(04-26-2014 02:37 PM)ksu sucks Wrote:  

(04-26-2014 02:16 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  BTW, Zips fans, anybody else not being able to get into zipsnation? I haven't been able to get in since this plan was released. I'm interested in seeing what the talk is there.

It's been down (off and on) since the announcement. I'm assuming they can't handle the increase in traffic created by this announcement.

Thanks. That's what I figured. I guess that could be taken in a good away in that people are interested in UA athletics. Hopefully, it leads to a server update. I've been trying to get in the last 4 days and get timed out every time, even late at night.

I noticed some people (either here or on Zipsnation) were skeptical that the necessary sales tax increase would even pass. It's worth noting that this issue is purely a matter of marketing. If they can properly disguise this as an increase to fund 911 and emergency radio equipment (and oh yeah, something something...new arena...something something) the average Summit county voter would probably vote for it.

The reality is that more of the money is going toward something besides the arena. Of the $20 mill raised per year "only" $7 mill is going toward funding for the new arena.

OTOH if the local media somehow turns this into a chance to make a mountain out of a mole hill I could just as easily see the average summit county yokel headed to the ballot box, pitchforks in hand, to vote this down into oblivion.

So it will be an interesting next year. Does anyone know when they will vote on this?

(04-26-2014 02:47 PM)ksu sucks Wrote:  I noticed some people (either here or on Zipsnation) were skeptical that the necessary sales tax increase would even pass. It's worth noting that this issue is purely a matter of marketing. If they can properly disguise this as an increase to fund 911 and emergency radio equipment (and oh yeah, something something...new arena...something something) the average Summit county voter would probably vote for it.

The reality is that more of the money is going toward something besides the arena. Of the $20 mill raised per year "only" $7 mill is going toward funding for the new arena.

OTOH if the local media somehow turns this into a chance to make a mountain out of a mole hill I could just as easily see the average summit county yokel headed to the ballot box, pitchforks in hand, to vote this down into oblivion.

So it will be an interesting next year. Does anyone know when they will vote on this?

I'm under the impression that it will be on the November general ballot. That could be good, IMO, since it will bring a lot of people (especially Democrats who are likely to be more pro-tax increase). And Democrats generally come out more in general elections than primaries/special elections.

I agree, getting this passed is going to be all about marketing and selling that this isn't "an arena tax." As I said in a previous post, I think naming Tressel president will help in that regard. Give him 5-6 months to sell this and I think there is a good shot it gets passed... though still it's 50-50 IMO.

The one thing that worries me is that a lot of the Northern Summit County transplants from Cuyahoga County are probably to be against it. The areas of Macedonia, Twinsburg, Northfield, etc., are full of people with no ties to Akron and are mainly leaving Cuyahoga due to the lower tax rates. Add into that that some of the most pro-UA areas are just outside Summit County and won't get to vote either ... IE Jackson, Uniontown (Stark) and Wadsworth (Medina). I'm going to be one of those people living in Wadsworth.

Still, as long as the school/city/county can properly sell this plan (especially since it does include a much-needed 911 upgrade), I think it can squeak by.

BTW, this could be relevant, too. Stark County a couple of years ago also passed a 0.25 percent sales tax increase, and a big part of that also went to 911 upgrades. So seems like that could be a major selling point to drive home to get the on-the-fence people to go to yes votes.

EDIT: Stark County actually passed a 0.50 percent increase (so double what Summit is asking for). And that passed by a 56-44 margin. To be fair, though, even with that 0.50 increase, Stark still went from the lowest rate in the state to tied for the lowest at 6.5 percent. The Summit increase would make it 7 percent (so higher than Stark regardless if it passes or not). But even at 7 percent, Summit would still be at or below the rate of 61 of Ohio's 88 counties.

(04-26-2014 03:06 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  I'm under the impression that it will be on the November general ballot. That could be good, IMO, since it will bring a lot of people (especially Democrats who are likely to be more pro-tax increase). And Democrats generally come out more in general elections than primaries/special elections.

Yeah, the gubernatorial election is the second best election to try this in, after a Presidential general election. If they tried it in the primary election of an odd-numbered year it would have much lower chances for success.

After thinking about it and talking to people today at the Mayflower, I see three things that would derail this(for the record, I am a HUGE Zips fan):

The First one is the Mayflower. The building is senior/disabled housing. With that being said, the City was also looking to get a grant along with the loan(thank you Wadszip for the posted link). The second they put a shovel into the ground, you got a federal lawsuit on the City's hands. If that happens, it goes to the back of the line, so it could take years to even get a hearing.

The second is what is at the other end of the block. The Kasier Building. Not I am not sure if it is on the Historical places list. However if it is, you just cannot knock it down, there is tons of red tape and you just cannot just move it(it is too big). You would have to keep the building, or see first paragraph on what could happen.

The third is what nobody is taking about yet, and that is the Civic. Being one of five left, they would consider it a threat. If that happens, the Akron Community Foundation(which has serious weight here), would jump in and make it a PR nightmare for the city. If it ever got to that point, this ballot would be DOA in November.

