(04-29-2014 12:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 11:47 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Interesting, only FSU won all 3 of their bowls. Clemson went 2-1. The only other teams with wins are GT (1-2), VT (1-2), UNC (1-1) and NCSU (1-1). Looks like only FSU, Clemson, GT and VT made bowls all 3 years, too.

I don't think the 2013 bowls were proof of anything other than it being a better bowl season than the 2011 one you listed. It's premature to say the ACC's actually getting better as a whole. As you said, it was led by FSU and Clemson and both were better than any top 2 teams from prior years. A bunch of mediocre teams made bowls, and overall the ACC went 5-6 in its games.

In 2005, the first year at 12 teams, the ACC sent 9 to bowls and went 6-3. One of the losses was in 3OT to a top 5 ranked team. So was 2013 that much better (better in BCS no doubt, not as good in non-BCS)? How much has the conference improved if we look at where it's come from since 2005, instead of comparing it to a crappy year in 2011?

That's why I made the small sample comment. You can't look at a snapshot and make assumptions and extrapolations from that small segment.

Yes, FSU has done well in football lately. The Noles last bowl loss was in 2007 - to Kentucky! However, keep in mind that prior to 2012 FSU was 1-5 in BCS bowls, so you guys were accomplices to the ACC's bad football reputation. These last 2 years indicate improvement from FSU!

Pitt and Syracuse made bowls all 3 of those years. Pitt was 1-2 and Syracuse was 3-0, IIRC. I didn't list them for 2011 or 2012, but if you want to go there we certainly can do that, too.

Furthermore, Louisville won the Sugar Bowl and the Russell bowl during this time span - and they will be joining the ACC in a couple of months.

You may be biased - prejudiced even - but there is simply no data you can pull up that contradicts the notion that the ACC, on the whole, is better in football now than it was just 3 years ago.

Mark, SU did not make a bowl in 2011, but is 3-0 in bowls since 2010 after a five year bowl drought before 2010. They made a bowl 3 years out of the last 4 though.

(04-29-2014 01:14 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 12:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 11:47 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Interesting, only FSU won all 3 of their bowls. Clemson went 2-1. The only other teams with wins are GT (1-2), VT (1-2), UNC (1-1) and NCSU (1-1). Looks like only FSU, Clemson, GT and VT made bowls all 3 years, too.

I don't think the 2013 bowls were proof of anything other than it being a better bowl season than the 2011 one you listed. It's premature to say the ACC's actually getting better as a whole. As you said, it was led by FSU and Clemson and both were better than any top 2 teams from prior years. A bunch of mediocre teams made bowls, and overall the ACC went 5-6 in its games.

In 2005, the first year at 12 teams, the ACC sent 9 to bowls and went 6-3. One of the losses was in 3OT to a top 5 ranked team. So was 2013 that much better (better in BCS no doubt, not as good in non-BCS)? How much has the conference improved if we look at where it's come from since 2005, instead of comparing it to a crappy year in 2011?

That's why I made the small sample comment. You can't look at a snapshot and make assumptions and extrapolations from that small segment.

Yes, FSU has done well in football lately. The Noles last bowl loss was in 2007 - to Kentucky! However, keep in mind that prior to 2012 FSU was 1-5 in BCS bowls, so you guys were accomplices to the ACC's bad football reputation. These last 2 years indicate improvement from FSU!

Pitt and Syracuse made bowls all 3 of those years. Pitt was 1-2 and Syracuse was 3-0, IIRC. I didn't list them for 2011 or 2012, but if you want to go there we certainly can do that, too.

Furthermore, Louisville won the Sugar Bowl and the Russell bowl during this time span - and they will be joining the ACC in a couple of months.

You may be biased - prejudiced even - but there is simply no data you can pull up that contradicts the notion that the ACC, on the whole, is better in football now than it was just 3 years ago.

Mark, SU did not make a bowl in 2011, but is 3-0 in bowls since 2010 after a five year bowl drought before 2010. They made a bowl 3 years out of the last 4 though.

