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[OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
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grol Offline
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[OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
I've watched a little MLB this year, enough to know that I hate instant replay. What can we do to get rid of it? Is there a best way to exert fan pressure on MLB?

I think MLB umpires (as opposed to college) do a great job. They are a part of the game and have been since the 1800's -- I don't know my baseball history well enough to state how long we've had the typical 4-man crew. They even have more umps for the playoffs (supposedly more important games).

Players make mistakes (errors, bonehead plays, missed signs) and sometimes umpires make mistakes, too. It's part of the game. Why is there this insistence on getting everything right? First, it's impossible to do (even with instant replay), and second, the game grinds to a halt while the umps get on a headset with someone in NYC. It is not worth it.

I don't like instant replay in any sport, but I guess, it hurts the most watching baseball, cause I watch a lot of baseball.
04-28-2014 09:21 PM
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Post: #2
RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-28-2014 09:21 PM)grol Wrote:  I've watched a little MLB this year, enough to know that I hate instant replay. What can we do to get rid of it? Is there a best way to exert fan pressure on MLB?

I think MLB umpires (as opposed to college) do a great job. They are a part of the game and have been since the 1800's -- I don't know my baseball history well enough to state how long we've had the typical 4-man crew. They even have more umps for the playoffs (supposedly more important games).

Players make mistakes (errors, bonehead plays, missed signs) and sometimes umpires make mistakes, too. It's part of the game. Why is there this insistence on getting everything right? First, it's impossible to do (even with instant replay), and second, the game grinds to a halt while the umps get on a headset with someone in NYC. It is not worth it.

I don't like instant replay in any sport, but I guess, it hurts the most watching baseball, cause I watch a lot of baseball.

I love instant replay. A review reversed two calls in the Rangers game tonight. The key is to get the call right.
04-28-2014 10:01 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
With the money at stake, it makes sense to do all you can to get the calls right.
04-29-2014 06:54 AM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
For Astros fans: Fred Brocklander.

For St. Louis fans: Don Denkinger.
04-29-2014 07:43 AM
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Memphis Owl Offline
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[OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
Joe Savery


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04-29-2014 07:47 AM
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NolaOwl Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-29-2014 07:47 AM)Memphis Owl Wrote:  Joe Savery


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Boy, do I agree with you on that call against Joe! Unfortunately, so far, MLB instant replay does not allow for challenges to ball and strike calls.

Groll, I feel for you. I'm a purist myself and hate the AL's DH rule for instance and the World Series home team determined on the All Star game. But so far, with instant replay averaging only a 2+ minute delay, I'm okay with it. Sure, players make errors, but that is based on their relative skills. No one goes to a baseball game to watch the umpires. So, I'm all for getting it right so long as there is no undue long delay.
04-29-2014 08:18 AM
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-29-2014 08:18 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  
(04-29-2014 07:47 AM)Memphis Owl Wrote:  Joe Savery


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Boy, do I agree with you on that call against Joe! Unfortunately, so far, MLB instant replay does not allow for challenges to ball and strike calls.

Groll, I feel for you. I'm a purist myself and hate the AL's DH rule for instance and the World Series home team determined on the All Star game. But so far, with instant replay averaging only a 2+ minute delay, I'm okay with it. Sure, players make errors, but that is based on their relative skills. No one goes to a baseball game to watch the umpires. So, I'm all for getting it right so long as there is no undue long delay.

Paging Mr. Oros...Paging Mr. Oros...
04-29-2014 08:33 AM
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louismcc Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
The problem with replay is that baseball is a rhythm game and these replays break that rhythm, especially for the pitchers. Infielders also lose a bit of their focus when standing around and batters might lose that shot of adrenalin from the previous at bat.
04-29-2014 08:40 AM
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georgewebb Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-29-2014 08:18 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  I'm a purist myself and hate the AL's DH rule for instance and the World Series home team determined on the All Star game.

I don't quite follow that particular logic. The historic way of determining home team for the series was whether the year happened to be an even or odd number. What is meritorious about that?

As stated in previous threads, the All-Star scheme is no more rational than the previous "divide by two and see if there is a remainder" scheme, but it is at least slightly more interesting. That makes it arguably better, and certainly no worse.

Granted, it would be trivially easy to devise schemes that are both more interesting AND more rational, and which would thus be inarguably better than either of the above schemes. But they, too, would violate purity.
04-29-2014 08:41 AM
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georgewebb Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
If anyone were serious reducing undue delays in baseball, the time devoted to instant reply would be the least of their concerns.
04-29-2014 08:43 AM
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Da.Owl Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-29-2014 08:43 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  If anyone were serious reducing undue delays in baseball, the time devoted to instant reply would be the least of their concerns.

+1 ... Let's kill throwing the ball around the infield after a putout. Tell the batter not to go through the "resnap-every-snap-on-the-uni-after-every-pitch" routine. Let the pitcher pitch the ball !05-mafia

None of this will happen until TV $$$ demand the game fit into a predefined time slot for broadcast purposes.
04-29-2014 09:25 AM
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-29-2014 08:33 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  
(04-29-2014 08:18 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  
(04-29-2014 07:47 AM)Memphis Owl Wrote:  Joe Savery


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Boy, do I agree with you on that call against Joe! Unfortunately, so far, MLB instant replay does not allow for challenges to ball and strike calls.