IMHO, they should build it west of Canal Park

(04-26-2014 07:35 PM)lance99 Wrote:  After thinking about it and talking to people today at the Mayflower, I see three things that would derail this(for the record, I am a HUGE Zips fan):

The First one is the Mayflower. The building is senior/disabled housing. With that being said, the City was also looking to get a grant along with the loan (thank you Wadszip for the posted link). The second they put a shovel into the ground, you got a federal lawsuit on the City's hands. If that happens, it goes to the back of the line, so it could take years to even get a hearing.

The loan was turned down, according to the Beacon Journal article I referred to:

Quote: Marilyn Babo, who heads the Mayflower’s tenant association, said Thursday that she hadn’t heard about the arena plans. She said she had heard that Akron hadn’t gotten federal funds to acquire the building, but that there was continued interest in the building.

Babo said she’s been at the Mayflower for 18 years and there’s been interest in the building that whole time. She said she’s waiting for someone to tell her something definitive has been decided and that she has to move.

“We’re still standing,” she said of the Mayflower. “We’re still here.”

Ohio needs to get out of the business of guilting the population into higher taxes for schools, zoos, park systems, Mentel health and the like and find other ways to make these things happen. Since leaving Ohio I have enjoyed not being asked for these handouts at every election and enjoyed the lower property tax bills as well


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(04-27-2014 09:20 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  Ohio needs to get out of the business of guilting the population into higher taxes for schools, zoos, park systems, Mentel health and the like and find other ways to make these things happen. Since leaving Ohio I have enjoyed not being asked for these handouts at every election and enjoyed the lower property tax bills as well


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At the risk of derailing this thread, do these things just miracle themselves into existence in other states? Do you just not value these things? Public services like schools and parks are pretty fundamental to a decent society and they aren't free.

The arena, however, is a different matter. I think it's good for the MAC if Akron gets this done, and I hope it becomes successful. If, however, I lived in Summit County, I would not vote for this levy. I might if the JAR was full all the time, but it's far from it. Zips fans claim that a better arena will lead to more fans, but I think that's crap. The Zips have been great for the better part of a decade. They can't sell out a pretty small gym. The community doesn't seem to care, and students are hardly overwhelming in their support. The JAR sucks, but it's not as disappointing to me as the level of support Akron gets in relation to its long track record of success. A new arena would be a novelty that might bump attendance a bit the first year. It's not a panacea for the apathy toward the Zips in Summit County.

(04-27-2014 09:46 AM)Copy Cat Wrote:  

(04-27-2014 09:20 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  Ohio needs to get out of the business of guilting the population into higher taxes for schools, zoos, park systems, Mentel health and the like and find other ways to make these things happen. Since leaving Ohio I have enjoyed not being asked for these handouts at every election and enjoyed the lower property tax bills as well


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At the risk of derailing this thread, do these things just miracle themselves into existence in other states? Do you just not value these things? Public services like schools and parks are pretty fundamental to a decent society and they aren't free.

The arena, however, is a different matter. I think it's good for the MAC if Akron gets this done, and I hope it becomes successful. If, however, I lived in Summit County, I would not vote for this levy. I might if the JAR was full all the time, but it's far from it. Zips fans claim that a better arena will lead to more fans, but I think that's crap. The Zips have been great for the better part of a decade. They can't sell out a pretty small gym. The community doesn't seem to care, and students are hardly overwhelming in their support. The JAR sucks, but it's not as disappointing to me as the level of support Akron gets in relation to its long track record of success. A new arena would be a novelty that might bump attendance a bit the first year. It's not a panacea for the apathy toward the Zips in Summit County.

Well actually in many other states they do the tax but they don't ask you to directly vote on it. Sometimes you just vote for the people that make those choices and if you think they do poorly you vote them out in the next election.

I honestly hate how Ohio does everything. It is really annoying and on top of that in so many areas many things that should be funded don't (such as a school) but then they will decide to make a new rec center in the nice part of town.

I know that I have never been accosted by people on both sides of an issue telling me to vote for all sorts of crap while I lived in New York. I am sure they were there but I certainly get that so much.

(04-27-2014 05:29 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  At the risk of derailing this thread, do these things just miracle themselves into existence in other states? Do you just not value these things? Public services like schools and parks are pretty fundamental to a decent society and they aren't free.

The arena, however, is a different matter.

There's a good bit of moving the toothpaste around the tube going on. If Ohio's state ledge decides to cut various state taxes, and balance that by cutting transfers to and increasing responsibilities of local governments, then that puts local governments in a bind and they turn to property and sales taxes to try to get out of it. That seems like its pretty much baked in under the current state ledge gerrymander, and it seems like it leads to constant local tax fights over basic public services. Focus in on the areas with declining local industries and the declining local income tax base that goes with it, and that only makes that worse.

But things like getting the public to pay for a new Arena or Stadium or pony up some subsidy to public transport to try to offset the massive welfare to the road transport system, there its not unusual in big and medium sized cities all over the country for those to involve a fight over some dedicated local tax of some sort.

One of the pieces fell out of the puzzle - if Akron was hoping Tressel would help get support for the arena/911 vote, he just got approved as president by the trustees at Youngstown State.

It's a bummer when you lose an athlete recruit to a FCS school, but when you lose a candidate for president? And the previous president transferred to Southern Illinois?

Akron should count their blessings that that slime ball is moving on.