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How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth...or a new football only FBS conference?
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insomniaisevil Offline
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Exclamation How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth...or a new football only FBS conference?
I'm fully aware that this is going to seem insane, but at least stick with me here...

I keep reading all of these different ideas about teams for the Sunbelt, including call ups that have hit a wall. There are also some other teams like BYU that are running into some issues themselves. Sometimes there can needs to be an out of the box idea to solve the problems...

How about a rebirth of WAC football? Now hear out the plan...

The WAC itself is struggling as is and needs to find ways to keep itself alive. That obviously includes needing to find motivation to keep a school like NMSU around, for one, and motivating other schools to stay or even join.

How about they try and get a seat at the table and make the G5 into the G6. There have to be some people on their side. The WAC name still means SOMETHING and it would seem to benefit the MWC and the PAC12 to have another FBS conference in the neighborhood, but it doesn't stop there.

What if they do two things at once, become a safe haven for orphans or potential call ups AND build the conference at the same time?

Let's look at potential members:

NMSU football- wouldn't they like housing everything together again? It's not like they WANTED to be in the position they are in.

Idaho football- I'm sure they'd like a more long term home for football...and maybe get them back for everything.

Current WAC schools...maybe the rebranded UT-RGV wants football? What about Grand Canyon?

Lamar/SHSU/Montana/Montana St/any other school in the footprint- what if these school were given an easy route to get a seat at the table. Especially Lamar or SHSU who have seemed interested already.

Then...how about adding football only members for a while? Maybe these aren't long term relationships, but when it's only for football, there are ways this could work. Especially for those who can't find anywhere else to go...

Liberty/EKU/Missouri State- they wanted to move up anyway, here is their chance. Maybe Missouri State wants in for everything, as it would give UMKC a travel friend for other sports. I would think EKU and Liberty might jump at getting their foot in the door.

UMass- how about a home for football for as long as they want?

BYU/Army- no joke here. Maybe it's more of a scheduling alliance for them...but they at LEAST get the G5(6) access everyone else has and would have a chance to win games here.

Youngstown State- they just got a new president. They wanted in the MAC in the past, maybe this is their chance to move up.

Any of the Dakota schools- there has been talk of them wanting to move up in the past, maybe this would present and interesting scenario for that to happen.

Jacksonville State/any other school that has been talked about as a potential call up- this would give them somewhere to get moving, even if it was only for now.

Villanova- they wanted to move up in the past, maybe a package of them and UMass makes it interesting.

Yes, I know, screw geography here, but there are some motivated schools for different reasons.

Let's say you get the following just for football-

West-
NMSU
Idaho
Lamar
SHSU

East-
UMass
Liberty
EKU
Missouri St

Now you've got 8...and a conference. Maybe entice a couple of the others and you get somewhere. It gets the WAC exposure. Maybe they team up with one of the newer sports stations who need content like Fox Sports 1.

Then if you could get any of those schools to join as all sports members, you start to solidify the actual WAC itself or get someone like UTPA(RGV) to start football and keep them in as well.

Is this crazy? Sure it is. But who blinks here? NMSU, Idaho and UMass need real homes. Most of those other schools are dying for a chance to move up and this would allow them to do that, en masse. Sure there is a massive chance of turnover for a while, but maybe that's not all bad at first. Just gain enough schools to stay safely over 8 and then start focusing on moving schools into the WAC itself as all sports, to save and regrow the conference, and slowly move away from having too much hybrid.

I'm not saying this WILL happen, but it seemed an interesting talking point and at least something a little different.

This might not be more crazy than some of the other ideas I'm reading the last couple days either. :)

I know that was amazingly long-winded, but the idea kept expanding in my head.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2014 12:12 PM by insomniaisevil.)
05-20-2014 07:43 PM
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insomniaisevil Offline
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Post: #2
RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
For those who are thinking "tl;dr"...

Basically how about WAC football reboots as a G5/6 conference again and becomes a home for some orphans schools, gives FCS callups an easy entry point into FBS (as they can't move up as independents anymore) through what would basically be a football only scheduling alliance and helps re-establish and solidify the WAC all-sports conference in the process?

So crazy it could actually work.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2014 08:25 PM by insomniaisevil.)
05-20-2014 08:22 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #3
RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
Wac football is dead. Per Jeff Hurd.
05-20-2014 08:33 PM
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insomniaisevil Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
(05-20-2014 08:33 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  Wac football is dead. Per Jeff Hurd.

Oh, I know all that. The WAC is close to being dead though, period. Pretty sure that Hurd needs to get a little more creative.

