Freedom Hall is not a dump. It needs to be renovated and that will happen.

I have also sat in every area of Freedom Hall and had no trouble seeing or hearing.

There will be seats on the FC floor level.

The team, the coaches and the fans said in interviews and replied to surveys, they not only liked but loved playing and watching a game in FC.

And yes, a coach can and does excite the students and the fan base. When Bruce Pearl came to Tennessee, he took the students and the fan base by storm. Ticket sales and student involement sky rocketed. He attended all types of meetings and
traveled all over the state to drum up support. His actions translated into sellouts, renovation of the arena and the recruitment of better players and yearly trips to the NCAA.

Sonny Smith, Les Robinson and Eddie D. increased fan and student attendance. mubar started with a loaded NCAA team and a average attendance of 4600. The BUCS under him are now a 3-6th place team with an average attendance of 2500. The average attendance has decreased 20,000 the last two years. Attendance was actually better during the worst time for the economy and has dropped the most with a recovering economy. Approx. 20,000 lost attendance x approx 10 dollars a ticket = a lose of approx. $200,000. mubar IMO is responsible because of his attitude, remarks about the fans and his continued losses to inferior teams. mubar had 1 win and 5 losses against the top three teams in the asun this past season, hardly a record to excite anyone to attend games.

As far as five post season appearances in thirteen seasons, I don't agree. mubar's first appearance was because Eddy D. left him an intact NCAA team. mubar didn't recruit any of the starters or the first three off the bench. I also don't count appearances in the CIT, a lowly, last of four tournaments that you have to pay to play. I count NCAA and NIT, the rest are just widow dressing.

Why didn't the powers to be tear down the Ryman Theater, Fog Allen Field House, Butler's Field House, Rupp Arena, Duke Coliseum, Asheville Civic Center and all the other landmark arena's and stadium's. I guess renovating them was thought to be a much better deal than tearing them down.

Why would you tear down FC? It would cost 60 million or more to replace the building and you would have the same number of seats. A renovation would cost 2-4 million. A 56 million dollar savings, not a bad idea in my thinking unless someone knows somebody willing to shell out 60 million. If you do know someone or some corporation, please tell them now is the time to step up.

As a wrap up comment, I've heard all about the tremendous excitment and attendance at the SoCon tournament held in Asheville, N. C. and look forward to attending the tournament next March. I looked up the venue and couldn't believe it was an very old arena and had two levels. Didn't keep the BUC fans and students from going. Rather than tearing it down they renovated it and everyone I talk to can't wait to attend the tournament.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous to move (1) basketball to and (2) set-up football in high school facilities. I know . . . if it's good enough for Science Hill, then it's good enough for the future ETSU Jr. Hilltoppers.



Let's be excessively ridiculous about moving basketball off campus. Go ahead and move basketball way off campus . . . to a location that would GUARANTY 35,000 out-of-state Buc basketball "fans" at every single "home" game. North Slope, AK has 35,000 bored oil workers with really fat wallets and absolutely nothing to do. They would be thrilled to see the Bucs fly in 1 or 2 times per week with another team and be willing to pay big $$$ for tickets (charge NBA prices, then multiply by 35,000 + concessions, and ETSU earns millions per game). Acquire corporate sponsorship from Exxon to build Valdez Arena up there.

Ridiculous? Absolutely. Will it draw more than FH? Probably X12. Will ETSU make money? Hand over fist. Will the same amount of students go to games in North Slope as do now? Yeah, just about.

(This future ETSU Jr. Hilltopper fan is obviously just kidding here . . .)

(04-30-2014 11:25 PM)bucgal Wrote:  Freedom Hall is not a dump. It needs to be renovated and that will happen.
Yes, yes it is. See previous posts about lights falling out of the ceiling and nearly killing someone, cracks in the walls, poor sound system, worse lighting. Fixable things, but as it sits, it's a dump.

I have also sat in every area of Freedom Hall and had no trouble seeing or hearing.
Are you talking about Freedom Hall in Louisville?
There will be seats on the FC floor level.

