Realistically, I read how much more dominate the SEC is in football, even on our on board. But top to bottom is the SEC really that dominate? I think the ACC is just as good and getting better, I see the schools putting more focus and money into their programs. I think FSU winning the championship against the SEC champion was the tip of the iceberg and I think that the ACC is getting ready to spread its wings.

(04-24-2014 12:44 PM)7thHeaven Wrote:  Realistically, I read how much more dominate the SEC is in football, even on our on board. But top to bottom is the SEC really that dominate? I think the ACC is just as good and getting better, I see the schools putting more focus and money into their programs. I think FSU winning the championship against the SEC champion was the tip of the iceberg and I think that the ACC is getting ready to spread its wings.

Yes.

The SEC has more depth and more passion than the ACC in FB.

SEC "dominance" is mostly attributable to 4 teams - Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and Florida (when Spurrier and Meyer were there) - and to the fact that S Car and UGa both hold 5-year winning streaks over their in-state rivals (to be fair, S Car and UGa are both very good, but not on the level of the 1st 4 teams mentioned).

Also, in any given year there are only about 2 or 3 national championship contenders in the SEC. That is better than the ACC has been (some years NO contenders; typically no more than 1 or 2), but I agree that the ACC appears to be on the rebound while the SEC's reign may be coming to an end.

(04-24-2014 01:00 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  SEC "dominance" is mostly attributable to 4 teams - Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and Florida (when Spurrier and Meyer were there) - and to the fact that S Car and UGa both hold 5-year winning streaks over their in-state rivals (to be fair, S Car and UGa are both very good, but not on the level of the 1st 4 teams mentioned).

Also, in any given year there are only about 2 or 3 national championship contenders in the SEC. That is better than the ACC has been (some years NO contenders; typically no more than 1 or 2), but I agree that the ACC appears to be on the rebound while the SEC's reign may be coming to an end.

Every conference is top heavy. The SEC is no exception. That being said, over the past four years the SEC has won 63% of its games against BCS opponents. The ACC won 39%. The SEC won 66% of its games against the ACC. You can call that dominance, or just superiority. You just can't call it parity.

SEC football dominance can be attributed to their ability (albeit shady) to recruit top flight players every single year to almost every team in the conference.

(04-24-2014 01:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  The SEC won 66% of its games against the ACC. You can call that dominance, or just superiority. You just can't call it parity.

They do it in part through manipulating the match-ups. Consider these 2014 OOC schedules:

Vanderbilt: Temple, UMass, Charleston Southern, Old Dominion
Mississippi St: So. Miss., UAB, S Alabama, UT Martin
Ole Miss: Boise St, UL Lafayette, Memphis, Presbyterian
Texas AM: Lamar, Rice, SMU, ULM

Those 4 teams CAN'T lose to a P5 opponent - because they don't play any!

(04-24-2014 12:44 PM)7thHeaven Wrote:  Realistically, I read how much more dominate ....

Are there really this many people that don't know the difference between "dominant" and "dominate"? I see these mistakes all the time.

(04-24-2014 02:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 01:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  The SEC won 66% of its games against the ACC. You can call that dominance, or just superiority. You just can't call it parity.

They do it in part through manipulating the match-ups. Consider these 2014 OOC schedules:

Vanderbilt: Temple, UMass, Charleston Southern, Old Dominion
Mississippi St: So. Miss., UAB, S Alabama, UT Martin
Ole Miss: Boise St, UL Lafayette, Memphis, Presbyterian
Texas AM: Lamar, Rice, SMU, ULM

Those 4 teams CAN'T lose to a P5 opponent - because they don't play any!

NC State: Georgia Southern, Old Dominion, Presbyterian, South Florida
Wake : UL-Monroe, Gardner-Webb, Utah State, Army

Ole Miss alone is playing more 2013 bowl teams than Wake and NCSU combined.

Let those without sin cast the first stone.

(04-24-2014 02:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 01:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  The SEC won 66% of its games against the ACC. You can call that dominance, or just superiority. You just can't call it parity.