Perhaps this could be done in a way that is similar to the MVFC or CAA where the football piece is almost a second entity that is only connected to the main conference.

I get that it's a crazy idea, but so is a lot of what I've been reading on here lately.

At least wanted to give something different to talk about.
05-20-2014 08:48 PM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
You need 8 full members playing football to be an FBS conference. (You can get temporary waivers, but you have to be FBS to get them.)
05-20-2014 09:07 PM
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insomniaisevil Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
(05-20-2014 09:07 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  You need 8 full members playing football to be an FBS conference. (You can get temporary waivers, but you have to be FBS to get them.)

Ok, so much for the fun, but I thought that it was about having 8 members, not 8 full conference members.

I don't know the rules for the 1 sport conferences either, like the MVFC, where it's part of the larger MVC...sort of.
05-20-2014 09:11 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #7
How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
In some ways the moratorium killed the WAC - had a school like Montana been able to join the WAC when it was stronger, the WAC might have been able to keep enough FBS members to successfully transition FCS schools. Once the WAC got below four non-transitional members (remember UTSA and Texas State were transitional, and UTSA was actually a year behind Texas State), it got to the point where it could not be rebuilt.

Also keep in mind that the P5 has to maintain at least a majority of the FBS membership to keep the cartel in power. Had the WAC successfully got back up to 12 in addition to the other G5 conferences, the P5 would be down at least 65-72 if not as much as 65-75 (Army, Navy, BYU all independent).

At 137-140 schools in FBS, either the Big East/American is part of the cartel, or the Big 12 and Pac 12 may be forced to go 14 each. Even at 5x14 plus Notre Dame, the P5 could find themselves without a majority. Simply put, only 2 of the American, WAC, or Mountain West could survive for the cartel to maintain a minimal majority. No WAC football made it easier to kick the American out of the top half of FBS.

If the Sun Belt adds two more FCS schools like some think they will, and both Idaho and UMass survive as FBS programs, watch for the Big 12 to grab two more to tip the scales back in favor of the P5 at 67-64. The way the CFP contract is written, C-USA will never reload back to 14 schools.
05-20-2014 09:34 PM
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insomniaisevil Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
(05-20-2014 09:34 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  In some ways the moratorium killed the WAC - had a school like Montana been able to join the WAC when it was stronger, the WAC might have been able to keep enough FBS members to successfully transition FCS schools. Once the WAC got below four non-transitional members (remember UTSA and Texas State were transitional, and UTSA was actually a year behind Texas State), it got to the point where it could not be rebuilt.

I do remember all this, but not all the details of the moratorium.

Your other ideas about who controls what make almost too much sense.

I just sort of had a wild idea. It's mostly about the fact there seem to be a lot of schools who either need a decent landing spot, even if temporary, along with a lot of schools looks to bounce up from FCS, but can't find a way in the door. Seems like all those schools could come to some sort of mutual agreement. The WAC banner was mostly about a way to make the pieces fit.

I'm not sure the one sport conference rules otherwise. What would it take to create a Pioneer Conference situation in FBS, where a bunch of schools who mostly just need either other work together? I'm sure plenty of you know the details of that answer.
05-20-2014 09:46 PM
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msu_bears Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
(05-20-2014 07:43 PM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  Liberty/EKU/Missouri State- they wanted to move up anyway, here is their chance. Maybe Missouri State wants in for everything, as it would give UMKC a travel friend for other sports. I would think EKU and Liberty might jump at getting their foot in the door.

West-
NMSU
Idaho
Lamar
SHSU

East-
UMass
Liberty
EKU
Missouri St

As an MO State fan:
football only, I'm interested, maybe bring some other MVFC schools like Ill St so we have some nearby rivals.

All sports: HELL NO. I'd rather stay FCS and play MVC teams in basketball over those other teams. UMASS obviously isn't joining that in all sports either.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2014 09:56 PM by msu_bears.)
05-20-2014 09:54 PM
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insomniaisevil Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
(05-20-2014 09:54 PM)msu_bears Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 07:43 PM)insomniaisevil Wrote:  Liberty/EKU/Missouri State- they wanted to move up anyway, here is their chance. Maybe Missouri State wants in for everything, as it would give UMKC a travel friend for other sports. I would think EKU and Liberty might jump at getting their foot in the door.

West-
NMSU
Idaho
Lamar
SHSU

East-
UMass
Liberty
EKU
Missouri St

As an MO State fan:
football only, I'm interested, maybe bring some other MVFC schools like Ill St so we have some nearby rivals.

All sports: HELL NO. I'd rather stay FCS and play MVC teams in basketball over those other teams. UMASS obviously isn't joining that in all sports either.