Hopefully 2500/3000 floor level. The more you can get closer, the better. Right now in the current layout, that's terrible.


The team, the coaches and the fans said in interviews and replied to surveys, they not only liked but loved playing and watching a game in FC.
Just about anything is better than the dome in its' current layout and access to amenities.


And yes, a coach can and does excite the students and the fan base. When Bruce Pearl came to Tennessee, he took the students and the fan base by storm. Ticket sales and student involement sky rocketed. He attended all types of meetings and
traveled all over the state to drum up support. His actions translated into sellouts, renovation of the arena and the recruitment of better players and yearly trips to the NCAA.
So you're going to use an apples to oranges comparison with a school that has four times the fan base and has shown they'll support a winning product in basketball? You think the rah rah stuff generated the lasting support Pearl had? Winning did. Oh, and you should look at what was happening to attendance in his last couple of years. It was flatlined/declining. And his actions didn't lead to arena renovation, mega concert companies telling UTK that they can't play there anymore because the roof wasn't strong enough to hold the rigging was. Tim McGraw having to alter a show there was the last straw.

Sonny Smith, Les Robinson and Eddie D. increased fan and student attendance. mubar started with a loaded NCAA team and a average attendance of 4600. The BUCS under him are now a 3-6th place team with an average attendance of 2500. The average attendance has decreased 20,000 the last two years. Attendance was actually better during the worst time for the economy and has dropped the most with a recovering economy. Approx. 20,000 lost attendance x approx 10 dollars a ticket = a lose of approx. $200,000. mubar IMO is responsible because of his attitude, remarks about the fans and his continued losses to inferior teams. mubar had 1 win and 5 losses against the top three teams in the asun this past season, hardly a record to excite anyone to attend games.
Really? Because Eddie D. was averaging garbage until the very end of his tenure. Les and Alan didn't draw numbers until they had huge wins, and Sonny wasn't bringing 10,000 a night for anything. You've lost your mind. Stop looking back at 1 off moments in time. And yes, I agree Murry should go, he's an arsehole personality wise and doesn't appeal to anyone. The thing is even if he won, attendance would still suck. I would also argue that all the previous coaches had the advantage of not playing in the damn A-Sun against teams ETSU fans didn't care about.

As far as five post season appearances in thirteen seasons, I don't agree. mubar's first appearance was because Eddy D. left him an intact NCAA team. mubar didn't recruit any of the starters or the first three off the bench. I also don't count appearances in the CIT, a lowly, last of four tournaments that you have to pay to play. I count NCAA and NIT, the rest are just widow dressing.
Really? The ol' win with your own players argument? If he'd lost with them he'd have been considered a bad coach, if he wins with them then it was the previous guy. It's such a garbage response. Bruce Pearl won with Buzz Peterson's players, it must've been Buzz's hard work in Knoxville that set up Pearl. It's the most illogical messageboard fan argument you can have. And postseason tournaments matter, if you're playing after the conference tournament, it counts.

Why didn't the powers to be tear down the Ryman Theater, Fog Allen Field House, Butler's Field House, Rupp Arena, Duke Coliseum, Asheville Civic Center and all the other landmark arena's and stadium's. I guess renovating them was thought to be a much better deal than tearing them down.
What's the Ryman Theater? You mean Ryman Auditorium? And no it wasn't torn down because it's still used and is a viable venue for concerts, stand up comics and the Opry during the offseason and Christmas while the Rockettes are at the Opry House. Rupp is only 25 years old, and there are plans to build a new one. Asheville Civic Center needs work as well, but it's what they've got. What is Duke Coliseum? You mean Cameron Indoor Stadium? It hasn't changed very much and is truly built for basketball. Fans are right on top of the court. The same with Hinkle Fieldhouse (or as you say Butler Fieldhouse) and Fog Allen. Seriously, comparing places that have better sightlines, views and real history against an aging eyesore that wasn't taken care of and has ZERO history outside of people used to smoke weed at Skynard and Willie Nelson shows in there is absurd. Maybe the dumbest argument I've ever heard.


