(05-15-2014 03:41 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  I don't think the whining is really necessary either. But the most hypocritical and off-base person I've seen post about this topic is you, John. I truly don't understand what you are doing.

He's just wanting to remove competition from his school due to their bad showings in recent years.

Luckily most of the other Syracuse guys around here are pretty good guys. John just wants to act high and mighty and attack those that strive to make it to the club.

(05-15-2014 03:44 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 03:41 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  I don't think the whining is really necessary either. But the most hypocritical and off-base person I've seen post about this topic is you, John. I truly don't understand what you are doing.

He's just wanting to remove competition from his school due to their bad showings in recent years.

Luckily most of the other Syracuse guys around here are pretty good guys. John just wants to act high and mighty and attack those that strive to make it to the club.

Apparently except for Rice and Colorado State. Must be Teams #6 and #7 that he roots for.

(05-15-2014 03:44 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 03:41 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  I don't think the whining is really necessary either. But the most hypocritical and off-base person I've seen post about this topic is you, John. I truly don't understand what you are doing.

He's just wanting to remove competition from his school due to their bad showings in recent years.

Luckily most of the other Syracuse guys around here are pretty good guys. John just wants to act high and mighty and attack those that strive to make it to the club.

Stop with the attacking people based on the school they root for. That makes no sense. It happens all the time, and its petty and immature. The whole: I don't like what you said, so I'm just going to attack who you root for. All that does is derail threads that get closed. I think John posts nonsense, but that has nothing to do with Syracuse at all. I've done it before, and almost always realized how stupid it was.

I understand the bitterness. It sucks to not be where we want to at this point, but comparing and attacking other schools isn't worthwhile, fair, nor accurate.

(05-15-2014 02:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 09:52 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 09:25 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I think it is more so is your school a state flagship or have the name of the state in your school title.

That makes sense say schools like.....

Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming, New Mexico, etc....

There are very few people in those states and those are mostly relatively small schools. The only FBS flagships who are not in the P5 are schools that weren't FBS 15 years ago at the start of the BCS era (UConn, UMass, Buffalo) or schools in small states (Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming, New Mexico, Utah St., Hawaii) or schools in states that grew too late (Colorado St.).

Nearly all the P5 is flagships or privates. The only schools I can think of that aren't are Texas Tech, Pittsburg and FSU (although the latter 2 are the #2 school in their states).

Oh I know just pointing out the fallacy in that argument.

Just because your University of "Insert State Name Here" does not ensure P5 membership.

(05-15-2014 04:51 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 02:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 09:52 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 09:25 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I think it is more so is your school a state flagship or have the name of the state in your school title.

That makes sense say schools like.....

Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming, New Mexico, etc....

There are very few people in those states and those are mostly relatively small schools. The only FBS flagships who are not in the P5 are schools that weren't FBS 15 years ago at the start of the BCS era (UConn, UMass, Buffalo) or schools in small states (Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming, New Mexico, Utah St., Hawaii) or schools in states that grew too late (Colorado St.).

Nearly all the P5 is flagships or privates. The only schools I can think of that aren't are Texas Tech, Pittsburg and FSU (although the latter 2 are the #2 school in their states).

Oh I know just pointing out the fallacy in that argument.

Just because your University of "Insert State Name Here" does not ensure P5 membership.

But not being pretty much insures you aren't unless you are a private school. I forgot the newest addition to the P5-Louisville, also not a flagship, but also the #2 school in their state like Pitt and FSU.

Every state whose schools have historically been I-A but Colorado with a population of 2.8 million or higher has both its flagships in (if it has 2). Of the smaller states, Nebraska 1.8 and West Virginia 1.9 have their sole flagship in and Utah 2.7 has their primary one in.

NV 2.7, NM 2.1, ID 1.6, HI 1.4 and WY .6 don't have one in. And the newcomers, Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York, don't have their flagships in.

(05-15-2014 05:04 PM)bullet Wrote:  Every state whose schools have historically been I-A but Colorado with a population of 2.8 million or higher has both its flagships in (if it has 2). Of the smaller states, Nebraska 1.8 and West Virginia 1.9 have their sole flagship in and Utah 2.7 has their primary one in.

NV 2.7, NM 2.1, ID 1.6, HI 1.4 and WY .6 don't have one in. And the newcomers, Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York, don't have their flagships in.

I still think it's absolute madness that Ohio with a population of 11.5 million only has 1 P5 school, but then again, I'm pretty biased.

(05-15-2014 03:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 03:44 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 03:41 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  I don't think the whining is really necessary either. But the most hypocritical and off-base person I've seen post about this topic is you, John. I truly don't understand what you are doing.

He's just wanting to remove competition from his school due to their bad showings in recent years.

