G5 conference ideas have usually been based on geography, markets, academics, and school brands ( or "prestige"). Im wondering, could a conference built on the concept of monopolizing the best recruiting grounds work at the G5 level?

I was thinking that a southern G5 conference that essentially cut off the other G5's from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida might have an advantage over other G5 conferences and ride this advantage to slowly becoming the most dominant G5 on the field.

The concept would look something like this--


Houston
SMU
UTSA
TxSt
Rice
N Tx


Tulane
LaTch
UL-L


UCF
USF
FIU
FIA

S Miss
Ark St
UAB or Troy

This is a 16 team conference. It takes all the Texas G5's in the major populated portion of the state. I would think most Texas recruits would rather play for a team in this conference than any other G5 conference. My proposal takes 3 of 4 Louisiana G5's (thus recruits would likely prefer to play for this conference rather than any other G5), and all the Florida G5's.

Becoming the dominate G5 conference in the major recruiting areas required 13 schools. I then just tied the conference together as best I could by adding 3 more schools from 3 different states to expand the footprint for media and travel purposes.

I would think a conference like this would be quite a force in the key recruiting states of Texas, Florida, and Louisiana and might often win recruiting battles against cold weather P5's. You could reduce the footprint and put a tighter lock on recruiting by adding UL-M--but my concern is that it would limit the media appeal too much---but it would take the 'lock out" approach to its full potential. I do tend to think that having 3 of 4 G5's in a state is likely sufficient to allow the conference to dominate that state and Louisiana is kind of a small state to have 4 schools.

Divisions would be tricky, but I figure the Texas 6+ArkySt+Miss would be one division. The Florida 4+Louisiana 3+UAB would be the other. I don't think you would want to split up the state groupings.

I think if you are gonna build something with the g5 you need to start with a texas centric grouping. UH, smu, tulsa, tulane, & rice have some strong academics/endowments for the region. if the b12 ever breaks up (which has a good chance of happening) tcu/baylor and even tech would be prime cultural fits in a reorganized version of this league. You could mess around with cincy as an outlier school because they bring a lot to the table academically.

(05-24-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  G5 conference ideas have usually been based on geography, markets, academics, and school brands ( or "prestige"). Im wondering, could a conference built on the concept of monopolizing the best recruiting grounds work at the G5 level?

I was thinking that a southern G5 conference that essentially cut off the other G5's from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida might have an advantage over other G5 conferences and ride this advantage to slowly becoming the most dominant G5 on the field.

The concept would look something like this--


Houston
SMU
UTSA
TxSt
Rice
N Tx


Tulane
LaTch
UL-L


UCF
USF
FIU
FIA

S Miss
Ark St
UAB or Troy

This is a 16 team conference. It takes all the Texas G5's in the major populated portion of the state. I would think most Texas recruits would rather play for a team in this conference than any other G5 conference. My proposal takes 3 of 4 Louisiana G5's (thus recruits would likely prefer to play for this conference rather than any other G5), and all the Florida G5's.

Becoming the dominate G5 conference in the major recruiting areas required 13 schools. I then just tied the conference together as best I could by adding 3 more schools from 3 different states to expand the footprint for media and travel purposes.

I would think a conference like this would be quite a force in the key recruiting states of Texas, Florida, and Louisiana and might often win recruiting battles against cold weather P5's. You could reduce the footprint and put a tighter lock on recruiting by adding UL-M--but my concern is that it would limit the media appeal too much---but it would take the 'lock out" approach to its full potential. I do tend to think that having 3 of 4 G5's in a state is likely sufficient to allow the conference to dominate that state and Louisiana is kind of a small state to have 4 schools.

Divisions would be tricky, but I figure the Texas 6+ArkySt+Miss would be one division. The Florida 4+Louisiana 3+UAB would be the other. I don't think you would want to split up the state groupings.

Georgia has great recruiting so two from Georgia, Louisiana and Alabama gets you sixteen . Along with the Texas and Florida schools.

West
Fresno State
San Diego State
San Jose State
SMU
Houston
UTSA

East
South Florida
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Memphis
Georgia State
Georgia Southern

If the coast-to-coast Big East had survived, it could have effectively served as such a conference. In all likelihood change UTSA and SJSU above to BYU and Boise State. At the time the two GSUs weren't FBS, and most of the East Division above hadn't been invited to the Big East.

If push came shove Texas centric would be viable with these schools, play in our backyard so to speak would be more fan interest due to the travel ability and natural rivalries.