They do it in part through manipulating the match-ups. Consider these 2014 OOC schedules:

Vanderbilt: Temple, UMass, Charleston Southern, Old Dominion
Mississippi St: So. Miss., UAB, S Alabama, UT Martin
Ole Miss: Boise St, UL Lafayette, Memphis, Presbyterian
Texas AM: Lamar, Rice, SMU, ULM

Those 4 teams CAN'T lose to a P5 opponent - because they don't play any!

Exactly!!^^^

You can also add kentucky, ....and Tennessee has sucked for the longest.
FlossY out...

(04-24-2014 03:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 02:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 01:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  The SEC won 66% of its games against the ACC. You can call that dominance, or just superiority. You just can't call it parity.

They do it in part through manipulating the match-ups. Consider these 2014 OOC schedules:

Vanderbilt: Temple, UMass, Charleston Southern, Old Dominion
Mississippi St: So. Miss., UAB, S Alabama, UT Martin
Ole Miss: Boise St, UL Lafayette, Memphis, Presbyterian
Texas AM: Lamar, Rice, SMU, ULM

Those 4 teams CAN'T lose to a P5 opponent - because they don't play any!

NC State: Georgia Southern, Old Dominion, Presbyterian, South Florida
Wake : UL-Monroe, Gardner-Webb, Utah State, Army

Ole Miss alone is playing more 2013 bowl teams than Wake and NCSU combined.

Let those without sin cast the first stone.

My point was that ACC teams never get a shot at the bottom of the SEC, whereas SEC teams HAVE played NC State (vs Tenn.) and Wake (vs Vandy). That right there skews the numbers. Add to that the fact that Alabama has already played in 3 Chick-Fil-A Kickoff Games but FSU has yet to be invited to even one...

Last year Alabama (2nd best SEC West team) beat Va Tech (2nd best ACC Coastal); I'm pretty sure the 2nd best ACC Atlantic team (Clemson) could be the 2nd best SEC East team (S Carolina)... oh, maybe not!

The SEC's strength is local recruiting and at Defensive Tackle and has been for the last 12-15 years.

Each top SEC team has 3-4 monsters while the comparable ACC teams have 1, sometimes 2. These monsters keep SEC teams in games when they have no real offense and the ACC has had the better QB's over the past 2 decades.

The SEC's recruiting base is structured such that all the schools with the exception of Missouri and Kentucky are located in "football states" where football is the unquestioned top sport. Only FSU, Clemson, Miami, and GT are so located. NC is a particular problem since you have 4 B-5, and 5 FBS school recruiting in a state with 10 million people. Toss out any two of UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake, and ECU and football teams in NC would immediately improve.

(04-24-2014 04:00 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 03:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 02:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 01:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  The SEC won 66% of its games against the ACC. You can call that dominance, or just superiority. You just can't call it parity.

They do it in part through manipulating the match-ups. Consider these 2014 OOC schedules:

Vanderbilt: Temple, UMass, Charleston Southern, Old Dominion
Mississippi St: So. Miss., UAB, S Alabama, UT Martin
Ole Miss: Boise St, UL Lafayette, Memphis, Presbyterian
Texas AM: Lamar, Rice, SMU, ULM

Those 4 teams CAN'T lose to a P5 opponent - because they don't play any!

NC State: Georgia Southern, Old Dominion, Presbyterian, South Florida
Wake : UL-Monroe, Gardner-Webb, Utah State, Army

Ole Miss alone is playing more 2013 bowl teams than Wake and NCSU combined.

Let those without sin cast the first stone.

My point was that ACC teams never get a shot at the bottom of the SEC, whereas SEC teams HAVE played NC State (vs Tenn.) and Wake (vs Vandy). That right there skews the numbers. Add to that the fact that Alabama has already played in 3 Chick-Fil-A Kickoff Games but FSU has yet to be invited to even one...