Oh, no thoughts of anyone like UMass/Liberty/EKU as all sports members. I simply mentioned Missouri State as a maybe due to the proximity to UMKC who is already in.

Are any of the other MVFC schools looking to move up? I just threw out a few names that keep being mentioned as ready or almost ready to go like Lamar/SHSU/Missouri State/EKU/Liberty. I'm sure there are more. I mentioned Youngstown State, who were looking MAC at one point and who have a new president who might like to move the school up.

Maybe the West stays as all sports and the East stays as football only, sort of the reverse of what the Big East was going to do.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2014 10:21 PM by insomniaisevil.)
05-20-2014 10:16 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
Its going to be an uphill climb for any new G level conference to get established.

One aspect is the 8 full football member rule to qualify as an FBS conference. Idaho, NMSU and Texas St potentially give you 3. I'm guessing you need at least 6 full FBS members in one region to have a chance of resurrecting the WAC because you can't play too many transitioning schools at one time.

Secondly, the G5 deal with the CFP is specifically for the SBC, CUSA, MWC, MAC and AAC. Any new FBS conference trying to form would not be privy to the CFP deal, therefore why would NMSU or Idaho support bringing WAC football back?

We could be headed to a G4 if you think about it. The SBC has to maintain at least 6 transitioned members to stay afloat and they only have 11.

Consider these moves:

B12: Cincinnati, BYU
B1G: UConn
Ind: Navy
AAC: ODU, Buffalo, UMass
MWC: UTEP, NMSU
MAC: App State
CUSA: Ark State, ULL, Georgia St, Texas St

That leaves the SBC down to Idaho, ULM, Troy, South Alabama, USA, Georgia Southern. That is cutting it pretty close for the SBC.
05-20-2014 11:29 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
The simple truth is the only way to rebuild the wac would be 8 eastern schools all sports.
Since jmu wouldnt join the sbc count them out
mo st wouldnt join all sport -2

so that leaves liberty
Jax St
EKU

May join all sports but may not.
Nmsu
and idaho

so that leaves 3 to 5 eastern schools within reasonable driving distance
shsu
lamar
utc

As soon as there is more realignment they will need more schools so they will need probably 2-4 more than that.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2014 06:50 AM by cleburneslim.)
05-21-2014 06:47 AM
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LUcanesfan Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
The problem with a WAC rebirth is that if the WAC do get 8 football playing members, the next conference realignment shift would decimate them again. If Hurd can get schools to sign a 4 year commitment plan, they could get by, but that's been the WAC's problem - schools do not want to stay put.

The WAC tried to get Montana several times, but to no avail. So therefore, I'm going to make the assumption that Montana and the other Big Sky schools are going to stay in the Big Sky. The next round of candidates will be from schools that have already made it known that they want FBS: Liberty, Jax State, Lamar and SHSU. The other cast of potential members are from the MVFC: ND State, Northern Iowa, Youngstown St., Missouri State, and possibly Illinois State and Southern Illinois. The last set of schools that could possibly candidates are: UMass as FB-Only (once their MAC deal expires and if the Sun Belt does not offer them a life-line), Villanova as a FB-Only and EKU.

In conclusion, if the WAC can get 8 of the following to be full-members, they will be back in business:

Liberty
Jacksonville State
Lamar
Sam Houston State
Youngstown State
Eastern Kentucky
North Dakota State
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Northern Iowa

Possible FB-Only candidates:
UMass
Villanova
Idaho

*I'm not sure if Idaho would be interested in this set-up, but with the Sun Belt having the right to void the last 2 years of their 4 year contract, they might have no choice in the matter. It's either Big Sky for all-sports including football or the new WAC as maybe a FB-Only member with their Olympic sports in the Big Sky.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2014 07:14 AM by LUcanesfan.)
05-21-2014 07:13 AM
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MJG Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
A football only conference like the MVFC would be ideal.
Rules would need to be changed but it would make for better conferences.

Some schools like Liberty who may have what it takes but no invite can challenge the invitation rule. Plenty of schools would have never been given a invitation if that was always a rule.
05-21-2014 10:22 AM
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dtd_vandal Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
(05-21-2014 07:13 AM)LUcanesfan Wrote:  The problem with a WAC rebirth is that if the WAC do get 8 football playing members, the next conference realignment shift would decimate them again. If Hurd can get schools to sign a 4 year commitment plan, they could get by, but that's been the WAC's problem - schools do not want to stay put.