Houston
BYU
Rice
UTEP
UTSA
SMU
TX St
UT Arlington ( convince them to revive their program)
North Texas
Arky St
ULL
New Mexico
Air Force
Colorado St

(05-24-2014 05:43 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  If push came shove Texas centric would be viable with these schools, play in our backyard so to speak would be more fan interest due to the travel ability and natural rivalries.


Houston
BYU
Rice
UTEP
UTSA
SMU
TX St
UT Arlington ( convince them to revive their program)
North Texas
Arky St
ULL
New Mexico
Air Force
Colorado St

Interesting. I'd dump UT-Arlington for another Louisiana school--probably Tulane. If BYU wouldn't come (which I think is probably the case), I doubt the MW schools would be interested. You could add NM St and Memphis in their place for a little basketball presence.

Where's the pipeline to that Philly/PA talent, yo? HINT HINT

(05-24-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  G5 conference ideas have usually been based on geography, markets, academics, and school brands ( or "prestige"). Im wondering, could a conference built on the concept of monopolizing the best recruiting grounds work at the G5 level?

I was thinking that a southern G5 conference that essentially cut off the other G5's from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida might have an advantage over other G5 conferences and ride this advantage to slowly becoming the most dominant G5 on the field.

The concept would look something like this--


Houston
SMU
UTSA
TxSt
Rice
N Tx


Tulane
LaTch
UL-L


UCF
USF
FIU
FIA

S Miss
Ark St
UAB or Troy

This is a 16 team conference. It takes all the Texas G5's in the major populated portion of the state. I would think most Texas recruits would rather play for a team in this conference than any other G5 conference. My proposal takes 3 of 4 Louisiana G5's (thus recruits would likely prefer to play for this conference rather than any other G5), and all the Florida G5's.

Becoming the dominate G5 conference in the major recruiting areas required 13 schools. I then just tied the conference together as best I could by adding 3 more schools from 3 different states to expand the footprint for media and travel purposes.

I would think a conference like this would be quite a force in the key recruiting states of Texas, Florida, and Louisiana and might often win recruiting battles against cold weather P5's. You could reduce the footprint and put a tighter lock on recruiting by adding UL-M--but my concern is that it would limit the media appeal too much---but it would take the 'lock out" approach to its full potential. I do tend to think that having 3 of 4 G5's in a state is likely sufficient to allow the conference to dominate that state and Louisiana is kind of a small state to have 4 schools.

Divisions would be tricky, but I figure the Texas 6+ArkySt+Miss would be one division. The Florida 4+Louisiana 3+UAB would be the other. I don't think you would want to split up the state groupings.

Attack,

I spend too much time on this site, and I only average 1.97 posts per day.

You are averaging over 13.6 posts per day. While some of them are very good and informative and I genuinely like you, there are too many like this one that aren't worth wasting time with.

By that I mean: 1 ) the scenario you describe would never happen in a million years, and 2) it would suck for UH if by some tiny chance it did happen.

So why did you waste your time and creative energy composing this post?

If you cut down on some of these type posts, you could be one of the best members of this site.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend you, and I hope it does not come across like that. But when I read a post like this, I worry that you'll either: 1) burn out or 2) miss out on some of life's other pleasures if you continue at this rate.

BYU
Boise
UNLV
SDSU
Fresno
New Mexico
Colorado State
Air Force (Football Only)

Cincinnati
Memphis
Houston
SMU
USF
UCF
UCONN
Navy (Football Only)

(05-24-2014 04:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I think if you are gonna build something with the g5 you need to start with a texas centric grouping. UH, smu, tulsa, tulane, & rice have some strong academics/endowments for the region. if the b12 ever breaks up (which has a good chance of happening) tcu/baylor and even tech would be prime cultural fits in a reorganized version of this league. You could mess around with cincy as an outlier school because they bring a lot to the table academically.

ACC is just as likely to split honestly. Depends on a number of factors over the next decade and neither is likely to break unless market factors work against them.

Either way on this idea the concept of fencing recruiting is somewhat on point but involves the AAC schools in TX, Florida, Louisiana, etc elevating several foes to their league in recruiting.

Probably need to grab 2 or at most 3 from a state to fence the recruits but still cover the area.

If I had to draw it up balancing both ideas and keep somewhat competitive.

UH
SMU
Two of UTSA, Rice, UNT
Tulsa (smaller recruit state but decent)
Tulane
Memphis
MTSU
USM
UCF
USF
ECU
Cincy
ODU
Charlotte
GST, GaSou, or AppSt

Other than California it covers it all.

