Yeah, I do believe I was the first to push this. It's called a Gatekeeper conference and the point of it is to control entry into the Power conference level.

Attendance figures will be one of the major determining factors so the Gatekeeper conference will only be able to invite schools that don't drag them below the acceptable average attendance level that is required.

That gives the P5 legal shielding because they are no longer the ones denying everyone else. That Gatekeeper conference is now the one doing the official denying.

(05-15-2014 07:55 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Yeah, I do believe I was the first to push this. It's called a Gatekeeper conference and the point of it is to control entry into the Power conference level.

Attendance figures will be one of the major determining factors so the Gatekeeper conference will only be able to invite schools that don't drag them below the acceptable average attendance level that is required.

That gives the P5 legal shielding because they are no longer the ones denying everyone else. That Gatekeeper conference is now the one doing the official denying.

Yes you might be on to something. This league would generate far less TV/Bowl revenue but will still be considered in the club. You can't really look at BYU/Boise/Fresno/Cincy/UConn/ECU, etc...and say you don't deserve to have a chance to make the Playoffs and stay in the national conversation.

Cinderella's sell.

Connecticut
Temple
Buffalo
Ohio
Cincinnati
Memphis
East Carolina
SMU
Houston
Central Florida

Mostly the AAC with Tulsa/Tulane/Navy/USF all dropped. Buffalo and Ohio added in for a more Northeast presence and good basketball.

Twenty teams. Four regional divisions and five teams per division. Seven game schedule means four games in division and one against each other division. That saves five games for them to play against the other P5 teams.

(05-16-2014 12:24 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Twenty teams. Four regional divisions and five teams per division. Seven game schedule means four games in division and one against each other division. That saves five games for them to play against the other P5 teams.

Unless game 12 is reserved for a division on division round scheduled based on standing, so that the 1v1 games also stand as the first round of a playoff for the conference championship ...
... it would seem to need a special NCAA rule allowing a two round conference championship.

Since if you have three 7-0 teams in conference play, it would seem unsatisfactory to rely on tie breakers to decide which two go to the CCG.

(There are a number of downsides to that approach, which is why it has only ever been advanced as a hypothetical system, but it would give effectively eight conference games, and would give the last round winners of the 1v1 and 2v2 games a boost toward getting a bowl game).

Of course I believe conference tournaments will happen. I have said it so many times that I don't even say it anymore. Safe to assume I am talking about hypotheticals such as this with conference tournaments in mind.

(05-15-2014 11:51 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 11:30 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 11:29 AM)john01992 Wrote:  air force is not joining without CSU, CSU is not joining without wyoming. and none of those 3 schools would be thrilled with leaving new mexico behind. BYU would rather die as an independent than join a conference that is considered inferior to the current conference utah is in.

Don't think so...you ever play musical chairs?

you seriously underestimate the bonds between some of these western programs. AF-CSU & AF-Wyoming have played every year that AF football has been in existence. AF has played those two schools more often than army and navy.

If its so important, they can play the games as OOC games. Texas and Texas A&M don't play anymore. College football changes all time. You might be right, it's possible those teams might simply choose to be left behind in a gutted MW---that would be an option as well.

(05-15-2014 03:33 PM)goofus Wrote:  First, You are thinking way too big. The bigger you make your alternative conference, the more diluted it is.

2nd, give up on the service academies. They may have national appeal but are not looked at as P5 worthy.

3rd, there are only about 4 teams in the AAC that are worth discussing as P5 worthy. Throw in 3 teams from MWC and BYU and you can make a decent 8-team national conference that might be considered "close enough" to be included in the P5 discussion.

P6 conference
BYU, UCF, USF, Cincy, UConn, Boise, SDSU, TBD

I think just the opposite. I think you have to go big with the 6th conference becuase you will use it as a catch all. It needs to include the biggest names in the G5, it needs to represent the FBS in states with no P5 entry, and it needs to pick up some the the big city schools so those markets have a dog in the hunt.

