Greg Wrubell is the insider of insiders at BYU. He's the play by play guy for both basketball and football, and runs the largest BYU blog.

As most of you know, the Elders select carefully those who are the face of the Cougars. Well, Wrubell is on fire today on twitter with the BYU news. I encourage you to follow him. He is a fantastic resource who allows you to see behind the BYU curtain. He also is a great guy, and will correspond with fans (polite ones of course).

He wrote this:

Greg Wrubell @gregwrubell ·
Currently, the Big 12 is the only conference without a title game. It's also the league with the most room to grow.

Greg Wrubell @gregwrubell ·
Tom Holmoe has suggested that another realignment shift could be coming; I presume he is working hard to find a way for BYU to be involved.

https://twitter.com/gregwrubell

I reached out to a NATIONAL writer regarding this news and asked about BYU, and in turn I was told if he had to guess, what he called "the little engine that could" would be equally the one to watch. That was a reference to Cincy, Santa, and how they have come to be looked at in realignment.

So BYU and Cinci to the Big 12?

Interesting...I have been traveling all week so have not been listening to local sports radio. I imagine that this is a reaction to the ACC/SEC announcement that a BYU game would not fulfill the 9th OOC P5 commitment.

Safe to say BYU overplayed their hand in negotiations with the Big12 in the last shift...and are now entering full panic mode. The fact that Utah has a seat at the table and access to the playoff while BYU does not is hard for the local fanbase to swallow.

I can't wait to hear the local banter...

The realignment won't come till after 2025 if anything. Perhaps he was talking about the G5? Big 12 isn't going to expand and if they do, it'll be east with Cincy is my best guess.

BYU is the one player in this that I can see now having the desire and ability to least force some consideration of expansion. I think each of the power 5 are pretty satisfied right now. I think BYU was too and might well have preferred independence to inclusion in a power conference.

The recent moves have likely changed that though. BYU already had schedule issues. With both the ACC and SEC requiring a power 5 conference opponent and not counting BYU though, it's quite likely that BYU will rarely be able to find a team from either conference willing to give them a home and home. Meanwhile the Big Ten, PAC-12, and Big 12 are all at 9 conference games which limits their ability to give home and home. While I think BYU can continue to operate as an independent and will get some decent and home and homes (even from the ACC/SEC, if a team wants two out of conference home and home BYU is not a terrible choice), the scheduling isn't getting easier, especially late in the season where getting marquee opponents at home (vs. on the road) has already proven a challenge. Beyond, not being considered power 5 level by other conferences is going to hurt them in perception going forward. All that taken in, I think they'd be more willing to listen to the Big 12 and make compromises they might not have before (not talking Sunday play here, that's a no go).

The bigger question though is the Big 12. They are the only conference that I think would be willing to consider BYU and I suspect probably would have grabbed them a few years ago if negotiations had turned out better. The conference members though generally like the round robin scheduling in football and double round robin in basketball. I'm not sure they'll go for expansion, especially since it would mean the conference would stretch from the Rockies to the Appalachians.

Edit: The most likely scenario though is that is all talk from BYU alums nervous after the SEC/ACC announcement. While that's a definite negative for BYU, I'm not sure it actually changes things all that much.

This is all empty rhetoric to calm down a frantic BYU fanbase

Reading through the twitter account, I don't see anything to suggest he knows of any talks going on. He thinking about it like the rest of us, but that's all I see there.

(05-15-2014 04:35 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Reading through the twitter account, I don't see anything to suggest he knows of any talks going on.

That was explicit in the quote tweet:

Quote: Greg Wrubell @gregwrubell ·
[BYU AD] Tom Holmoe has suggested that another realignment shift could be coming; I presume he is working hard to find a way for BYU to be involved.

(05-15-2014 04:35 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Reading through the twitter account, I don't see anything to suggest he knows of any talks going on. He thinking about it like the rest of us, but that's all I see there.

If someone of Wruvell's stature is thinking of it, you better believe the entire BYU athletic department and school are, too. BYU is so insular that Wrubell is about as close to channeling the views of BYU as anyone. I've listened to dozens of his games, podcasts, interviews, etc.

