college football if the local team is noncompetitive.

There are a lot of fans around the country that don't consider supporting their team to be "wasting a fall Saturday". I could see a WVU fan saying that about Pitt fans, or vice versa. But to say it about your own school?

There are only about 30K-35K Pitt fans that would show up regularly for the Pitt college football experience. The remainder are band wagon jumpers or casual Pittsburgh fans which is why Pitt typically averages in the 40Ks. There is a tremendous amount of self-loathing in the fan base because of legitimate let downs as well as plain old unrealistic expectations of people still living like it is 1981.

If Pitt was a consistent top 25 program, which it hasn't been in 30 years, its attendance issues would disappear. For how mediocre it has been, the letdowns, and other issues it has faced, it draws fairly well. Pitt has a better fan base than Miami, something I can definitively attest to being a alumni of both schools.

1) Is Pittsburgh still a blue collar town?
2) How many University Pittsburgh Alumnus live in Pittsburgh and its surrounding Metro area?

It the answer to 1 is yes, and the answer to 2 is not that many then that is why Pitt games are empty and the Steeler games are full.

(05-27-2014 02:05 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  1) Is Pittsburgh still a blue collar town?
2) How many University Pittsburgh Alumnus live in Pittsburgh and its surrounding Metro area?

It the answer to 1 is yes, and the answer to 2 is not that many then that is why Pitt games are empty and the Steeler games are full.

1- No
2- No

Pittsburgh transformed from a steel working town to a tech town with some of the best hospitals in the nation; Pitt's UPMC is one of the reason's why the hospitals here are that good.

2- While some Pitt alums stay here, a lot heads back to the area's they come from.

I don't know what it'll take but Pitt gotta do a better job of keeping alums here in Pittsburgh and doing more to reach out to the casual bandwagon Pittsburgh fan. I don't know what it'll take though.

(05-27-2014 02:05 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  1) Is Pittsburgh still a blue collar town?
2) How many University Pittsburgh Alumnus live in Pittsburgh and its surrounding Metro area?

It the answer to 1 is yes, and the answer to 2 is not that many then that is why Pitt games are empty and the Steeler games are full.

My Dad, brother and brother in law worked in the Clairton Works of U.S. Steel from the Fifties on. I worked there summers while in college.

Most steel mill sites are now empty lots. The steel industry is largely, if not almost totally, gone from the Pittsburgh area.

Pittsburgh transformed itself after the steel industry collapse in the late Seventies.

It concentrated on "Eds and Meds" (education and medicine) and is a totally different city than it was before 1980 or so.

Clairton Works... oh oh that smell...

(05-27-2014 02:12 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-27-2014 02:05 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  1) Is Pittsburgh still a blue collar town?
2) How many University Pittsburgh Alumnus live in Pittsburgh and its surrounding Metro area?

It the answer to 1 is yes, and the answer to 2 is not that many then that is why Pitt games are empty and the Steeler games are full.

1- No
2- No

Pittsburgh transformed from a steel working town to a tech town with some of the best hospitals in the nation; Pitt's UPMC is one of the reason's why the hospitals here are that good.

2- While some Pitt alums stay here, a lot heads back to the area's they come from.

I don't know what it'll take but Pitt gotta do a better job of keeping alums here in Pittsburgh and doing more to reach out to the casual bandwagon Pittsburgh fan. I don't know what it'll take though.

Winning. Big. 10 win seasons?

(05-27-2014 02:48 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Clairton Works... oh oh that smell...

My Dad worked on the battery/wharf. My brother started as a pipefitter helper in the rolling mills and ended up a foreman for Aristech when they bought it out.

My brother in law was an electrician there.

I worked in the Rolling Mill Labor Gang, mostly in the 21" rolling mill. Good times, good times (late Seventies).

You worked there about the same time my pap and uncle did. Perhaps you know em. Both were named Howard Kelley.

(05-27-2014 07:22 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  can anyone explain why Pitt had this upsurge in attendance in 2003? I realize that was the final year for Va Tech and Miami in the Big East, and that both of those were home games for Pitt that year (as was Notre Dame), but even the Kent State game reported 56K - here are the numbers:

THEN - Pitt home games 2003
Kent State 56.5k
Ball State 44k
Notre Dame 66k
Syracuse 61k
Va Tech 66k
Miami FL 60k

4 games broke 60k and a 5th broke 55k! Was this just considered a great home schedule that year?
__________

NOW - Pitt home games 2012
Youngstown St 41k
Va Tech 48k
Gardner Webb 36k
Louisville 42k
Temple 42k
Rutgers 39k

NOW - Pitt home games 2013
Florida St 65.5k
New Mexido 40k
Virginia 48k
Old Dominion 38k
Notre Dame 65.5k
N Carolina 50k
Miami 40k

The only really well attended games in the past 2 years have been FSU and ND last year. What's up? Attendance for Miami had to be disappointing!

CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME?

Attendance is also a result of the number of alums you create, the undergraduates you are running through the university, and the competition you face in your market.

Let's look at the ACC by size of the undergraduate populations:

WF - 5K
Duke - 6K
ND - 8K
BC - 9K
Miami - 10K
GT - 14K
Syr - 15K
UVa - 16K
CU - 17K
Pitt - 18K
UNC - 19K
VT - 24K
NCSU - 26K
FSU - 32K

The league's year in and year out attendance leaders are Clemson, FSU, VT, NC State, and UNC. Clemson is the real outlier regarding attendance when comparing their alumni base and campus undergraduate population to what they put in the football stands. However, Clemson has no entertainment competition in their market.

UNC and NC State have each other as well as Duke, WF, and ECU in their market area. They also compete against their football interests with their basketball.

GT, BC, Miami, and Pitt have to compete against NFL football, the NBA, NHL and MLB. GT football's drop in the world came when the Falcons moved to Atlanta back in 1966. These factors also were killing Maryland.

Clemson, FSU, UVa, VT, and Syracuse are the only schools that have their sports as the only real entertainment in town. Syracuse has focused on basketball, Clemson, FSU, and VT on football.

I think Pitt is doing well considering all the competition and the size of their student body.

(05-27-2014 02:50 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Winning. Big. 10 win seasons?

...and THAT'S the key to Every ACC schools attendance success.
FlossY out...

Louisville was a manufacturing city once also with heavy industries (GE, Ford, International Harvester, American Standard, and American Air Filters). We also had four Tobacco companies (Phillip Morris, Brown & Williamson, Lorillard Tobacco, National Tobacco Company), meat packing houses, bakeries, and numerous distilleries.. We also had breweries and bakers. Lorillard Tobacco.

Today we are much like Pittsburgh. Louisville has the medical industry jobs, business service industries, Humana, and numerous transportation & warehousing, with UPS being the largest.. Ford is still here as is American Air Filters and GE, but both these are just shells of theirselves in the 1950 and 1960s. Louisville has become a large small manufacturer city as well.

Our big advantage over Pitt is we have no pro teams and have been able to keep the Louisville Alumnus in the Ville.