As an outsider, I don't think most of the country distinguishes Houston from USF much at all. We can argue about Phi Slamma Jamma* or the fact that USF beat Auburn a while back**, but simply put they see both programs as AAC schools-- northing more and nothing less.


* I know the Houston folks don't want to hear it but I don't think the nation gives you any credit for the PSU win. Not that I am saying they are right for doing so, but the win was overshadowed by the scandal. What's more, again not saying it is right, but most of the country has forgotten or was born after the SWC. Sadly, you get no credit for that history (I think you should).

** One thing I believe most people believe is that USF is a school that has never lived up to its potential. I can remember being in the Big East with you guys and almost annually some prognositcator would gush over you guys and say this was the year you would put it all together.

(05-28-2014 08:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Yes, USF has spent more weeks ranked than UCF or Houston the past 10 years. The ECU fans argument is very weak.

In season rankings are weak. But if you want to go there yes you are up 26 to 22 versus us (total weekly rankings in the last 10 years).

That said end of year rankings are all that matter and you have never finished in the top 25 EVER......

We have 13 times and once in the last 10 years.

Heres your weak sauce..........

(05-28-2014 08:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  As an outsider, I don't think most of the country distinguishes Houston from USF much at all. We can argue about Phi Slamma Jamma* or the fact that USF beat Auburn a while back**, but simply put they see both programs as AAC schools-- northing more and nothing less.


* I know the Houston folks don't want to hear it but I don't think the nation gives you any credit for the PSU win. Not that I am saying they are right for doing so, but the win was overshadowed by the scandal. What's more, again not saying it is right, but most of the country has forgotten or was born after the SWC. Sadly, you get no credit for that history (I think you should).

** One thing I believe most people believe is that USF is a school that has never lived up to its potential. I can remember being in the Big East with you guys and almost annually some prognositcator would gush over you guys and say this was the year you would put it all together.

This post is spot-on on all fronts, including the (sadly true) one about USF. USF has often been overrated, in fact, our history is one of unfulfilled "potential". Heck, until our demotion from AQ to AAC, our conference history was one of constantly getting promoted, not based on present-day reality, but on the perceived enormous upside potential in terms of student body size, market size, access to recruits, etc.

In that, we mirrored our city, Tampa. In the 1970s and 1980s, Tampa's nickname was "America's Next Great City", but it never quite happened. Anyone visiting Tampa those decades would have called us an overgrown "town", not a city. It wasn't until the mid-late 1990s that we achieved that potential as a city. USF still hasn't as an athletic program.

(05-28-2014 08:52 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 08:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Yes, USF has spent more weeks ranked than UCF or Houston the past 10 years. The ECU fans argument is very weak.

In season rankings are weak. But if you want to go there yes you are up 26 to 22 versus us (total weekly rankings in the last 10 years).

That said end of year rankings are all that matter

Once again, you are way off base. End of year rankings are "all that matter" when it comes to some things, like who finishes #1. But when it comes to who finishes #13? Nobody cares about that.

A school will get far more media attention if it spends several weeks during a season between say #10 - #20, but then falls out of the final poll, then if it spends no weeks in the weekly polls but then leaps up to #20 in the final poll. Every week in a poll brings publicity, whereas final polls are almost immediately forgotten about (season is over so media attention moves to other sports), except for who finished #1.

(05-28-2014 08:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  ** One thing I believe most people believe is that USF is a school that has never lived up to its potential. I can remember being in the Big East with you guys and almost annually some prognositcator would gush over you guys and say this was the year you would put it all together.

Quo is still clueless.... To repeat for the millionth time so maybe it will sink in I was simply making the case that having UH, Tulsa, UCF, and "USF"........ in the same division would not make the western division football heavy.

He took that as a complete slap in the face and ran with it.

I think your statement above only confirms that argument. A school that was only 3 games over .500 in the BCS and well below .500 (33-52) versus actual BCS competition after joining the Big East in 2005.

I never said USF was a bad program just perceived on some level (let’s call it 1 and 1A to placate Quo...) below other programs in the AAC.

(05-28-2014 09:04 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 08:52 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 08:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Yes, USF has spent more weeks ranked than UCF or Houston the past 10 years. The ECU fans argument is very weak.

In season rankings are weak. But if you want to go there yes you are up 26 to 22 versus us (total weekly rankings in the last 10 years).