Why would you tear down FC? It would cost 60 million or more to replace the building and you would have the same number of seats. A renovation would cost 2-4 million. A 56 million dollar savings, not a bad idea in my thinking unless someone knows somebody willing to shell out 60 million. If you do know someone or some corporation, please tell them now is the time to step up.

I've said time and again that Freedom Hall could be renovated and be a serviceable venue for ETSU. For major concerts? No, because you can't sell alcohol there. But for ETSU, it could work. But it'll be more than 2-4 million dollars to get it right. All new seats, reinforced roof to hold a center hung videoboard, LED board across the arena inbetween the two decks, renovated concessions, bathrooms, locker rooms (and a dedicated room for ETSU), graphics, paint, expanded concourses and a better entrance. Lighting upgraded to modern, HD quality lights built for television as well as the electrical/wiring to handle modern sound as well as in house WiFi for media/university use as well as public one for FAN USE (And yes, that matters). It can happen, and I'm all for it but doing it right and not with a yard sale mentality is probably a 15-20 million dollar renovation. Which again, I'd be fine with even though it goes against everything Dr. Noland said about sports being on campus.

As a wrap up comment, I've heard all about the tremendous excitment and attendance at the SoCon tournament held in Asheville, N. C. and look forward to attending the tournament next March. I looked up the venue and couldn't believe it was an very old arena and had two levels. Didn't keep the BUC fans and students from going. Rather than tearing it down they renovated it and everyone I talk to can't wait to attend the tournament.

Everyone has a romanticized memory of the old Civic Center. It was great times, the Bucs were winning, great basketball, Mister, Talford, Geer, etc...
This is a new era. Let me repeat this, fans want more than cardboard/ketchup masked as pizza, warm soda and stale chips. ETSU fans liked Asheville because:
-It was close, and could be driven without a hotel stay.
-The teams were special
-The rivalry with Chattanooga was special.

You notice UNC-Asheville decided to build new instead of playing in a renovated Civic Center, right? And speaking of which, what did they renovate? I saw during the SoCon tourney they still had those old, nasty seats, old school scoreboards, etc... Did they improve fan amenities as far as restrooms, concessions, parking, and in house WiFi? The only change I saw in the seating areas were the addition of handrails. Asheville's venue is not as nice as the North Charleston Coliseum or even the Roundhouse, but I like it there as well. I'd liken that place to being like Municipal Auditorium in Nashville (where the OVC tourney is played typically).
But please keep telling yourself that a new coach and winning in a SoCon without Marshall/Appalachian will draw NEW FANS to Freedom Hall in the era of HD, Wifi, and all the other entertainment options out there.

I enjoy your posts. I get a picture of you standing in front of your computer, hair standing straight up, fire coming out your nostrils, a NCAA fact book, a ETSU sportsguide opened to post tournament records, a big role of FC building plans and codes, your arms frailing the air and a look on your face that would kill the fire marshall.

Keep them coming, laughter is great for the soul.

Not at all sweet cheeks. I just know my history and see it for what it is.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Hee!!! Hee!! Your so modest, a trait to be admired.

Stay in the Dome until a new venue can be built. Don't spend a dime on a city owned facility; history and common sense dictates that. Instead, spend the money on the basketball program, starting, of course, with the coach. The Dome was used for football and basketball from 1978 until 2003, and basketball had its best attendance ever during that era. Use it that way again (football practice when needed and basketball). Winning is the attendance answer. Win and they'll come, and that's a historical ETSU fact. The most fantastic arena around and a loser will not draw flies. Like I've said before, fix the fire marshall issues, use the place to its maximum -- even with the, daah, idea of making some income for athletics off the place.

DON'T MOVE ANY ATHLETICS OFF CAMPUS!!!

(05-01-2014 11:27 PM)bucgal Wrote:  Hee!!! Hee!! Your so modest, a trait to be admired.

Clearly YOU'RE not ETSU educated, or otherwise you might be able to grasp fifth grade grammar. Perhaps you should study the English language a little more and spend a little less drinking the Kool-Aid and towing the company line.