The WAC tried to get Montana several times, but to no avail. So therefore, I'm going to make the assumption that Montana and the other Big Sky schools are going to stay in the Big Sky. The next round of candidates will be from schools that have already made it known that they want FBS: Liberty, Jax State, Lamar and SHSU. The other cast of potential members are from the MVFC: ND State, Northern Iowa, Youngstown St., Missouri State, and possibly Illinois State and Southern Illinois. The last set of schools that could possibly candidates are: UMass as FB-Only (once their MAC deal expires and if the Sun Belt does not offer them a life-line), Villanova as a FB-Only and EKU.

In conclusion, if the WAC can get 8 of the following to be full-members, they will be back in business:

Liberty
Jacksonville State
Lamar
Sam Houston State
Youngstown State
Eastern Kentucky
North Dakota State
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Northern Iowa

Possible FB-Only candidates:
UMass
Villanova
Idaho

*I'm not sure if Idaho would be interested in this set-up, but with the Sun Belt having the right to void the last 2 years of their 4 year contract, they might have no choice in the matter. It's either Big Sky for all-sports including football or the new WAC as maybe a FB-Only member with their Olympic sports in the Big Sky.

Just a small correction, the Sun Belt doesn't have the right to void the last 2 years of the contract. The 2 year time period mentioned is when the Sun Belt meets to decide whether to extend the 4 year contract or not.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2014 11:40 AM by dtd_vandal.)
05-21-2014 11:39 AM
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LSUtah Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
There is enough subpar FCS football inventory already that cannot get media coverage. Why make more...
05-21-2014 11:43 AM
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insomniaisevil Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
(05-21-2014 10:22 AM)MJG Wrote:  A football only conference like the MVFC would be ideal.
Rules would need to be changed but it would make for better conferences.

Some schools like Liberty who may have what it takes but no invite can challenge the invitation rule. Plenty of schools would have never been given a invitation if that was always a rule.


That's sort of what my idea changed into, though maybe it could fly under the WAC banner to help that conference? Just a thought.

That said, if you get mostly call ups at first, they aren't bowl eligible for 2 years anyway. This would give a new conference 2 years to secure bowls and try and get involved in the playoff system. A lot could happen between now and then.

Something like what the FCS has in the Pioneer League seems to be a reference point here. I say that due to that league sort of being a catch all for schools who simply need each other to house their football programs. Maybe this new conference could develop into something more over time, but that's sort of a place to start for all these schools thinking about moving up with no place to go.
05-21-2014 11:49 AM
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insomniaisevil Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth (sort of)
(05-21-2014 07:13 AM)LUcanesfan Wrote:  The problem with a WAC rebirth is that if the WAC do get 8 football playing members, the next conference realignment shift would decimate them again. If Hurd can get schools to sign a 4 year commitment plan, they could get by, but that's been the WAC's problem - schools do not want to stay put.

The WAC tried to get Montana several times, but to no avail. So therefore, I'm going to make the assumption that Montana and the other Big Sky schools are going to stay in the Big Sky. The next round of candidates will be from schools that have already made it known that they want FBS: Liberty, Jax State, Lamar and SHSU. The other cast of potential members are from the MVFC: ND State, Northern Iowa, Youngstown St., Missouri State, and possibly Illinois State and Southern Illinois. The last set of schools that could possibly candidates are: UMass as FB-Only (once their MAC deal expires and if the Sun Belt does not offer them a life-line), Villanova as a FB-Only and EKU.

In conclusion, if the WAC can get 8 of the following to be full-members, they will be back in business:

Liberty
Jacksonville State
Lamar
Sam Houston State
Youngstown State
Eastern Kentucky
North Dakota State
Missouri State
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Northern Iowa

Possible FB-Only candidates:
UMass
Villanova
Idaho

*I'm not sure if Idaho would be interested in this set-up, but with the Sun Belt having the right to void the last 2 years of their 4 year contract, they might have no choice in the matter. It's either Big Sky for all-sports including football or the new WAC as maybe a FB-Only member with their Olympic sports in the Big Sky.

Exactly what I was getting at here. Find 8 or more to start. Try and keep the conference closer to 12 (or more) at all times, even if there could be a bit of a revolving door aspect for teams looking to find other homes.

It would give some interesting options for those who were football only, especially if it was a one sport type conference. It gives a team like Idaho a nice chance to stay comfortably in the Big Sky or allows Villanova a chance to move up without leaving the nBE.
05-21-2014 11:52 AM
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insomniaisevil Offline
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RE: How about a crazy idea...the WAC rebirth...or a new football only FBS conference?
No SBC expansion makes this more...interesting.
05-21-2014 01:29 PM
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