So, youll want to include Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV (or Nevada), and Boise. Then you will want the bigger well known names (BYU, Cinci, UConn, USF, ECU, USF, UCF, Houston, AF, Navy, Army, Fresno, SMU). Now you fill in a couple of large markets that are missed---Temple, SDSU, maybe a few more. it's going to end up at around 16-20 schools. It's going to be a catch all--a gateway conference. It will fill in the holes in the P5 pattern and gurantee that the top division of FBS football is represented most everywhere.

(05-15-2014 03:38 PM)mlb Wrote:  Hard to argue against Houston and their recent success for starters, goofus.

Probably would add ECU in as well, and find 1 more for a 10 team conference that is fairly strong.

Maybe if Houston actually would have gone undefeated and won a BCS bowl, that would have helped. That is what set apart TCU and Boise and got them on the national radar. Even Hawaii, NIU, Cincy, and UConn at least got to a BCS game, but they got blown out so nobody remembers them as anything special. UCF impressed a lot people by actually winning its BCS game. Houston ' s big success is starting out undefeated 3 years ago and losing in CCG. Sounds like NIU last year and nobody is arguing for NIU.

Also Houston 's football attendance is just not good enough to be P5. Most casual fans only remember Houston for Phi Slamma Jamma basketball in the 80's, or maybe the school where Kevin Summlin used to coach, if they remember anything about Houston at all.

ECU? I can't think of a more delusional fanbase. Outside of decent attendance at football games, there is nothing about ECU that suggests it is P5 worthy. It was one the last teams invited to the AAC, for crying out loud. Just be happy you got your AAC invite.

(05-16-2014 12:21 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Connecticut
Temple
Buffalo
Ohio
Cincinnati
Memphis
East Carolina
SMU
Houston
Central Florida

Wow ~ yet another OhioU to the American suggestion. Nobody saw that coming. And setting them in front of Boise State or, indeed, any MWC school ... as if nobody would look at that list for a P6 conference and say, "wait a minute, if you are reaching as far down as OhioU, aren't there some worthy schools in the Western Half of the nation?"

(05-16-2014 02:48 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 03:33 PM)goofus Wrote:  First, You are thinking way too big. The bigger you make your alternative conference, the more diluted it is.

2nd, give up on the service academies. They may have national appeal but are not looked at as P5 worthy.

3rd, there are only about 4 teams in the AAC that are worth discussing as P5 worthy. Throw in 3 teams from MWC and BYU and you can make a decent 8-team national conference that might be considered "close enough" to be included in the P5 discussion.

P6 conference
BYU, UCF, USF, Cincy, UConn, Boise, SDSU, TBD

I think just the opposite. I think you have to go big with the 6th conference becuase you will use it as a catch all. It needs to include the biggest names in the G5, it needs to represent the FBS in states with no P5 entry, and it needs to pick up some the the big city schools so those markets have a dog in the hunt.

So, youll want to include Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV (or Nevada), and Boise. Then you will want the bigger well known names (BYU, Cinci, UConn, USF, ECU, USF, UCF, Houston, AF, Navy, Army, Fresno, SMU). Now you fill in a couple of large markets that are missed---Temple, SDSU, maybe a few more. it's going to end up at around 16-20 schools. It's going to be a catch all--a gateway conference. It will fill in the holes in the P5 pattern and gurantee that the top division of FBS football is represented most everywhere.

Well, if your goal was to make a catch - all conference, then yes you should go big, buts thats all it would ever be, a G5 catch - all conference, and everyone would still be considered G5. But if your goal is to be considered a P6 conference, it's got to stay small.

(05-16-2014 08:01 AM)goofus Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 03:38 PM)mlb Wrote:  Hard to argue against Houston and their recent success for starters, goofus.

Probably would add ECU in as well, and find 1 more for a 10 team conference that is fairly strong.