Last year Alabama (2nd best SEC West team) beat Va Tech (2nd best ACC Coastal); I'm pretty sure the 2nd best ACC Atlantic team (Clemson) could be the 2nd best SEC East team (S Carolina)... oh, maybe not!

Wake's schedule this year was impacted by moving the ND game to next year. NC State's schedule was impacted losing the home and home with Oklahoma State that was scheduled for 14 and 15, but cancelled by OSU and not replaced with a decent game because the ACC was committing to 9 ACC games when OSU backed-out.

That mostSEC schools schedule light OOC games is not even in question. Only LSU, Auburn, Georgia and Tenn. have any recent history of playing a challenging OOC slate. Florida plays FSU because they can't duck them.

Perhaps we should look at the OOC slates for the last five years to make a valid comparison as one year does not make a trend. [/i]

(04-24-2014 04:13 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  That mostSEC schools schedule light OOC games is not even in question. Only LSU, Auburn, Georgia and Tenn. have any recent history of playing a challenging OOC slate. Florida plays FSU because they can't duck them.

Under Saban Alabama has played either a home and home or neutral site game against BCS/P5 competition every year since 2008 and running through till 2015 when they play Wisconsin in Arlington, TX.

Arkansas has played either a home and home or neutral site game against BCS/P5 competition every year since 2008 and running through 2019 when they host Michigan.

Texas A&M has historically played at least one BCS/P5 level opponent every year, but moving to the SEC took away the one they had lined up for 2012, 2013, and 2014 (and beyond. A&M and Arkansas had signed a 10 year deal to play in Arlington every year), and they were forced to scramble to fill the slots. Starting in 2015 they have home and homes or neutral site games with P5 competition every year through 2019.

Scoff at Florida if you want, but in 2013 they played twice as many BCS teams OOC as NC State has in 2013, 2014, and 2015 combined.

Missouri, Kentucky, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, and Georgia all play at minimum one BCS/P5 opponent every year, and most years they play two. So you are talking about two programs with a chronic history of light scheduling.

Anybody who says cheaters never win has never watched SEC football or been to Washington DC.

(04-24-2014 05:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:13 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  That mostSEC schools schedule light OOC games is not even in question. Only LSU, Auburn, Georgia and Tenn. have any recent history of playing a challenging OOC slate. Florida plays FSU because they can't duck them.

Under Saban Alabama has played either a home and home or neutral site game against BCS/P5 competition every year since 2008 and running through till 2015 when they play Wisconsin in Arlington, TX.

Arkansas has played either a home and home or neutral site game against BCS/P5 competition every year since 2008 and running through 2019 when they host Michigan.

Texas A&M has historically played at least one BCS/P5 level opponent every year, but moving to the SEC took away the one they had lined up for 2012, 2013, and 2014 (and beyond. A&M and Arkansas had signed a 10 year deal to play in Arlington every year), and they were forced to scramble to fill the slots. Starting in 2015 they have home and homes or neutral site games with P5 competition every year through 2019.

Scoff at Florida if you want, but in 2013 they played twice as many BCS teams OOC as NC State has in 2013, 2014, and 2015 combined.

Missouri, Kentucky, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, and Georgia all play at minimum one BCS/P5 opponent every year, and most years they play two. So you are talking about two programs with a chronic history of light scheduling.

Aren't you doing a little cherry picking too? Wake's OOC P5 opponents since 2008:

2008: Baylor, Ole Miss, Vandy
2009: Baylor, Stanford
2010: Stanford, Vandy
2011: Syracuse, Notre Dame, Vandy
2012: Notre Dame, Vandy
2013: Vandy

(04-24-2014 02:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 01:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  The SEC won 66% of its games against the ACC. You can call that dominance, or just superiority. You just can't call it parity.

They do it in part through manipulating the match-ups. Consider these 2014 OOC schedules:

Vanderbilt: Temple, UMass, Charleston Southern, Old Dominion
Mississippi St: So. Miss., UAB, S Alabama, UT Martin
Ole Miss: Boise St, UL Lafayette, Memphis, Presbyterian
Texas AM: Lamar, Rice, SMU, ULM

Those 4 teams CAN'T lose to a P5 opponent - because they don't play any!