The sad thing is we agree on most things, Freedom Hall needs renovated, it just needs more than a couple of coats of paint and some light bulbs, you just don't seem to understand the concept that it will take more than an extroverted coach who wins these days to win over new fans, and bring some of the lost fans back.

(05-01-2014 11:07 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  You notice UNC-Asheville decided to build new instead of playing in a renovated Civic Center, right?

I don't have a dog in this discussion, but using the new UNCA facility is not relevant to this discussion.

1st, UNCA's old gym seated about 1k, and sold out only a few times per season.

Actually for a school with 3,000 students, that's not a bad size, and the Civic Center would never be considered for use as a replacement basketball facility due to it's seating size of over 7k, plus the UNCA athletic budget would not have been able to come up with the funds for the Civic Center Rental (even at a reduced price).

However, the Justice Center was old and needed replacing. Enter the state of NC. The state funded a new $41 million, N.C. Center for Health & Wellness facility on the UNCA campus to serve Western NC population. With a gift from Kimmel & Associates, UNCA was able to add the arena into the plans for the Health & Wellness facility. So the WILMA M. SHERRILL CENTER was built, and it includes the Health & Wellness Center and the Kimmel Arena at no cost to the university. The Kimmel Arena seats 3,200 for basketball. http://www.uncabulldogs.com/ViewArticle....=205437284

Great insight to how that got done.
Didnt Western at one time have some plans in place similar that called for a hotel to be built on campus and attached to Whitmire? Some kinda co-op deal to use state dollars to upgrade the stadium but get dual use out of it.
And UNC-A's arena is a great size for what they need.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Yes, I knew that UNCA had a new arena. Now anyone reading this board knows the 'why and the how' behind the building of the new arena.

Thank you CATS for real information, not speculative info.

I was educated to check my info before using them as facts.

I've noticed certain venues stagger the color of their seats giving off the illusion of fans in the stands. If renovations are done at Freedom Hall I hope they consider this an option. I'm sure someone on this board has the ear of the administration.

ETSU athletic funds or any ETSU funds should never be used on Freedom Hall.

(05-06-2014 07:57 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  ETSU athletic funds or any ETSU funds should never be used on Freedom Hall.

Well, lets go ahead and make the worst of it since we are committed to playing at FH in coming seasons!

...I appreciate the underlying assumption that uni funds should ideally stay on campus. But ETSU is trying to make the best of FH, which some (many?) view as a more viable basketball venue in itself, irrespective of proximity to campus. If we are going, we need to bring cash to do what we want. Mutually benefitial features, especially those that cannot be relocated, should see a fair financial contribution from the city, imo. But lets not count on it. ETSU will do no wrong by me so long we don't leave too much $ at FH. I will be more upset to see nothing don.e because of a debate over owner responsibility. Anything I ever wanted at old rental homes, I did myself and took with me when I moved. If it was permanent and useful to the landlord but not necessary, it was his decision to pay in full, contribute, or pass (after approving the change at all).

If any ETSU funds are used on Freedom Hall, we need to buy it from the city. We do not need to pay for someone else's facility, especially a landlord that runs like the city of Johnson City.

(05-07-2014 02:03 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  If any ETSU funds are used on Freedom Hall, we need to buy it from the city. We do not need to pay for someone else's facility, especially a landlord that runs like the city of Johnson City.

Not sure how that would work out since the 7th and 8th grade cafeteria is in Freedom Hall and it is used for other things as well.

What is this constant slamming of Johnson City?

I was not born and raised in JC but I've been here for several years and have seen a lot of good things happen in JC. I know that nobody or a city can please everyone.

Some of the things I've witnessed:

A beautiful Multi-use Activities Center with a large, dedicated Senior Citizen wing.

A total renovation and new education additions to Science Hill's High School.

A new 3,000 seat basketball gym at Science Hill.

A new 6,200 seat football stadium and track. The track is made available to ETSU's track program.

An ongoing renovation of downtown JC.

Provided space and monies to help bring N.E. STATE to downtown JC.

Several new schools, etc.

I know that are many other projects but I'm just throwing out some of the most visible.