Maybe if Houston actually would have gone undefeated and won a BCS bowl, that would have helped. That is what set apart TCU and Boise and got them on the national radar. Even Hawaii, NIU, Cincy, and UConn at least got to a BCS game, but they got blown out so nobody remembers them as anything special. UCF impressed a lot people by actually winning its BCS game. Houston ' s big success is starting out undefeated 3 years ago and losing in CCG. Sounds like NIU last year and nobody is arguing for NIU.

Also Houston 's football attendance is just not good enough to be P5. Most casual fans only remember Houston for Phi Slamma Jamma basketball in the 80's, or maybe the school where Kevin Summlin used to coach, if they remember anything about Houston at all.

ECU? I can't think of a more delusional fanbase. Outside of decent attendance at football games, there is nothing about ECU that suggests it is P5 worthy. It was one the last teams invited to the AAC, for crying out loud. Just be happy you got your AAC invite.

Normally I'm not inclined to jump in on behalf of ECU but decent attendance? Their attendance in normally in the upper 40k area, hovering around the 50k mark. They regularly play a strong ooc schedule and get home and homes with ACC schools, and beat them enough to make P5 schools take them seriously. ECU belongs if this fantasy conference were to happen.

I don't think the P5 is inclined to have it become a P6. They are getting their way as it is, why change it?

I am so glad that you(op) are around to tell us where we belong ,for a moment I forgot we were unworthy .

(05-16-2014 08:24 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  I don't think the P5 is inclined to have it become a P6. They are getting their way as it is, why change it?

The P5 already gets their Gateway conference from the pile of five Go5 conference ... which is more effective anti-trust legal protection than a single gateway conference would be, and for the cost of a single P6 conference. Plus a cushion of bowl games for conference mates having a mediocre year that can be backfilled out of the Go5 when the conference can't fill the tie, plus a supply of buy games and unbalanced 2-1 and 3-1 scheduling games that do not fall under the single FCS game rule, to allow big and medium P5 stadium schools to have seven home games a season.

And the networks have already spoken as to how eager they are to pay for a Gateway conference when the Big East of Reno experiment fell apart due to disappointing TV offers ... if there was a genuine media thirst for a tweener conference, the Big East of Reno experiment would have been attracting sufficient interest to bring a stronger replacement than Tulane on board when Rutgers was raided.

Who knows whether the next media landscape will change the parameters, but we are still under the headline network game of the week and cable carriage fees landscape, and the shape of the next media landscape is not yet clear.

(05-16-2014 08:27 AM)FUB Wrote:  I am so glad that you(op) are around to tell us where we belong ,for a moment I forgot we were unworthy .

FUB my fault...I built the list off the top of my head. I forgot ECU and Memphis. Memphis actually should easily be in the Top 6 of anyone's list of G5 schools that should be in the P6. I've actually a huge fan of Memphis and had a brain fart on both Memphis and ECU. I also added UTEP to my wild card list.

(05-16-2014 08:35 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(05-16-2014 08:24 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  I don't think the P5 is inclined to have it become a P6. They are getting their way as it is, why change it?

The P5 already gets their Gateway conference from the pile of five Go5 conference ... which is more effective anti-trust legal protection than a single gateway conference would be, and for the cost of a single P6 conference. Plus a cushion of bowl games for conference mates having a mediocre year that can be backfilled out of the Go5 when the conference can't fill the tie, plus a supply of buy games and unbalanced 2-1 and 3-1 scheduling games that do not fall under the single FCS game rule, to allow big and medium P5 stadium schools to have seven home games a season.

And the networks have already spoken as to how eager they are to pay for a Gateway conference when the Big East of Reno experiment fell apart due to disappointing TV offers ... if there was a genuine media thirst for a tweener conference, the Big East of Reno experiment would have been attracting sufficient interest to bring a stronger replacement than Tulane on board when Rutgers was raided.