My bad!

(04-28-2014 12:37 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 12:27 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 11:53 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-27-2014 08:48 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-27-2014 07:23 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Sounds like something people have been saying for years about if the ACC improves. I guess if we've been waiting 15 years, what's another 15-year wait going to hurt, am I right?

No. FSU won the national title last year. Clemson won the OB. First time the ACC had won 2 major bowls in the same year. 11 overall bowl teams (NCAA record). I'd say that's pretty good improvement.

Six of those eleven teams went into their bowl with either 6 or 7 wins. We won five out of eleven bowls. It's telling when someone thinks mediocrity is improvement.

You may be right, but it is what it is - the ACC had to get to the Mendoza Line first. Can't run without walking. Yada, yada.

"Always hopeful yet discontent... he knows changes are permanent, but CHANGE is." - from Tom Sawyer, by Rush

Not disputing what you are saying because although you from time to time take to your knees and service the ACC with the best of them around here, but when the premise of the post I quoted is that the ACC has arrived because we got 11 teams in bowls then you missed the point.

"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" - Fletcher from The Outlaw Josey Wales

I agree with you that the ACC needs to win against the SEC.

Although you have more SEC salad on your face/posts than most, I really think you have the best interest of the ACC at heart. We do need to beat the SEC teams more often.

(04-29-2014 12:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 11:47 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Interesting, only FSU won all 3 of their bowls. Clemson went 2-1. The only other teams with wins are GT (1-2), VT (1-2), UNC (1-1) and NCSU (1-1). Looks like only FSU, Clemson, GT and VT made bowls all 3 years, too.

I don't think the 2013 bowls were proof of anything other than it being a better bowl season than the 2011 one you listed. It's premature to say the ACC's actually getting better as a whole. As you said, it was led by FSU and Clemson and both were better than any top 2 teams from prior years. A bunch of mediocre teams made bowls, and overall the ACC went 5-6 in its games.

In 2005, the first year at 12 teams, the ACC sent 9 to bowls and went 6-3. One of the losses was in 3OT to a top 5 ranked team. So was 2013 that much better (better in BCS no doubt, not as good in non-BCS)? How much has the conference improved if we look at where it's come from since 2005, instead of comparing it to a crappy year in 2011?

That's why I made the small sample comment. You can't look at a snapshot and make assumptions and extrapolations from that small segment.

Yes, FSU has done well in football lately. The Noles last bowl loss was in 2007 - to Kentucky! However, keep in mind that prior to 2012 FSU was 1-5 in BCS bowls, so you guys were accomplices to the ACC's bad football reputation. These last 2 years indicate improvement from FSU!

Pitt and Syracuse made bowls all 3 of those years. Pitt was 1-2 and Syracuse was 3-0, IIRC. I didn't list them for 2011 or 2012, but if you want to go there we certainly can do that, too.

Furthermore, Louisville won the Sugar Bowl and the Russell bowl during this time span - and they will be joining the ACC in a couple of months.

You may be biased - prejudiced even - but there is simply no data you can pull up that contradicts the notion that the ACC, on the whole, is better in football now than it was just 3 years ago.

That is such a ridiculous comment I literally laughed at it.

Aside from that, I didn't list Pitt and Cuse because they weren't ACC teams all 3 years and you didn't list them either. I never said FSU was guilt-free, that's just some straw man you've come up with to twist the conversation around. One of those losses was the 3 OT loss to Penn State that we should NOT have even played in, but we whooped VT's sorry a** in the ACC CG and stole the slot. Another was when Weinke was out with a broken neck to Tennessee. A third was when Richt accepted the UGA job during bowl prep and his offense looked like trash. There was a 3-point loss to Miami in a rematch at the Orange Bowl - but by your logic that's a tie, right?

I stand by my small sample size comment. I also don't know if the ACC was that much better in its 2013 bowls than the 2005 ones I mentioned. And even if it was, that doesn't prove the conference is actually improving, or has improved.