That doesn't address the statistics involving the ACC-SEC games that are played, or the records the two conferences have against all BCS conference opponents. The fact is that it isn't just the SEC that have better records against the BCS, or against the FBS, or against all OOC opponents. The ACC has consistently brought up the rear among power conferences, and the SEC has consistently been at or near the top.

If you are in charge of marketing for the ACC I can see making the best case you can. But it's hard to think that when anybody else does it that it's more than denial. I would be the first to argue that the difference between the leagues isn't as great as pundits would suggest. But "not as great" isn't the same as "not real".

(04-24-2014 05:53 PM)Buckminster Fuller Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 05:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:13 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  That mostSEC schools schedule light OOC games is not even in question. Only LSU, Auburn, Georgia and Tenn. have any recent history of playing a challenging OOC slate. Florida plays FSU because they can't duck them.

Under Saban Alabama has played either a home and home or neutral site game against BCS/P5 competition every year since 2008 and running through till 2015 when they play Wisconsin in Arlington, TX.

Arkansas has played either a home and home or neutral site game against BCS/P5 competition every year since 2008 and running through 2019 when they host Michigan.

Texas A&M has historically played at least one BCS/P5 level opponent every year, but moving to the SEC took away the one they had lined up for 2012, 2013, and 2014 (and beyond. A&M and Arkansas had signed a 10 year deal to play in Arlington every year), and they were forced to scramble to fill the slots. Starting in 2015 they have home and homes or neutral site games with P5 competition every year through 2019.

Scoff at Florida if you want, but in 2013 they played twice as many BCS teams OOC as NC State has in 2013, 2014, and 2015 combined.

Missouri, Kentucky, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, and Georgia all play at minimum one BCS/P5 opponent every year, and most years they play two. So you are talking about two programs with a chronic history of light scheduling.

Aren't you doing a little cherry picking too? Wake's OOC P5 opponents since 2008:

2008: Baylor, Ole Miss, Vandy
2009: Baylor, Stanford
2010: Stanford, Vandy
2011: Syracuse, Notre Dame, Vandy
2012: Notre Dame, Vandy
2013: Vandy

Not at all. I only commented on Wake's OOC schedule this year. The delusional wolfpacker (redundant I know) was the one who made the erroneous statement that most SEC teams scheduled light.

(04-24-2014 05:51 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Anybody who says cheaters never win has never watched SEC football or been to Washington DC.

I second that!!

(04-24-2014 05:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 04:13 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  That mostSEC schools schedule light OOC games is not even in question. Only LSU, Auburn, Georgia and Tenn. have any recent history of playing a challenging OOC slate. Florida plays FSU because they can't duck them.

Under Saban Alabama has played either a home and home or neutral site game against BCS/P5 competition every year since 2008 and running through till 2015 when they play Wisconsin in Arlington, TX.

Arkansas has played either a home and home or neutral site game against BCS/P5 competition every year since 2008 and running through 2019 when they host Michigan.

Texas A&M has historically played at least one BCS/P5 level opponent every year, but moving to the SEC took away the one they had lined up for 2012, 2013, and 2014 (and beyond. A&M and Arkansas had signed a 10 year deal to play in Arlington every year), and they were forced to scramble to fill the slots. Starting in 2015 they have home and homes or neutral site games with P5 competition every year through 2019.

Scoff at Florida if you want, but in 2013 they played twice as many BCS teams OOC as NC State has in 2013, 2014, and 2015 combined.

Missouri, Kentucky, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, and Georgia all play at minimum one BCS/P5 opponent every year, and most years they play two. So you are talking about two programs with a chronic history of light scheduling.

So P-5 memberships makes a team tough - didn't know that.

If you are top 10 program and you are scheduling teams in the middle of the P-5 as an OOC game you are still scheduling "lite"