Groll, I feel for you. I'm a purist myself and hate the AL's DH rule for instance and the World Series home team determined on the All Star game. But so far, with instant replay averaging only a 2+ minute delay, I'm okay with it. Sure, players make errors, but that is based on their relative skills. No one goes to a baseball game to watch the umpires. So, I'm all for getting it right so long as there is no undue long delay.

Paging Mr. Oros...Paging Mr. Oros...

+1

I was thinking the same thing.
04-29-2014 09:29 AM
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georgewebb Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-29-2014 09:25 AM)Da.Owl Wrote:  
(04-29-2014 08:43 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  If anyone were serious reducing undue delays in baseball, the time devoted to instant reply would be the least of their concerns.

+1 ... Let's kill throwing the ball around the infield after a putout. Tell the batter not to go through the "resnap-every-snap-on-the-uni-after-every-pitch" routine. Let the pitcher pitch the ball !05-mafia

None of this will happen until TV $$$ demand the game fit into a predefined time slot for broadcast purposes.

Man, that is excruciating!
Tennis, which similarly has no game clock, has clear rules for maintaining pace of play, for example:
- Server to serve within 20 seconds of end of previous point
- Server not to serve until the receiver is ready, BUT the receiver to play to the pace of the server -- i.e. server should not have to wait on the receiver
- Receiver, once ready, not allowed to become unready
- After a fault, second serve to be right away (not a new 20 seconds)
- 90 seconds on change of ends
- Two minutes between sets
The penalties for time violations are a formal warning, and then a point penalty.

These seem readily translatable to baseball:
- Pitcher to be ready to pitch and batter ready to hit within __ seconds previous play
- Batter to play to the pace of the pitcher
- Batter, once ready, not allowed to become unready
- After a pitch with no fielding play (i.e., it's a called strike, swing and miss, or ball), next pitch to be right away
- __ seconds between at-bats
- __ seconds between innings

One tricky issue is how to take base running into account (for which tennis offers no analogy). Making the pace of pitching faster necessarily makes it more predictable, which necessarily advantages the baserunner. But I think some increased base stealing as the price of faster play* is a tradeoff worth making. After all, watching people and things in motion (whether a pitched ball or a baserunner) is a lot more interesting that watching people and things standing still.

*To be clear, pace of play and length of game are not exactly the same thing, but baseball needs to improve both.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2014 10:17 AM by georgewebb.)
04-29-2014 10:15 AM
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grol Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-29-2014 08:18 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  No one goes to a baseball game to watch the umpires. So, I'm all for getting it right so long as there is no undue long delay.

Watching on TV, all you see is a clatch of umpires standing around for 2+ minutes. In the stands it would be different, but on TV it's all about the umpires.
04-29-2014 10:55 AM
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talon owl Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
If you want to save baseball from a pacing standpoint and for the long-run, it's going to have to be more radical than that. Try 2 strikes you're out, 3 balls is a walk.

That should give everybody a bit more urgency.
(This post was last modified: 04-29-2014 11:07 AM by talon owl.)
04-29-2014 11:07 AM
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georgewebb Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-29-2014 10:55 AM)grol Wrote:  
(04-29-2014 08:18 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  No one goes to a baseball game to watch the umpires. So, I'm all for getting it right so long as there is no undue long delay.

Watching on TV, all you see is a clatch of umpires standing around for 2+ minutes. In the stands it would be different, but on TV it's all about the umpires.

A practice that baseball and other sports could take from football is to have the crew chief formally articulate the result of the review, with a mike to the PA system. The way the NFL does this is great: the referee gets to a middle spot on the field, faces the crowd and the camera, and clearly articulates the ruling and a short factual explanation. In baseball, the umpires just vaguely point, as if one of their goals is to provide as little explanation as possible.

You might say that one is sort of a legalistic approach to officiating, while the other is more of an imperious approach.
04-29-2014 11:10 AM
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Post: #17
RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
I like that baseball has a 30 second to challenge policy and that they allowed teams to view replays before coming out to challenge. How much time has been saved from the Earl Weavers yelling, kicking, flinging bases over a call at first because before the manager came out he was told his argument had no merit. There has been what, one manager ejected thus far. Seems to me if you totaled up the time for replays vs the time spent on arguments before the game is actually shorter now.

The NHL replay works well and I think baseball was wise to copy what the NHL did with setting up a league based review group that was proactive in looking at possible controversial plays and cutting down the time in rendering decisions.

I am in the same camp as others who are more or less baseball purists and hate the DH, Astros in the AL, and the lack of stirrups but I am in favor of the replay especially now that they widened its use beyond just HR calls.
04-29-2014 12:48 PM
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Post: #18
RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
dark glasses ruined the game. that and the big bills on the caps.

OK, so I'm not a purist. But I think replay is a good thing. maybe needs some kinks worked out. I would rather wait two minutes than talk about it for ten years.
04-29-2014 12:53 PM
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75src Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
The replays have shown that they usually get the calls right to begin with. A home run or foul call is the least likely to delay the game too much since the game was stopped anyway.
04-29-2014 01:20 PM
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Rick Gerlach Offline
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RE: [OT] Instant replay is bad for baseball
(04-29-2014 11:07 AM)talon owl Wrote:  If you want to save baseball from a pacing standpoint and for the long-run, it's going to have to be more radical than that. Try 2 strikes you're out, 3 balls is a walk.

That should give everybody a bit more urgency.

Strikeout rate is already at historic high levels. I like well-pitched games, but every game does not need to be 1-0.
04-29-2014 01:31 PM
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