Now all this might just be a coordinated effort to get BYU fans off the ledge, but that really isn't the BYU way.

I will try to find it, but McMurphy did a radio interview 2 years ago, in which he discussed BYU and the Big 12 (and old Big East) at great length. It seems so timely because I was struck by the tone that McMurphy used to describe the BYU/Big 12 relationship. It was very professional.

(05-15-2014 04:46 PM)BE4evah Wrote:  If someone of Wruvell's stature is thinking of it, you better believe the entire BYU athletic department and school are, too. BYU is so insular that Wrubell is about as close to channeling the views of BYU as anyone.

Wrubell's views may be in line with those of the BYU administration but they are seldom in line with reality.

BYU and Cincy aren't a bad pair of gets for the B12 getting back to 12.

BYU adds program cache and their LDS fan base. Cincy provides entry into the fertile Ohio recruiting grounds, a travel partner for WVU and a desperately needed large population base outside Texas.

I think that the B12 North schools would be OK with that new North division since you have a program like BYU that will come in and sell out their stadiums for them and WVU gets a buddy. They would get access to Ohio recruiting to balance out slightly less Texas exposure (there is still at least 1-2 trips per year). Especially if the B12 agreed to permanent rivalries (TCU vs BYU is an instant rematch classic that should be played every year that the B12 needs more of) to ensure all the North teams get South team exposure.

So we would have:

B12 North

BYU
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
West Virginia

B12 South

Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Christian
Texas Tech

If they wanted to expand further, Colorado State to the North would help BYU with travel and help the B12 get back into the Denver market and New Mexico would to the south strengthen B12 basketball, revive the Texas Tech/UNM rivalry and add a new state to the footprint.

I think the Big 12 is happy with the status quo and Holmoe is whistling in the dark. BYU and its fans are going to have to come to grips with the reality that they're on the wrong side of the have/have-not divide and they're not in a position to do much about it. It may not be fair but the realignment game isn't played on a level playing field.

Because if it WAS fair, Hawaii would be in the PAC right? Not sure what you mean by "level playing field" conferences take who they want because they think the candidate will be the best choice for their conference, not who the candidates think is best

(05-15-2014 04:40 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 04:35 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Reading through the twitter account, I don't see anything to suggest he knows of any talks going on.

That was explicit in the quote tweet:

Quote: Greg Wrubell @gregwrubell ·
[BYU AD] Tom Holmoe has suggested that another realignment shift could be coming; I presume he is working hard to find a way for BYU to be involved.

True and reading down a bit further, I see a bit more, but he also followed that up that tweet with this one:

"Holmoe in Feb:"I think it has quieted down, (but) I don't think it's done, for sure...I think in the next little while, things will change.""

The quotes about Holmoe sound to me like thinking from a few months ago. Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but it doesn't sound like anything new or beyond general thoughts on realignment. That said, this quote a bit further down was the one I thought was most interesting:

"BYU could pick up and move tomorrow in a football-only proposition, which I think is BYU's only entrée to a P5 situation."

It's actually a bit easier for me to see the Big 12 inviting BYU football only than for all sports. I'm not as certain it would be that simple now (2 years ago I think it would have been), but it's still plausible.

Actually, I think BYU and UCONN would be ideal for Football only. This would be perfect for UCONN could join the Big East in all sports and the Big East would jump all over them. Do I think it will happen, not any time soon but if I was UCONN, I would be on the phone with BYU and the B12 proposing football only and calling the Big East for Basketball and Olympic sports.

(05-15-2014 05:21 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  BYU and Cincy aren't a bad pair of gets for the B12 getting back to 12.

BYU adds program cache and their LDS fan base. Cincy provides entry into the fertile Ohio recruiting grounds, a travel partner for WVU and a desperately needed large population base outside Texas.

I think that the B12 North schools would be OK with that new North division since you have a program like BYU that will come in and sell out their stadiums for them and WVU gets a buddy. They would get access to Ohio recruiting to balance out slightly less Texas exposure (there is still at least 1-2 trips per year). Especially if the B12 agreed to permanent rivalries (TCU vs BYU is an instant rematch classic that should be played every year that the B12 needs more of) to ensure all the North teams get South team exposure.