If you wanted to go coast to coast narrow the above list to 12 and add SDSU, Fresno, CSU, and SJSU.

(05-24-2014 09:42 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 04:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I think if you are gonna build something with the g5 you need to start with a texas centric grouping. UH, smu, tulsa, tulane, & rice have some strong academics/endowments for the region. if the b12 ever breaks up (which has a good chance of happening) tcu/baylor and even tech would be prime cultural fits in a reorganized version of this league. You could mess around with cincy as an outlier school because they bring a lot to the table academically.

ACC is just as likely to split honestly. Depends on a number of factors over the next decade and neither is likely to break unless market factors work against them.

guess we have to agree to disagree. personally i am putting my money on the conference with a stronger geographical footprint, academics, rivalries, & historic bonds between members to be the one to survive.

the ACC IMO can use its academics, and the historic ties between certain schools to keep membership stable.

the b12 has one & only one incentive ==> money. If the b12 ever loses that (which only seem inevitable as the other conferences keep rising $$$ wise) they will go the way of the b8/swc.

(05-24-2014 08:07 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  G5 conference ideas have usually been based on geography, markets, academics, and school brands ( or "prestige"). Im wondering, could a conference built on the concept of monopolizing the best recruiting grounds work at the G5 level?

I was thinking that a southern G5 conference that essentially cut off the other G5's from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida might have an advantage over other G5 conferences and ride this advantage to slowly becoming the most dominant G5 on the field.

The concept would look something like this--


Houston
SMU
UTSA
TxSt
Rice
N Tx


Tulane
LaTch
UL-L


UCF
USF
FIU
FIA

S Miss
Ark St
UAB or Troy

This is a 16 team conference. It takes all the Texas G5's in the major populated portion of the state. I would think most Texas recruits would rather play for a team in this conference than any other G5 conference. My proposal takes 3 of 4 Louisiana G5's (thus recruits would likely prefer to play for this conference rather than any other G5), and all the Florida G5's.

Becoming the dominate G5 conference in the major recruiting areas required 13 schools. I then just tied the conference together as best I could by adding 3 more schools from 3 different states to expand the footprint for media and travel purposes.

I would think a conference like this would be quite a force in the key recruiting states of Texas, Florida, and Louisiana and might often win recruiting battles against cold weather P5's. You could reduce the footprint and put a tighter lock on recruiting by adding UL-M--but my concern is that it would limit the media appeal too much---but it would take the 'lock out" approach to its full potential. I do tend to think that having 3 of 4 G5's in a state is likely sufficient to allow the conference to dominate that state and Louisiana is kind of a small state to have 4 schools.

Divisions would be tricky, but I figure the Texas 6+ArkySt+Miss would be one division. The Florida 4+Louisiana 3+UAB would be the other. I don't think you would want to split up the state groupings.

Attack,

I spend too much time on this site, and I only average 1.97 posts per day.

You are averaging over 13.6 posts per day. While some of them are very good and informative and I genuinely like you, there are too many like this one that aren't worth wasting time with.

By that I mean: 1 ) the scenario you describe would never happen in a million years, and 2) it would suck for UH if by some tiny chance it did happen.

So why did you waste your time and creative energy composing this post?

If you cut down on some of these type posts, you could be one of the best members of this site.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend you, and I hope it does not come across like that. But when I read a post like this, I worry that you'll either: 1) burn out or 2) miss out on some of life's other pleasures if you continue at this rate.

CougarRed is right Attackcoog... This type scenario would suck for Houston.

(05-24-2014 10:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 09:42 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 04:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I think if you are gonna build something with the g5 you need to start with a texas centric grouping. UH, smu, tulsa, tulane, & rice have some strong academics/endowments for the region. if the b12 ever breaks up (which has a good chance of happening) tcu/baylor and even tech would be prime cultural fits in a reorganized version of this league. You could mess around with cincy as an outlier school because they bring a lot to the table academically.

ACC is just as likely to split honestly. Depends on a number of factors over the next decade and neither is likely to break unless market factors work against them.

guess we have to agree to disagree. personally i am putting my money on the conference with a stronger geographical footprint, academics, rivalries, & historic bonds between members to be the one to survive.

the ACC IMO can use its academics, and the historic ties between certain schools to keep membership stable.

the b12 has one & only one incentive ==> money. If the b12 ever loses that (which only seem inevitable as the other conferences keep rising $$$ wise) they will go the way of the b8/swc.