That said end of year rankings are all that matter

Once again, you are way off base. End of year rankings are "all that matter" when it comes to some things, like who finishes #1. But when it comes to who finishes #13? Nobody cares about that.

A school will get far more media attention if it spends several weeks during a season between say #10 - #20, but then falls out of the final poll, then if it spends no weeks in the weekly polls but then leaps up to #20 in the final poll. Every week in a poll brings publicity, whereas final polls are almost immediately forgotten about (season is over so media attention moves to other sports), except for who finished #1.

During said season yes in season rankings matter but 10 years later its just chasing rainbows there buddy.

I would never make the calim we were ranked 22 times in the last 10 years. I would only say we finished ranked once in that same time period.

If you want to thump your chest about in season rankings 5,6,7,8, or whatever years ago you go right ahead just realize nobody else cares.

(05-28-2014 08:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Let me get this straight: A Houston fan claims that USF is on a lower level than Houston and UCF, a silly idea that I stepped in to correct, and yet it was I that "started this whole thing" and not the Houston fan who claimed we were on a lower level?

I contend that you have a thin skin and took a left turn with the debate but whatever......

To be clear I swiftly corrected him and told him that the "perceived" affront came from me and not you.

(05-28-2014 09:06 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  I never said USF was a bad program just perceived on some level (let’s call it 1 and 1A to placate Quo...) below other programs in the AAC.

You claimed USF is perceived to be on a lower level of football than UCF, Houston, and Cincy. I didn't object to saying that about Cincy, because there's a good case to be made that it is true.

But there is no good case for claiming it about Houston or UCF, so I objected to that. That's what happened, and continues to happen, because you apparently are unable to assimilate the facts that show you to be incorrect.

(05-28-2014 09:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 09:06 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  I never said USF was a bad program just perceived on some level (let’s call it 1 and 1A to placate Quo...) below other programs in the AAC.

You claimed USF is perceived to be on a lower level of football than UCF, Houston, and Cincy. I didn't object to saying that about Cincy, because there's a good case to be made that it is true.

But there is no good case for claiming it about Houston or UCF, so I objected to that. That's what happened, and continues to happen, because you apparently are unable to assimilate the facts that show you to be incorrect.

Facts? You provided one thing to make your case. One that is not a real reflection of your program. Sagrin by virtue of being in a BCS conference and playing higher ranked schools has your loses as more valuable than say a loss to a Sun Belt team. How can you with a straight face claim a school that when facing BCS level competition went 33-52 from 2005-2013 was a great program?

I have provided multiple "facts" to dispute your assumption that USF is some power football school.

As annoying as you can be I respect your defense of your school and your program. Just try and fight the right battles and stop picking fights.

I never called or insinuated that USF was a terrible program like you are acting.

(05-28-2014 09:10 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 09:04 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 08:52 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 08:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Yes, USF has spent more weeks ranked than UCF or Houston the past 10 years. The ECU fans argument is very weak.

In season rankings are weak. But if you want to go there yes you are up 26 to 22 versus us (total weekly rankings in the last 10 years).

That said end of year rankings are all that matter

Once again, you are way off base. End of year rankings are "all that matter" when it comes to some things, like who finishes #1. But when it comes to who finishes #13? Nobody cares about that.

A school will get far more media attention if it spends several weeks during a season between say #10 - #20, but then falls out of the final poll, then if it spends no weeks in the weekly polls but then leaps up to #20 in the final poll. Every week in a poll brings publicity, whereas final polls are almost immediately forgotten about (season is over so media attention moves to other sports), except for who finished #1.

During said season yes in season rankings matter but 10 years later its just chasing rainbows there buddy.

You fail to realize that "10 years later" nobody cares whether a school finished #17 in a final poll or was just ranked #17 at some time during the year. Nobody cares about either.

In contrast, those in-season rankings matter because they garner immediate media and fan attention. They can aid in recruiting, donations, eyeballs on TV sets in the here and now.

But when it comes to history, ten years later, the only things that really count are the big stuff - national titles, BCS bowls won, major conference titles, that's about it.

(05-28-2014 09:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  You fail to realize that "10 years later" nobody cares whether a school finished #17 in a final poll or was just ranked #17 at some time during the year. Nobody cares about either.

Ok that is an argument I can live with but that blade cuts both ways.........

(05-28-2014 09:19 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 09:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-28-2014 09:06 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  I never said USF was a bad program just perceived on some level (let’s call it 1 and 1A to placate Quo...) below other programs in the AAC.