Who knows whether the next media landscape will change the parameters, but we are still under the headline network game of the week and cable carriage fees landscape, and the shape of the next media landscape is not yet clear.

The networks clearly can't stand the regional conferences. One gets 20K a year per team. One gets 100K per year per team. The other 3 get a million or 2 a team. Where I see a nationwide gateway conference quickly coming together is if the P5 split from the rest of FBS. Otherwise, it will be a slow road to get there. We could see a culling of the FBS herd as the cost of keeping up with he P5's new autonomous benefits begins to rise.

A nationwide conference of the best G5's along with a few schools who fill in the holes in the nationwide P5 coverage will help the P5 avoid anti-trust issues in a split senatio while keeping the networks happy with total nationwide FBS covererage. A 16-20 team G5 conference can have one AQ slot and make as much as 5-10 million per team. It wouldnt be a P5---but it would allow its members to remain competetive and have enough playoff access that life in the conference would be acceptable to fans of those G5 schools fortunate enough to make it. The rest of the G5 would slowly drop down due to the excessive costs of keeping up.

All these little regional G5's are dead. They just don't know it. At the G5 level, the regional model has proven in contract negotiation after contract negotiation over about two decades that it will never pay enough to keep up. The national model might be a failure as well at generating media income---but we don't know that yet. We DO know the regional model is a complete and utter failure at generating significant media income at the G5 level. That case has been decided and upheld on numerous appeals. The only chance is a national G5 best of the rest conference---and even that is no sure thing.

Shaking Head Yes...

If you could either make this a football only conference, or otherwise work out the Olympic sports problems, I think you might be able to put together a conference that could yield $5 million a year per member. But that wouldn't be a large conference, because there would be too many mouths to feed.

I could see the following 9 team league, playing a balanced 4H-4A full round robin schedule:

Cincy
South Florida
Central Florida
Houston
Memphis
Fresno
San Diego
Boise
BYU

That isn't to say that these are the nine best football programs, or the nine best markets. But I think they give a good balance to competitive issues as well as media issues. Some "worthy" schools get left out, to be sure. I don't see how that can be avoided.

This lineup gives the league a presence in all three of the most fertile recruiting areas - Florida, Texas and California. The only really small market team is Boise, and they have managed to cultivate a national brand of sorts to offset this. Most important, $5MM per school with only 9 teams is just $45MM a year total for the conference. That might be little enough to persuade somebody like Fox to take a chance with a five year deal to test whether this model could work.

And, while this lineup is IMO weaker competitively than the P5, it's not by so much that a one or even two loss champion would be viewed as unworthy of an access bowl slot. It might not be viewed as P6 from the get go, but eventually the P5 could allow them to be counted as a power OOC opponent.

(05-16-2014 10:39 AM)ken d Wrote:  If you could either make this a football only conference, or otherwise work out the Olympic sports problems, I think you might be able to put together a conference that could yield $5 million a year per member. But that wouldn't be a large conference, because there would be too many mouths to feed.

I could see the following 9 team league, playing a balanced 4H-4A full round robin schedule:

Cincy
South Florida
Central Florida
Houston
Memphis
Fresno
San Diego
Boise
BYU

That isn't to say that these are the nine best football programs, or the nine best markets. But I think they give a good balance to competitive issues as well as media issues. Some "worthy" schools get left out, to be sure. I don't see how that can be avoided.

This lineup gives the league a presence in all three of the most fertile recruiting areas - Florida, Texas and California. The only really small market team is Boise, and they have managed to cultivate a national brand of sorts to offset this. Most important, $5MM per school with only 9 teams is just $45MM a year total for the conference. That might be little enough to persuade somebody like Fox to take a chance with a five year deal to test whether this model could work.

And, while this lineup is IMO weaker competitively than the P5, it's not by so much that a one or even two loss champion would be viewed as unworthy of an access bowl slot. It might not be viewed as P6 from the get go, but eventually the P5 could allow them to be counted as a power OOC opponent.