As for ETSU and the City, what is wrong with partnering on projects that ETSU cannot afford and will not be able to afford for many years.
This type of partnership is done by universities and Cities everywhere.

Nearly every university is planning, building or has built an indoor practice facility. It is a much needed facility for ETSU.

I've heard so much critical talk about the Dome, especially from the football fans. Now some want to play football and basketball there. What will be different about he dome? Its no good for football, its ok for basketball, but the basketball coaches and players prefer FC. The fans voted 85% in several polls that they liked FC. I know 15% didn't like FC but if you were running a company, you would go with the 85% and try hard to make changes to your product to try to get as much of the unhappy 15%.

I have five questions.

1. What is the problem with JC helping get ETSU into a basketball arena until ETSU comes up 65 million for a new one?
2. What is the 'real' problem with playing at Science Hill until the stadium is completed since no other facility is available.
3. What is the problem with providing the teams with a true indoor practice facility?
4. What is the problem with JC providing funds and possibly additional land to help ETSU build a much larger PAC.
5. What is the problem with the leadership at ETSU? IMO, you can't compare what has been done and what is being been planned for ETSU's future in only two years against what the former leadership, did or didn't do, the past ten years.

I'm not trying to fuss or start an argument with anyone, just trying to figure out what is the thinking against getting better and new facilities asap for ETSU, the current students, the future students, the athletes, the fans and the Quad City area, rather than wait for 5-10 years for ETSU to somehow raise 100 million dollars for new facilities. IMO, ETSU can't raise 100 million in the needed time frame.

1. Many answers. My main issue is that JC takes too long to make any decision, and they screw up the process sometimes (see the recent General Mill story where they have to redo the entire process). And they do not want a partnership, they want ETSU to renovate the facility, and then charge ETSU to use it.

2. No problem at all, unless there is no movement regarding building a facility on campus. Take too long with that process, and you lose your credibility with donors and the relatively few football supporters.

3. No problem at all. Also no reason that the indoor practice facility cannot be used as a basketball arena approximately 20 times a year.

4. The city is considering donating a parcel to ETSU that, according to the news stories about it, ETSU will use as a parking lot. Yes, this will help make the PAC larger also. I have no problem with that, as long as the city does not give ETSU a special deal that they would not give another person wanting to develop that land. Regardless of the situation, the government should not pick winners and losers with its tax or land use policies.

5. I have very little problem with the leadership at ETSU. I do think that their "honeymoon" time is over, and they need to keep the momentum with football or they risk losing most of their progress.

(05-07-2014 07:00 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  1. Many answers. My main issue is that JC takes too long to make any decision, and they screw up the process sometimes (see the recent General Mill story where they have to redo the entire process). And they do not want a partnership, they want ETSU to renovate the facility, and then charge ETSU to use it.

2. No problem at all, unless there is no movement regarding building a facility on campus. Take too long with that process, and you lose your credibility with donors and the relatively few football supporters.

3. No problem at all. Also no reason that the indoor practice facility cannot be used as a basketball arena approximately 20 times a year.

4. The city is considering donating a parcel to ETSU that, according to the news stories about it, ETSU will use as a parking lot. Yes, this will help make the PAC larger also. I have no problem with that, as long as the city does not give ETSU a special deal that they would not give another person wanting to develop that land. Regardless of the situation, the government should not pick winners and losers with its tax or land use policies.

5. I have very little problem with the leadership at ETSU. I do think that their "honeymoon" time is over, and they need to keep the momentum with football or they risk losing most of their progress.

#4. With all the economic benefits that ETSU brings Johnson City, of course a special deal would be in order. Cities, counties, states offer businesses special deals all the time because of the economic benefits. ETSU has already overpaid JC far more over the years than the city could possibly ever return. To me the relationship between JC and ETSU is a one way deal, with the city getting 99% of the benefit.

(05-07-2014 07:00 PM)etsubuc Wrote:  2. No problem at all, unless there is no movement regarding building a facility on campus. Take too long with that process, and you lose your credibility with donors and the relatively few football supporters.

And, lose credibility with recruits as well.