The Big 12 is stronger in the sport that matters, is paid more, and when ratings are compared fairly draws ratings above the ACC.

Either way agree to disagree or at minimum take it to private messaging where we don't derail the thread further.

(05-24-2014 11:23 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 08:07 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  G5 conference ideas have usually been based on geography, markets, academics, and school brands ( or "prestige"). Im wondering, could a conference built on the concept of monopolizing the best recruiting grounds work at the G5 level?

I was thinking that a southern G5 conference that essentially cut off the other G5's from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida might have an advantage over other G5 conferences and ride this advantage to slowly becoming the most dominant G5 on the field.

The concept would look something like this--


Houston
SMU
UTSA
TxSt
Rice
N Tx


Tulane
LaTch
UL-L


UCF
USF
FIU
FIA

S Miss
Ark St
UAB or Troy

This is a 16 team conference. It takes all the Texas G5's in the major populated portion of the state. I would think most Texas recruits would rather play for a team in this conference than any other G5 conference. My proposal takes 3 of 4 Louisiana G5's (thus recruits would likely prefer to play for this conference rather than any other G5), and all the Florida G5's.

Becoming the dominate G5 conference in the major recruiting areas required 13 schools. I then just tied the conference together as best I could by adding 3 more schools from 3 different states to expand the footprint for media and travel purposes.

I would think a conference like this would be quite a force in the key recruiting states of Texas, Florida, and Louisiana and might often win recruiting battles against cold weather P5's. You could reduce the footprint and put a tighter lock on recruiting by adding UL-M--but my concern is that it would limit the media appeal too much---but it would take the 'lock out" approach to its full potential. I do tend to think that having 3 of 4 G5's in a state is likely sufficient to allow the conference to dominate that state and Louisiana is kind of a small state to have 4 schools.

Divisions would be tricky, but I figure the Texas 6+ArkySt+Miss would be one division. The Florida 4+Louisiana 3+UAB would be the other. I don't think you would want to split up the state groupings.

Attack,

I spend too much time on this site, and I only average 1.97 posts per day.

You are averaging over 13.6 posts per day. While some of them are very good and informative and I genuinely like you, there are too many like this one that aren't worth wasting time with.

By that I mean: 1 ) the scenario you describe would never happen in a million years, and 2) it would suck for UH if by some tiny chance it did happen.

So why did you waste your time and creative energy composing this post?

If you cut down on some of these type posts, you could be one of the best members of this site.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend you, and I hope it does not come across like that. But when I read a post like this, I worry that you'll either: 1) burn out or 2) miss out on some of life's other pleasures if you continue at this rate.

CougarRed is right Attackcoog... This type scenario would suck for Houston.

Lol. Like that's something new. It's sucked for Houston since 1996. By the way, I'm not advocating it. I just thought is was a different concept for conference building that has never really been discussed. Welcome to the off season....football is still 100 days away.

(05-25-2014 12:41 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 11:23 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 08:07 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 03:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  G5 conference ideas have usually been based on geography, markets, academics, and school brands ( or "prestige"). Im wondering, could a conference built on the concept of monopolizing the best recruiting grounds work at the G5 level?

I was thinking that a southern G5 conference that essentially cut off the other G5's from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida might have an advantage over other G5 conferences and ride this advantage to slowly becoming the most dominant G5 on the field.

The concept would look something like this--


Houston
SMU
UTSA
TxSt
Rice
N Tx


Tulane
LaTch
UL-L


UCF
USF
FIU
FIA

S Miss
Ark St
UAB or Troy

This is a 16 team conference. It takes all the Texas G5's in the major populated portion of the state. I would think most Texas recruits would rather play for a team in this conference than any other G5 conference. My proposal takes 3 of 4 Louisiana G5's (thus recruits would likely prefer to play for this conference rather than any other G5), and all the Florida G5's.

Becoming the dominate G5 conference in the major recruiting areas required 13 schools. I then just tied the conference together as best I could by adding 3 more schools from 3 different states to expand the footprint for media and travel purposes.

I would think a conference like this would be quite a force in the key recruiting states of Texas, Florida, and Louisiana and might often win recruiting battles against cold weather P5's. You could reduce the footprint and put a tighter lock on recruiting by adding UL-M--but my concern is that it would limit the media appeal too much---but it would take the 'lock out" approach to its full potential. I do tend to think that having 3 of 4 G5's in a state is likely sufficient to allow the conference to dominate that state and Louisiana is kind of a small state to have 4 schools.