So we would have:

B12 North

BYU
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
West Virginia

B12 South

Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Christian
Texas Tech

If they wanted to expand further, Colorado State to the North would help BYU with travel and help the B12 get back into the Denver market and New Mexico would to the south strengthen B12 basketball, revive the Texas Tech/UNM rivalry and add a new state to the footprint.

I don't think they'd divide like this again. I think the lesson that will be remembered is the old set-up where the south's natural advantages were stronger and the non-Texas schools aren't going to want to be a division with no Texas schools, no Oklahoma, and one that's not even geographically compact. Assuming we still need to stick with divisions (and the Big 12 would be a natural one to jettison them and just use a few fixed games if new rules get passed), then I'd guess something more like this

Division A-----Division B
Texas --------Oklahoma
Texas Tech---Baylor
Iowa State----Oklahoma State
Kansas--------Kansas State
Cincinnati-----TCU
West Virginia---BYU

The 2 divisions would be far from perfect, but would divide the Texas schools (for recruiting purposes), divide Texas-Oklahoma (one super big name in each division), and probably guarantee that both divisions receive a lot of attention. That said, no divisions would still be preferable.

(05-15-2014 05:44 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Actually, I think BYU and UCONN would be ideal for Football only. This would be perfect for UCONN could join the Big East in all sports and the Big East would jump all over them. Do I think it will happen, not any time soon but if I was UCONN, I would be on the phone with BYU and the B12 proposing football only and calling the Big East for Basketball and Olympic sports.

The problem I think with that (even if the Big 12 did/does want to expand) would be that I'm not sure UConn football offers a lot to them. With a combination of other schools it probably would, but by itself as a lone outpost, I just don't think the conference would value it over say Cincinnati (which provides a closer opponent to West Virginia and opens up Ohio recruiting).

(05-15-2014 05:31 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Because if it WAS fair, Hawaii would be in the PAC right? Not sure what you mean by "level playing field" conferences take who they want because they think the candidate will be the best choice for their conference, not who the candidates think is best

What I mean by a level playing field is that objective criteria consistently applied would determine who's in and who's out. That's not to say Hawaii should be in the PAC, but rather that both Hawaii and Washington State should be on the same side of the dividing line.

(05-15-2014 05:49 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 05:44 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Actually, I think BYU and UCONN would be ideal for Football only. This would be perfect for UCONN could join the Big East in all sports and the Big East would jump all over them. Do I think it will happen, not any time soon but if I was UCONN, I would be on the phone with BYU and the B12 proposing football only and calling the Big East for Basketball and Olympic sports.

The problem I think with that (even if the Big 12 did/does want to expand) would be that I'm not sure UConn football offers a lot to them. With a combination of other schools it probably would, but by itself as a lone outpost, I just don't think the conference would value it over say Cincinnati (which provides a closer opponent to West Virginia and opens up Ohio recruiting).

Good point, do you think Cinci would look at the B12 Football/Big East all other sports? Seems like travel wise this would work better or do they prefer to be in one conference only. Cincy basketball would be a good get for the Big East as well.

(05-15-2014 05:53 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 05:31 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Because if it WAS fair, Hawaii would be in the PAC right? Not sure what you mean by "level playing field" conferences take who they want because they think the candidate will be the best choice for their conference, not who the candidates think is best

What I mean by a level playing field is that objective criteria consistently applied would determine who's in and who's out. That's not to say Hawaii should be in the PAC, but rather that both Hawaii and Washington State should be on the same side of the dividing line.

See I absolutely disagree with this "The bottom members should be kicked out so their spots can be given to us" mentality.

A conference is always going to have a couple bottom members and its typically going to be the smaller, poorer schools over time no matter who it is. If there was a conference of Michigan, Bama, Ohio State, Florida, Notre Dame, Southern Cal, Oklahoma, LSU etc, there would eventually emerge a school or two who never won any conference games and would be the "loser". But more importantly though is CHOICE. the other schools like WSU and like associating with them. Maybe you don't find it fair that they WANT to associate with Wazzou and not SDSU or Fresno but thats their choice. Conferences ties are important to these leagues and they aren't going to kick out a 100 year member to invite Boise State on the spur of the moment.