You claimed USF is perceived to be on a lower level of football than UCF, Houston, and Cincy. I didn't object to saying that about Cincy, because there's a good case to be made that it is true.

But there is no good case for claiming it about Houston or UCF, so I objected to that. That's what happened, and continues to happen, because you apparently are unable to assimilate the facts that show you to be incorrect.

Facts? You provided one thing to make your case. One that is not a real reflection of your program. Sagrin by virtue of being in a BCS conference and playing higher ranked schools has your loses as more valuable than say a loss to a Sun Belt team. How can you with a straight face claim a school that when facing BCS level competition went 33-52 from 2005-2013 was a great program?

I have provided multiple "facts" to dispute your assumption that USF is some power football school.

As annoying as you can be I respect your defense of your school and your program. Just try and fight the right battles and stop picking fights.

I never called or insinuated that USF was a terrible program like you are acting.

Wow, so many false claims ... where to begin?

First, Sagarin is a respected computer ranking so your effort to besmirch it is futile. As I said, if you want to pick some other computer, good luck with that. But it is objective evidence, and it supports my claim not yours.

Second, I have never said USF was a "great program" or a "powerful football school". The only thing I claimed was that USF is on the same level as Houston and UCF, that's it.

Third, I never said you claimed USF was a "terrible" program. You claimed USF is perceived to be below UCF and Houston, and that is what I objected to.

Maybe your utter lack of clarity about what this discussion has been about - only one thing, whether USF is below Houston and UCF - explains why you keep flailing at windmills?

(05-28-2014 08:52 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  As an outsider, I don't think most of the country distinguishes Houston from USF much at all. We can argue about Phi Slamma Jamma* or the fact that USF beat Auburn a while back**, but simply put they see both programs as AAC schools-- northing more and nothing less.


* I know the Houston folks don't want to hear it but I don't think the nation gives you any credit for the PSU win. Not that I am saying they are right for doing so, but the win was overshadowed by the scandal. What's more, again not saying it is right, but most of the country has forgotten or was born after the SWC. Sadly, you get no credit for that history (I think you should).

** One thing I believe most people believe is that USF is a school that has never lived up to its potential. I can remember being in the Big East with you guys and almost annually some prognositcator would gush over you guys and say this was the year you would put it all together.

ok then explain why we are the only school that has had college gameday come to their campus is Houston in the league (in 2011)

and you aren't an outsider at ALL. i said this numerous times, outside of Florida and "big east fans" (you are a big east fan), youve played with USF for years, grown to the brand and now are left behind with them. USF is common name to cincy fans. literally ONLY big east fans know they come in overhyped. i honestly knew nothing of usf (im an avid college fan) till we joined the league, when i argue with non AAC fans about the league no one knows anything about usf and groups them with tulsa and tulane

and this has nothing to do with the point but please dont tell me you are honestly comparing usf beating a 9-4 auburn to phi slamma jamma? literally in the 75 year anniversary of the ncaa tournament last year. espn labeled the greatest moment in ncaa history was ncstate vs Houston. we lost that game but they labeled it the greatest because we were the unbeatable Goliath and small time ncstate beat us with last second miracle oop. the basketball "game of the century" involved Houston is a sold out 70k football stadium. 2 top 10 ncaa players ever played at UH. lets not get carried away with the comparison.

you proved nothing besides that you are a big east fan, congratulations

(05-28-2014 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  First, Sagarin is a respected computer ranking so your effort to besmirch it is futile. As I said, if you want to pick some other computer, good luck with that. But it is objective evidence, and it supports my claim not yours.

I realize Sagrin is respected but as a computer it looks at the big picture lets just use this random example. In 2006 your loss to #10 Louisville did more to help your rankings (thanks to the season Louisville had final ranking #5) than say your win against FIU in the same year.

(05-28-2014 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Second, I have never said USF was a "great program" or a "powerful football school". The only thing I claimed was that USF is on the same level as Houston and UCF, that's it.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree here.

(05-28-2014 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Third, I never said you claimed USF was a "terrible" program. You claimed USF is perceived to be below UCF and Houston, and that is what I objected to.

Again agree to disagree

(05-28-2014 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Maybe your utter lack of clarity about what this discussion has been about - only one thing, whether USF is below Houston and UCF - explains why you keep flailing at windmills?

It morphed into that question but it started with me saying having USF in the same division as UH, UCF, and Tulsa would not make it football heavy. Go back and check.