(04-24-2014 10:45 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 12:42 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  any school that embraces players unionizing might as well just toss in the towel on athletics and possibly even on staying open as a university

again I have said this before and and will continue to say it......being an EMPLOYEE means just that YOU ARE AN EMPLOYEE......no more making sexual comments to other STUDENTS in class.....no more making sexual comments to your CO WORKER that happens to be your tutor.......no longer making sexual comments to STUDENTS in line at the cafeteria and on and on......you are an EMPLOYEE OF THE UNIVERSITY just like the dorm cleaning staff, the dorm maintenance staff, the professors, the librarians, the financial aid office staff and on and on and NONE of them are allowed to make passes at STUDENTS because no student (and no parent even though the vast majority of students are adults) is going to put up with EMPLOYEES sexually harassing and or making a pass at their student/child/young adult PERIOD

if I had a daughter and she was telling me the cleaning staff or the air conditioner guy was telling her she had a nice ass while fixing something in her room I would be looking to have his ass fired PERIOD.......if I was a female student and people working the lunch line (even if fellow students as well) were saying things to me about how I was dressed or how I looked I would be looking to have their asses FIRED just like if I was at any other business and not expecting to be sexually (or any other way) harassed by the EMPLOYEES

and there is ZERO chance that a university can or will be able to say "well they are not really employees they are student athletes and we just call them employees and give them pay and benefits, but they are not employees" because then legitimate employees will want to be able to say things to the cute girls in the library, the girls in the dorm that they went to fix the AC for or the shower for and on and on and they will want to be able to say things to their cute coworkers in the office pool and on and on and THAT will not be happening as well

you can't have two sets of HR rules for different groups of EMPLOYEES period the end unless you want to end up in numerous lawsuits where you lose lots and lots of money over and over for many reasons

the moment student athletes move from STUDENT athletes to EMPLOYEES is the moment they lose a TON of leeway on how things like dealing with students (real students), faculty, staff and on and on is handled and how things like drug use and even off campus behaviors are handled because as an EMPLOYEE you are going to be subjected to 100% of the EMPLOYEE guidelines and there is ZERO leeway in most of those especially since universities and other businesses have been dismissing other employees because of policies in those HR/EMPLOYEE rule books for many years specifically to avoid litigation and changing that policy for any group or even all employees again creates opportunities for NUMEROUS wrongful termination and discrimination cases to come forth and trying to say "well they are student athlete employees and thus not subjected to EMPLOYEE conduct policies" goes out the window when they become EMPLOYEES and get compensated

Why would it be a "bad" thing if college athletes were treated like employees and could not get away with the things you mention?

it is not a bad thing from my perspective I would love to see a lot of these fools tossed of college campuses sooner rather than later

but from the perspective of those that claim to "care about the athlete" (which means they care about some idiot that places no value on an education getting paid to make college sports into semi-pro sports) it will be a disaster when they start seeing these fools tossed off of campus left and right

take the FSU QB rape case...if he was an EMPLOYEE when those allegations were made he would have been barred from practicing, barred from playing and possibly even barred from campus until it was fully investigated and it does not matter that "he might miss his senior season and not be able to showcase his talents to go pro"

and some might say "no the university would cover it up like they did already" and my reply is they might be dumb enough to try that, but once it is discovered there was an allegation made and the player/EMPLOYEE was not removed from his JOB until the investigation was complete then all of those janitors, cleaning staff, university administrative staff and on and on that have been placed on paid administrative leave in the past after allegations of any type were made against them and until they were cleared will be coming out of the wood work to sue for workplace discrimination and FSU would be in a world of heart and they would be the example that teaches other universities what it means to have athlete EMPLOYEES

with Harry the janitor no one cares that he might miss the 2013 toilet plunging season and the scouts won't see his toilet plunging skills because he was on paid administrative leave after allegations he was touching on a coworker and saying things to female students......and even if Harry is fully cleared and his coworker is found to have lied and they are fired instead and the student is expelled from school for lying Harry just goes back to work like before.........with an athlete when they are placed on paid administrative leave until an investigation is completed they actually might miss a season or half of a season or the end of a season and that matters to them

or when an athlete EMPLOYEE is playing pickup basketball in the STUDENT Rec center and they do not like a hard foul and they bow up on that regular STUDENT and take a swing at them or push them.......they are not subjected to running steps in practice the next two weeks when the video hits youtube THEY ARE FIRED period the end for assaulting a customer as an EMPLOYEE.....just like if Harry the janitor was filmed taking a swing at a student because the student bumped his janitors cart in the hallway....and if the university tries to cover up their EMPLOYEE taking a swing at a student in the rec center again here comes Jackie Chiles with 300 current and former employees that were placed on paid administrative leave or fired after various incidents involving students

and again from my perspective the more of these idiots that get disciplined and sent packing the better, but it is just these types of "get paid" fools that place no value on education and feel entitled that bow up on students in pickup basketball games, touch all over their academic tutors after being told no, say nasty things to students in class and otherwise make an ass of themselves daily and as soon as they find out there is no more ignoring that, covering that up or having the tutor or student be scared to report it because the might lose their job while the athlete runs some steps and reads a letter someone else wrote saying they are sorry they let the team down the sooner those "get paid" idiots will figure out that being an employee and "getting paid" is a disaster for them and they are getting tossed from campus left and right

and again some school or schools might try and pretend that student athlete employees are different than regular employees, but Jackie Chiles and others are already chomping at the bit and wrangling up dozens if not hundreds of potential plaintiffs from major universities that were former or current employees that were fired and or disciplined after allegations were made against them for the employment discrimination lawsuits to come and once a few of those are won universities will be scared as hell and athlete EMPLOYEES will be under a major microscope