Divisions would be tricky, but I figure the Texas 6+ArkySt+Miss would be one division. The Florida 4+Louisiana 3+UAB would be the other. I don't think you would want to split up the state groupings.

Attack,

I spend too much time on this site, and I only average 1.97 posts per day.

You are averaging over 13.6 posts per day. While some of them are very good and informative and I genuinely like you, there are too many like this one that aren't worth wasting time with.

By that I mean: 1 ) the scenario you describe would never happen in a million years, and 2) it would suck for UH if by some tiny chance it did happen.

So why did you waste your time and creative energy composing this post?

If you cut down on some of these type posts, you could be one of the best members of this site.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend you, and I hope it does not come across like that. But when I read a post like this, I worry that you'll either: 1) burn out or 2) miss out on some of life's other pleasures if you continue at this rate.

CougarRed is right Attackcoog... This type scenario would suck for Houston.

Lol. Like that's something new. It's sucked for Houston since 1996. By the way, I'm not advocating it. I just thought is was a different concept for conference building that has never really been discussed. Welcome to the off season....football is still 100 days away.

I'm well aware what Houston has gone through over the years, Attackcoog... And yes, I know this is the offseason, not much else to discuss, unfortunately.

From a recruiting standpoint, the AAC is already the best G5 conference ever conceived.

Think what CUSA had, Houston and South Florida.

In the AAC

Houston AND SMU

South Florida AND Central Florida

Let's throw out a scenario, UConn to the B1G. That would make B1G basketball twice as exciting and help their new hockey conference.

The AAC then doubles down in Louisiana and Ohio, along with adding Buffalo to get into the NYC market.

AAC: SMU, Houston, Tulane, Louisiana, Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati, Ohio, UCF, USF, ECU, Navy, Temple, Buffalo

Double down to get more rivalries in conference and greater market presence. An exploding Louisiana program for instance that makes a couple of Access Bowls might be the key to keeping he western schools on board with the AAC.

I would not fart around with So.Miss. Clearly they are a program of the past. Don't try to copy CUSA 2.0 or 3.0. Go with some rising programs like Louisiana and Ohio.

these types of threads always start out as wheels off because they jump right to 14 or 16 teams because "that is what the big boys are doing"

and yea exactly that is what THE BIG BOYS ARE DOING and I don't know anyone that has ever been truly successful in anything by offering the exact same thing as the much longer established, more financially sound, more popular and better known competition is doing

grouping up a bunch of schools in "big markets" that they have failed to deliver is pretty much repackaging the same thing that has never worked in the past and pretending it is different

14 teams sucks and is a scheduling nightmare

16 teams pretty much means you are having a conference circle jerk playing with each other and thus building no strength of schedule and delivering nothing other than a less popular and more poorly funded version of what is already available......it is like some silly Sunbelt or CUSA fans wondering if 9 conference games is "the way to go" because of course the big boys are doing it.......but of course the big boys are doing it because the vast majority of their teams bring at least some recognition, fan support, viewers and possible the same or even better strength of opponent than some Sunbelt or Conference USA team brings.......while another conference game between teams that are viewed as weak is just this weeks poorly viewed and attended snooze fest pillow fight of the week

conferences gain strength by kicking the crap out of teams from outside the conference either in OOC games or in bowl games and then starting the next season ranked and repeating the same thing.......they don't gain strength because every school in the conference was 7-5 or 6-6 or 5-7, but they played each other really hard and lost two or three OOC games along the way

a better idea would be to have 8 teams and play 7 conference games and 5 OOC games and try and kick the crap out of at least 4 of those other teams you play and then try and get one team or two teams to have a really good record at the end of the year and pretty much 5-6 others in bowl games and they win those bowl games

14-16 teams is just giving 2-3 teams a chance to end up rising to the top year in and year out before they potentially move elsewhere POSSIBLY even to a P5 conference

there are 65 P5 teams now that BYU has been excluded by some of the P5 from being considered as "worthy" and there are 3 service academies that no one is going to want to leave behind if they express interest in hanging around so that is 68 teams

the very least that has ever been talked about for a new "power division" is 64 teams so IF (and it is a big IF) the service academies were included in that 64 team grouping and it was only 64 teams that means 4 others will be left behind and there is a slim chance that could be TCU, Iowa State, Texas Tech or Baylor and then one other and there is every chance it could be Wake Forest, Syracuse, Duke, Boston College or even Vanderbilt, Northwestern or Washington State