Luckily most of the other Syracuse guys around here are pretty good guys. John just wants to act high and mighty and attack those that strive to make it to the club.

Apparently except for Rice and Colorado State. Must be Teams #6 and #7 that he roots for.

LOL now that's funny.

For the record, most UC fans understand why we're not in the P5 today. We didn't get invited to the club 80 years ago and we've always hovered right on the edge of respectability. To get invited you have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you belong, and you have to do it at the right time. Unfortunately for us 1961, 1962, 1992, and 2009 were not reallignment years, and they were all followed up by sub-par seasons.

But it's still frustrating to know you're currently better than half the P5 and still be left on the outside. We're a huge school in a big state, with 42,000 students and 270,000 living alumni including a President of the United States and the best left-handed pitcher every to throw a baseball. We've invested over $200 million in athletic facilities in the last decade. We have a $1 billion dollar endowment and perform more academic research than 2/3 of P5 schools. We have 7 pro Hall-of-Famers, five 10-win seasons in the last 7 years, more top-25 finishes in the last 7 years than half the P5 has had in the last 25, and 2 national titles in basketball.

And it's not like we're a new kid on the block. Next year will be our 125th year of big-time college football. We won bowl games in 1897, 1947, and 1949, had a Hall-of-Fame football coach for 6 years in the 50s, and went to 5 straight Final Fours from 59-63.

You can see why we're frustrated because we KNOW we belong by any objective measure but we're still left out. Sometimes we forget that it's not always about who is most deserving and it's often about who can go to Austin and get the AD liquored up.

one correlation between uconn & cincy has to do with their networking. neither of the two schools have any real allies in the p5 while both have some pretty clear cut enemies in the p5 who are hellbent on keeping both down for their own benefit.

(05-15-2014 10:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  one correlation between uconn & cincy has to do with their networking. neither of the two schools have any real allies in the p5 while both have some pretty clear cut enemies in the p5 who are hellbent on keeping both down for their own benefit.

This is a pretty good point. In the better late than never category, Tom Jurich has always been friendly with UC and would probably be on our side if things ever picked up. I think UC made some friends during their time in the big east. Don't know any presidents or ADs that have bad things to say about us.

(05-15-2014 11:03 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 10:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  one correlation between uconn & cincy has to do with their networking. neither of the two schools have any real allies in the p5 while both have some pretty clear cut enemies in the p5 who are hellbent on keeping both down for their own benefit.

This is a pretty good point. In the better late than never category, Tom Jurich has always been friendly with UC and would probably be on our side if things ever picked up. I think UC made some friends during their time in the big east. Don't know any presidents or ADs that have bad things to say about us.

We like yeah....
Cincy should be in the ACC Imo.

(05-15-2014 09:04 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  I still think it's absolute madness that Ohio with a population of 11.5 million only has 1 P5 school, but then again, I'm pretty biased.

That really goes back to how Ohio dealt with the post WWII boom in University education, with the Board of Regents Universities on enrolment targets and OSU as an open enrollment, flunk them out in Freshmen English, University. So by the time that OSU is brought into the Board of Regents system and starts selective enrollments, it has enrollment that is multiples of the original Board of Regents schools.

UC had a distinctive institutional history in that it early on (1858) became a City of Cincinnati sponsored University, back when Cincinnati was the largest Ohio city, and was recognized as a municipally-sponsored, state-affiliated University in 1968, by which time its size as in between the typical old Board of Regents Universities and OSU was already pretty well entrenched.

So you've got one ~100,000 enrollment University drawing students from all over Ohio, one ~40,000 enrollment University drawing students heavily from southwestern Ohio, and a set of six 18,000~28,000 Universities, all but one of which have made their way into the MAC, alongside a set of Universities with enrollments of 19,000~29,000. And one ~15,000 enrollment University in the FCS.

(05-15-2014 10:03 AM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 09:08 AM)MJG Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 08:31 AM)mlb Wrote:  

Quote:Bill Connelly ‏@SBN_BillC · 7m

Your position in cfb's hierarchy has more to do with what conference you selected 80 years ago than how you've played anytime recently.

This just goes to show how much the system is rigged... schools that have no business being a "power school" get to maintain that status because they were in a power conference for 80 years. Meanwhile, schools like Cincinnati, UCF, and Boise State are relegated to Go5 conferences because they didn't have the political pull to be placed in one of the old guard conferences when they were founded. It is a joke, and it will be what brings down college athletics as a whole.

Why would you place your school and Boise in the same category. Cinncy is a P5 level school Boise State was a junior college twenty five years ago. They are one of the five worst academically in FBS. The whole package is what is necessary.

The Vandulls of all people should not be bringing up the old tired "junior college" jokes. Last I checked, Idaho just lost their flagship status not too long ago, Idaho is currently under academic sanctions from the NCAA, and Idaho's incoming freshman class has a lower average GPA than Boise State's. Not good for a university that has had everything handed to them whereas BSU has had to scratch and claw to get where they are.