(04-23-2014 09:01 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 08:55 AM)Carolina Stang Wrote:  http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ball-union

"...now seems a good time to imagine a state of college football where all private FBS schools employ unionized players. And the fight was officially bigger than Northwestern. It's potentially about these 17: Baylor, Boston College, BYU, Duke, Miami, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Rice, SMU, Stanford, Syracuse, TCU, Tulane, Tulsa, USC, Vanderbilt and Wake Forest..."

I could see a school like Vanderbilt embracing unionization as a recruiting advantage in the ultra-competitive SEC landcscape. Or for the smaller schools in large recruiting hotbeds like Tulane/SMU.

Food for thought...interesting read.

Pitt, Temple and Penn St. might qualify also as private. They are set up a little differently than most state schools.

No, state-related is for all intents and purposes public.

(04-24-2014 07:58 AM)lew240z Wrote:  It doesn't matter to the IRS whether the players are unionized or not. An NLRB administrator has ruled that players at private schools are employees. Until and unless, a higher NLRB or court rules otherwise, the IRS can tax their scholarships, room and board, provided uniforms, medical benefits, etc.

I have seen all kinds of posts regarding the question of taxability of athletic scholarships. I don't believe that any of them have been made by a CPA or tax attorney familiar with this aspect of the tax code.

I have tried to research the subject on line, but with very unsatisfying results. Opinions seems to be all over the map. If you look only at IRS publications, the answer seems definitive. Only the portion of a scholarship that is used to pay for tuition, books, fees, etc is tax exempt. Expressly taxable are any amounts above that, including room and board, whether or not the athlete lives on campus.

For the athlete who shares an athletic scholarship with another athlete, none of it would be taxable because neither would be receiving an amount more than the educational expenses. For the full ride athlete, though, IRS Publication 970 says they have taxable income.

If you go to the websites of schools that offer athletic scholarships, the Financial Aid section of the site basically says the same thing - room and board are taxable. However, other parts of those schools' sites (see the University of Wisconsin for example) often state explicitly that athletic scholarships are tax-exempt, without the qualification about room and board.

An article published in the Duke Law Journal is even more interesting, IMO. When discussing the question of taxability of scholarships the author offers the caveat that the answer to the question can only be inferred, because there is virtually no case law on point to cite. That's a remarkable assertion, considering how ubiquitous (and lucrative) athletic scholarships are. It suggests sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" approach by the IRS.

If schools are, in fact, correct in stating that the full value of an athletic scholarship is exempt, including amounts paid for room and board (i.e. living expenses), then there is no reason to assume that payments to cover other living expenses (which schools refer to as full cost of attendance) such as a monthly stipend would be taxable either, as long as they don't exceed the amount that non-athletes are estimated to spend for this like laundry, travel (including car use), entertainment and the like. Those schools can rightly point to the fact that they have long recognized these expenditures as being part of the "full cost of attendance" for all students, and aren't creating that notion merely to disguise the nature of payments they would like to make to athletes.

If there are any qualified professionals who can shed light on this subject, their input would be most helpful. For that matter, anybody who can cite a specific IRS publication or ruling saying athletic scholarships are fully exempt would clear up a lot.

The IRS has all the guidelines and regulations they need to tax things. The whole thing is administrative in nature, not legal.

(04-24-2014 04:14 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 10:45 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-24-2014 12:42 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  any school that embraces players unionizing might as well just toss in the towel on athletics and possibly even on staying open as a university

again I have said this before and and will continue to say it......being an EMPLOYEE means just that YOU ARE AN EMPLOYEE......no more making sexual comments to other STUDENTS in class.....no more making sexual comments to your CO WORKER that happens to be your tutor.......no longer making sexual comments to STUDENTS in line at the cafeteria and on and on......you are an EMPLOYEE OF THE UNIVERSITY just like the dorm cleaning staff, the dorm maintenance staff, the professors, the librarians, the financial aid office staff and on and on and NONE of them are allowed to make passes at STUDENTS because no student (and no parent even though the vast majority of students are adults) is going to put up with EMPLOYEES sexually harassing and or making a pass at their student/child/young adult PERIOD

if I had a daughter and she was telling me the cleaning staff or the air conditioner guy was telling her she had a nice ass while fixing something in her room I would be looking to have his ass fired PERIOD.......if I was a female student and people working the lunch line (even if fellow students as well) were saying things to me about how I was dressed or how I looked I would be looking to have their asses FIRED just like if I was at any other business and not expecting to be sexually (or any other way) harassed by the EMPLOYEES