and the REALITY is it won't be any of them because there is not going to be ANY team from the non-P5 conferences with the exception of the three service academies that gives ANY current P5 team "the boot" so they can move up and the REALITY is the schools that would be "in play" like Texas and OU are not going to ditch TCU, Tech, Baylor, ISU or KSU so they can go on their own to some far away conference that leaves them with few if any long term rivals or away games that fans can easily reach or that places them in recruiting grounds that are weak or where they rarely if ever recruit

and they are CERTAINLY not going to sit around and swap out Boise for ISU and Cincy for Baylor and UH for Texas Tech or TCU or some none sense like that

and the reality is IF.....and it is a BIG IF there was 4 schools dumped so that the three service academies could stick around and so that there would be 64 teams and not 65 with ND in a conference there will still be ZERO other programs moving up because no conference is going to swap teams

lets say the PAC 12 takes Texas, OU, OkState and Kansas ok so the PAC 12 is not full sorry Boise sorry SDSU, Fresno, CSU

or the PAC 12 takes Texas and OU and Air Force and OkState so again the PAC 12 is full.........the Big 10 takes KU and someone else......that someone else is NOT going to be Cincy, UH, SMU or FIU, FAU, USF or UCF period the end.......it would be Army

and then the ACC needs Navy and they are full......so that would leave Texas Tech, KSU, ISU, TCU, Baylor and WVU for the SEC.....the SEC is NOT going to call SMU, UH, USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, Tulane, Tulsa, or Cincy they will take WVU and Texas Tech most likely

and there is DEFINITELY not going to be any nonsense where there is major reforming of conferences and somehow multiple members of the 65 (or 68 if you count the service academies) get left out in the cold so some new conferences can form and when 6-8 of the ones left out of the PAC 12 SEC and Big 10 ignore a ton of existing P5 members and start grabbing "markets" from the non-P5 schools while leaving existing P5 schools out in the cold especially since that would automatically be the weakest of the weak conferences and it would be some hodge podge of "markets" spread all over the USA with no history, no TV contract and a bunch of schools most of the P% wishes they had left behind for good

again if something happens the major players are not going to go crazy and make themselves all really really super tough power conferences of the SEC with top teams from the ACC and the Big 10 with top ACC teams and the PAC 12 with top Big 12 teams and then one conference of Texas Tech, WVU, UH, SMU, KSU, Cincy, USF, UCF three service academies and whoever else from "markets" or from anything else.....if they were to do that they would be planning on just finding a way to leave some collection of 4 from Army, Air Force, Navy, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Syracuse, WVU, TCU, ISU, KSU and whoever else for dead and move on with 64 and the reality is I don't think the service academies would really make a push to stay and that means that only one team needs the boot and again if they are busting up either the ACC or Big 12 to give one the boot they are not at the same time going to give a few more the boot and start mixing in Tulane, UH, SMU, Cincy, CSU, Boise or anyone else because to give the boot they need to bust up ONE conference not take the best of two conferences and then watch the rest of what is left of those two reform -1 to form a garbage 4th conference or worse yet start trying to form a garbage conference of "markets" that those "market teams" have NEVER delivered......they will end up right back where they are now with the left overs of the ACC and the left overs of the Big 12 trying to add teams to each be the last of the 4 "power conferences" when they are really a collection of teams that the power conferences wish they could ditch most of.....so the purpose of going to 64 would be DEFEATED.....and if they finally do it they are going to finally get it done period

the top teams from the ACC are not going to join the SEC or Big 10 and watch the teams they leave behind join up with the teams left behind in the Big 12 (minus one of them or minus one from the ACC) to be some horrible conference and again they are not going to watch their left overs pick up non-P5 members to form that horrible 4th conference while former P5 schools are left behind and those that are left behind are not just going to say "OK we were left behind" they are going to hold onto media contracts and access bowl contracts NCAA distributions and the like and try and add a few teams to keep those whole......and again you are at 3 power conferences and two mismatched weak conferences hoping to be the weak 4th power conference eventually

(05-25-2014 02:35 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  these types of threads always start out as wheels off because they jump right to 14 or 16 teams because "that is what the big boys are doing"

and yea exactly that is what THE BIG BOYS ARE DOING and I don't know anyone that has ever been truly successful in anything by offering the exact same thing as the much longer established, more financially sound, more popular and better known competition is doing

grouping up a bunch of schools in "big markets" that they have failed to deliver is pretty much repackaging the same thing that has never worked in the past and pretending it is different