Considering that "flagship" isn't an official status in the first place, we didn't lose anything. UI is the the flagship institution of the state by the very definition of the word. We were the first, we have the research, we have the money. I don't give a f@ck how good or bad football team's GPA is; I received a better education at U of I than I would have at BSU (or ISU for that matter). U of I is ranked among schools like WSU, Kansas State, and Nevada. BSU is ranked with Southeastern Louisiana University and Western State Colorado University.

Fun fact: U of I and BSU spend nearly the same amount of money on "instruction". That means that BSU is spending nearly half as much money on instruction per student as is U of I does.


Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

(05-15-2014 10:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  one correlation between uconn & cincy has to do with their networking. neither of the two schools have any real allies in the p5 while both have some pretty clear cut enemies in the p5 who are hellbent on keeping both down for their own benefit.

You have absolutely know idea who UConn or Cinci is or is not "real allies" with.

(05-15-2014 12:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  The simple reason for why some "unworthy" schools are in the P5 while other "more deserving" schools are not is simple. The biggest schools WANT to rub elbows with the weaker schools in the P5. They DO NOT want to rub elbows with other, new upstart schools.

I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. Universities are institutions that heavily utilize relationships and networking. So while people are wondering what OSU gets from rubbing elbows with Northwestern and Minnesota, I think it's clear that they evidently get quite a lot from it. If they didn't, then these "undeserving" schools would be booted from power conferences. We have talked about college athletics as being nothing more than marketing for universities. Evidently, OSU feels that it is more marketable when they have Minnesota and Illinois in the conference instead of Cincinnati or Marshall.

Another thing. Many of these schools have had relationships that spanned many decades. A number of people on here are asking that these schools throw out these long standing relationships in favor of inviting new schools that don't mean a rip to the established ones. I'm sorry to spell it out, but a number of the G5 schools have crappy academics. The established universities don't want to associate with schools that don't have academic cred. It's not all about just on field performance. We've had these threads started all the time, and it's always the same. People stubbornly refuse to look at the reality and think of college athletics as nothing more than D-Leagues to the pros. While in reality that is what they are, at this juncture, the university presidents continue to keep the charade going - probably because it's an effective marketing tool for the universities.

What else can you say about it?

I don't think it's that people don't know why it's like that as much as nobody likes the answer.

It's sports. People want to think winning and losing matters because that makes the games more fun. Unfortunately, in college football, politics and relationships are what matter... as your post points out.

(05-16-2014 06:50 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(05-15-2014 10:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  one correlation between uconn & cincy has to do with their networking. neither of the two schools have any real allies in the p5 while both have some pretty clear cut enemies in the p5 who are hellbent on keeping both down for their own benefit.

You have absolutely know idea who UConn or Cinci is or is not "real allies" with.

you mean that one school in central new york who blocked uconn from the ACC not once but twice in favor of two other BE schools? or what about that school in columbus whose former president is on the record saying that he would block cincy from certain state funding just for the hell of it?

in fact can you name one school in the p5 that is willing to stick its neck out and fight for uconns inclusion in their conference? or what about cincy? sure they might have ville but using them only proves my point as ville was not in the p5 at the time cincy was getting snubbed.

(05-16-2014 07:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  in fact can you name one school in the p5 that is willing to stick its neck out and fight for uconns inclusion in their conference? or what about cincy?

At present, WVU.

Quote: sure they might have ville but using them only proves my point as ville was not in the p5 at the time cincy was getting snubbed.

But WVU was an independent until it joined the Big East in 1991, and stayed in the Big East until it escape the collapse in its recent move to the Big12.

(05-16-2014 08:42 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(05-16-2014 07:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  in fact can you name one school in the p5 that is willing to stick its neck out and fight for uconns inclusion in their conference? or what about cincy?

At present, WVU.

Quote: sure they might have ville but using them only proves my point as ville was not in the p5 at the time cincy was getting snubbed.

But WVU was an independent until it joined the Big East in 1991, and stayed in the Big East until it escape the collapse in its recent move to the Big12.

i can understand wvu-vtech or wvu-pitt but wvu-uconn seems to have no historic ties between the schools nor any shared agenda. we are talking about a BB-first & a FB-first school with completely different alumni/demographic bases and completely different cultures. i honestly do not see any connection between the two. if anything these two schools are against each other with competing ACC aspirations.

cincy-wvu is probably the closest thing cincy has to a p5 ally. but i have never once seen wvu really go out on a limb and push for cincy specifically. in a couple of years.....who knows.

What if you're terrible in football but are still able to move from power conference to power conference? *cough*maryland*cough*