and there is ZERO chance that a university can or will be able to say "well they are not really employees they are student athletes and we just call them employees and give them pay and benefits, but they are not employees" because then legitimate employees will want to be able to say things to the cute girls in the library, the girls in the dorm that they went to fix the AC for or the shower for and on and on and they will want to be able to say things to their cute coworkers in the office pool and on and on and THAT will not be happening as well

you can't have two sets of HR rules for different groups of EMPLOYEES period the end unless you want to end up in numerous lawsuits where you lose lots and lots of money over and over for many reasons

the moment student athletes move from STUDENT athletes to EMPLOYEES is the moment they lose a TON of leeway on how things like dealing with students (real students), faculty, staff and on and on is handled and how things like drug use and even off campus behaviors are handled because as an EMPLOYEE you are going to be subjected to 100% of the EMPLOYEE guidelines and there is ZERO leeway in most of those especially since universities and other businesses have been dismissing other employees because of policies in those HR/EMPLOYEE rule books for many years specifically to avoid litigation and changing that policy for any group or even all employees again creates opportunities for NUMEROUS wrongful termination and discrimination cases to come forth and trying to say "well they are student athlete employees and thus not subjected to EMPLOYEE conduct policies" goes out the window when they become EMPLOYEES and get compensated

Why would it be a "bad" thing if college athletes were treated like employees and could not get away with the things you mention?

it is not a bad thing from my perspective I would love to see a lot of these fools tossed of college campuses sooner rather than later

but from the perspective of those that claim to "care about the athlete" (which means they care about some idiot that places no value on an education getting paid to make college sports into semi-pro sports) it will be a disaster when they start seeing these fools tossed off of campus left and right

take the FSU QB rape case...if he was an EMPLOYEE when those allegations were made he would have been barred from practicing, barred from playing and possibly even barred from campus until it was fully investigated and it does not matter that "he might miss his senior season and not be able to showcase his talents to go pro"

and some might say "no the university would cover it up like they did already" and my reply is they might be dumb enough to try that, but once it is discovered there was an allegation made and the player/EMPLOYEE was not removed from his JOB until the investigation was complete then all of those janitors, cleaning staff, university administrative staff and on and on that have been placed on paid administrative leave in the past after allegations of any type were made against them and until they were cleared will be coming out of the wood work to sue for workplace discrimination and FSU would be in a world of heart and they would be the example that teaches other universities what it means to have athlete EMPLOYEES

with Harry the janitor no one cares that he might miss the 2013 toilet plunging season and the scouts won't see his toilet plunging skills because he was on paid administrative leave after allegations he was touching on a coworker and saying things to female students......and even if Harry is fully cleared and his coworker is found to have lied and they are fired instead and the student is expelled from school for lying Harry just goes back to work like before.........with an athlete when they are placed on paid administrative leave until an investigation is completed they actually might miss a season or half of a season or the end of a season and that matters to them

or when an athlete EMPLOYEE is playing pickup basketball in the STUDENT Rec center and they do not like a hard foul and they bow up on that regular STUDENT and take a swing at them or push them.......they are not subjected to running steps in practice the next two weeks when the video hits youtube THEY ARE FIRED period the end for assaulting a customer as an EMPLOYEE.....just like if Harry the janitor was filmed taking a swing at a student because the student bumped his janitors cart in the hallway....and if the university tries to cover up their EMPLOYEE taking a swing at a student in the rec center again here comes Jackie Chiles with 300 current and former employees that were placed on paid administrative leave or fired after various incidents involving students

and again from my perspective the more of these idiots that get disciplined and sent packing the better, but it is just these types of "get paid" fools that place no value on education and feel entitled that bow up on students in pickup basketball games, touch all over their academic tutors after being told no, say nasty things to students in class and otherwise make an ass of themselves daily and as soon as they find out there is no more ignoring that, covering that up or having the tutor or student be scared to report it because the might lose their job while the athlete runs some steps and reads a letter someone else wrote saying they are sorry they let the team down the sooner those "get paid" idiots will figure out that being an employee and "getting paid" is a disaster for them and they are getting tossed from campus left and right

and again some school or schools might try and pretend that student athlete employees are different than regular employees, but Jackie Chiles and others are already chomping at the bit and wrangling up dozens if not hundreds of potential plaintiffs from major universities that were former or current employees that were fired and or disciplined after allegations were made against them for the employment discrimination lawsuits to come and once a few of those are won universities will be scared as hell and athlete EMPLOYEES will be under a major microscope

Dude, that type of stuff is already non-kosher. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment, whether its committed by a stranger on the street or a co-worker it's still illegal.

And here's a news flash for you: colleges (and high schools) ARE responsible for sexual harassment of students by other students. There have been many successful cases where a school was held responsible for not kicking out students who sexually harass others.

Schools have a helluva time striking the appropriate middle ground, too. Xavier got sued for not kicking someone out three years ago, but they're getting sued again this year because they did kick someone out for this. Oh yeah, the person suing XU was a basketball player who ended up transferring to Maryland.