14 teams sucks and is a scheduling nightmare

16 teams pretty much means you are having a conference circle jerk playing with each other and thus building no strength of schedule and delivering nothing other than a less popular and more poorly funded version of what is already available......it is like some silly Sunbelt or CUSA fans wondering if 9 conference games is "the way to go" because of course the big boys are doing it.......but of course the big boys are doing it because the vast majority of their teams bring at least some recognition, fan support, viewers and possible the same or even better strength of opponent than some Sunbelt or Conference USA team brings.......while another conference game between teams that are viewed as weak is just this weeks poorly viewed and attended snooze fest pillow fight of the week

conferences gain strength by kicking the crap out of teams from outside the conference either in OOC games or in bowl games and then starting the next season ranked and repeating the same thing.......they don't gain strength because every school in the conference was 7-5 or 6-6 or 5-7, but they played each other really hard and lost two or three OOC games along the way

a better idea would be to have 8 teams and play 7 conference games and 5 OOC games and try and kick the crap out of at least 4 of those other teams you play and then try and get one team or two teams to have a really good record at the end of the year and pretty much 5-6 others in bowl games and they win those bowl games

14-16 teams is just giving 2-3 teams a chance to end up rising to the top year in and year out before they potentially move elsewhere POSSIBLY even to a P5 conference

there are 65 P5 teams now that BYU has been excluded by some of the P5 from being considered as "worthy" and there are 3 service academies that no one is going to want to leave behind if they express interest in hanging around so that is 68 teams

the very least that has ever been talked about for a new "power division" is 64 teams so IF (and it is a big IF) the service academies were included in that 64 team grouping and it was only 64 teams that means 4 others will be left behind and there is a slim chance that could be TCU, Iowa State, Texas Tech or Baylor and then one other and there is every chance it could be Wake Forest, Syracuse, Duke, Boston College or even Vanderbilt, Northwestern or Washington State

and the REALITY is it won't be any of them because there is not going to be ANY team from the non-P5 conferences with the exception of the three service academies that gives ANY current P5 team "the boot" so they can move up and the REALITY is the schools that would be "in play" like Texas and OU are not going to ditch TCU, Tech, Baylor, ISU or KSU so they can go on their own to some far away conference that leaves them with few if any long term rivals or away games that fans can easily reach or that places them in recruiting grounds that are weak or where they rarely if ever recruit

and they are CERTAINLY not going to sit around and swap out Boise for ISU and Cincy for Baylor and UH for Texas Tech or TCU or some none sense like that

and the reality is IF.....and it is a BIG IF there was 4 schools dumped so that the three service academies could stick around and so that there would be 64 teams and not 65 with ND in a conference there will still be ZERO other programs moving up because no conference is going to swap teams

lets say the PAC 12 takes Texas, OU, OkState and Kansas ok so the PAC 12 is not full sorry Boise sorry SDSU, Fresno, CSU

or the PAC 12 takes Texas and OU and Air Force and OkState so again the PAC 12 is full.........the Big 10 takes KU and someone else......that someone else is NOT going to be Cincy, UH, SMU or FIU, FAU, USF or UCF period the end.......it would be Army

and then the ACC needs Navy and they are full......so that would leave Texas Tech, KSU, ISU, TCU, Baylor and WVU for the SEC.....the SEC is NOT going to call SMU, UH, USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, Tulane, Tulsa, or Cincy they will take WVU and Texas Tech most likely

and there is DEFINITELY not going to be any nonsense where there is major reforming of conferences and somehow multiple members of the 65 (or 68 if you count the service academies) get left out in the cold so some new conferences can form and when 6-8 of the ones left out of the PAC 12 SEC and Big 10 ignore a ton of existing P5 members and start grabbing "markets" from the non-P5 schools while leaving existing P5 schools out in the cold especially since that would automatically be the weakest of the weak conferences and it would be some hodge podge of "markets" spread all over the USA with no history, no TV contract and a bunch of schools most of the P% wishes they had left behind for good

again if something happens the major players are not going to go crazy and make themselves all really really super tough power conferences of the SEC with top teams from the ACC and the Big 10 with top ACC teams and the PAC 12 with top Big 12 teams and then one conference of Texas Tech, WVU, UH, SMU, KSU, Cincy, USF, UCF three service academies and whoever else from "markets" or from anything else.....if they were to do that they would be planning on just finding a way to leave some collection of 4 from Army, Air Force, Navy, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Syracuse, WVU, TCU, ISU, KSU and whoever else for dead and move on with 64 and the reality is I don't think the service academies would really make a push to stay and that means that only one team needs the boot and again if they are busting up either the ACC or Big 12 to give one the boot they are not at the same time going to give a few more the boot and start mixing in Tulane, UH, SMU, Cincy, CSU, Boise or anyone else because to give the boot they need to bust up ONE conference not take the best of two conferences and then watch the rest of what is left of those two reform -1 to form a garbage 4th conference or worse yet start trying to form a garbage conference of "markets" that those "market teams" have NEVER delivered......they will end up right back where they are now with the left overs of the ACC and the left overs of the Big 12 trying to add teams to each be the last of the 4 "power conferences" when they are really a collection of teams that the power conferences wish they could ditch most of.....so the purpose of going to 64 would be DEFEATED.....and if they finally do it they are going to finally get it done period

the top teams from the ACC are not going to join the SEC or Big 10 and watch the teams they leave behind join up with the teams left behind in the Big 12 (minus one of them or minus one from the ACC) to be some horrible conference and again they are not going to watch their left overs pick up non-P5 members to form that horrible 4th conference while former P5 schools are left behind and those that are left behind are not just going to say "OK we were left behind" they are going to hold onto media contracts and access bowl contracts NCAA distributions and the like and try and add a few teams to keep those whole......and again you are at 3 power conferences and two mismatched weak conferences hoping to be the weak 4th power conference eventually

I have no idea what you are talking about or how it pertains to the thread at hand.

Better yet after thinking about this more just a Texas Conference. Texas is one of the few states that could pull this off and make it work, I believe.

UH
SMU
Rice
UTEP
North Texas
Tx St
UTSA
UTA ( revive their FBS program)

Have a round robin conference of play my guesstimate of attendance would be in the 30-35k (do to the natural rivalries) or more for most games once conference play is established....the teams could schedule 4 OOC games.

(05-25-2014 02:35 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  again if something happens the major players are not going to go crazy and make themselves all really really super tough power conferences of the SEC with top teams from the ACC and the Big 10 with top ACC teams and the PAC 12 with top Big 12 teams and then one conference of Texas Tech, WVU, UH, SMU, KSU, Cincy, USF, UCF three service academies and whoever else from "markets" or from anything else.....if they were to do that they would be planning on just finding a way to leave some collection of 4 from Army, Air Force, Navy, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Syracuse, WVU, TCU, ISU, KSU and whoever else for dead and move on with 64 and the reality is I don't think the service academies would really make a push to stay and that means that only one team needs the boot and again if they are busting up either the ACC or Big 12 to give one the boot they are not at the same time going to give a few more the boot and start mixing in Tulane, UH, SMU, Cincy, CSU, Boise or anyone else because to give the boot they need to bust up ONE conference not take the best of two conferences and then watch the rest of what is left of those two reform -1 to form a garbage 4th conference or worse yet start trying to form a garbage conference of "markets" that those "market teams" have NEVER delivered......they will end up right back where they are now with the left overs of the ACC and the left overs of the Big 12 trying to add teams to each be the last of the 4 "power conferences" when they are really a collection of teams that the power conferences wish they could ditch most of.....so the purpose of going to 64 would be DEFEATED.....and if they finally do it they are going to finally get it done period

the top teams from the ACC are not going to join the SEC or Big 10 and watch the teams they leave behind join up with the teams left behind in the Big 12 (minus one of them or minus one from the ACC) to be some horrible conference and again they are not going to watch their left overs pick up non-P5 members to form that horrible 4th conference while former P5 schools are left behind and those that are left behind are not just going to say "OK we were left behind" they are going to hold onto media contracts and access bowl contracts NCAA distributions and the like and try and add a few teams to keep those whole......and again you are at 3 power conferences and two mismatched weak conferences hoping to be the weak 4th power conference eventually

You are trying to touch on too many points in one post.

I think the 10 conference setup of P5 (PAC, SEC, B1G, ACC, B12) and G5 (AAC, MWC, MAC, CUSA, SBC) is a good balance for FBS.

I see the value in a few more adds by the P5 if it can help them strategically by moving from 14 to 15 members.

B1G (UConn to 15)
ACC (Cincinnati to 15)
SEC (East Carolina to 15)

Then some G5 fallout.....

AAC (Old Dominion, Charlotte, UMASS FB ONLY)
CUSA (Louisiana, Ark State)
SBC (Holds at 9, NMSU all sport)

This would straighten out a lot of geography issues for everyone. Hopefully the P5 pulls the trigger on one more realignment once the championship game is deregulated.