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Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
6-2, vote.

Majority:

Roberts
Alito
Kennedy
Breyer
Scalia
Thomas

Minority:
Ginsburg
Sotomayor

Abstained: Kagan
04-22-2014 01:42 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 01:38 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:35 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  If Americans were capable of doing that, there would be no need for a law like Affirmative Action.

Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Quota's and point systems aim at outcome, not opportunity... So you are mistaken..

Regardless, if Americans were capable of hiring people based on their education, experience, and ability, there would be no need for the law.

Americans are not capable of hiring people based on their education, experience, and ability so we need laws to prevent people from hiring only on education, experience, and ability...

Sound funny to anyone else?
04-22-2014 01:46 PM
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Fitbud Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 01:46 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:38 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:35 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Quota's and point systems aim at outcome, not opportunity... So you are mistaken..

Regardless, if Americans were capable of hiring people based on their education, experience, and ability, there would be no need for the law.

Americans are not capable of hiring people based on their education, experience, and ability so we need laws to prevent people from hiring only on education, experience, and ability...

Sound funny to anyone else?

Chicken before the egg my friend.
04-22-2014 01:47 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 01:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:39 PM)Hitch Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:35 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Quota's and point systems aim at outcome, not opportunity... So you are mistaken..

I think the goal was equal access to opportunities but successful people know that opportunities are outcomes.

That is what I meant but Bull wants to play a game of splitting hairs.

huh? As someone who went to inner city schools which were more minority than white I can say that my classmates had every opportunity that I did... Same teachers, same homework, same bus, same everything...

Yet time and time again I hear how I have had more opportunity in life.
04-22-2014 01:48 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 01:46 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:38 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:35 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Quota's and point systems aim at outcome, not opportunity... So you are mistaken..

Regardless, if Americans were capable of hiring people based on their education, experience, and ability, there would be no need for the law.

Americans are not capable of hiring people based on their education, experience, and ability so we need laws to prevent people from hiring only on education, experience, and ability...

Sound funny to anyone else?

Only when you say it like that. 03-wink
04-22-2014 01:49 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
I like it, but it's not going to stop people from thinking it's still in effect and complaining when they or someone they know gets turned down for something.
04-22-2014 01:50 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 01:47 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:46 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:38 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:35 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Quota's and point systems aim at outcome, not opportunity... So you are mistaken..

Regardless, if Americans were capable of hiring people based on their education, experience, and ability, there would be no need for the law.

Americans are not capable of hiring people based on their education, experience, and ability so we need laws to prevent people from hiring only on education, experience, and ability...

Sound funny to anyone else?

Chicken before the egg my friend.

And this demonstrates the faulty premise with AA... The "chicken and the egg" is a causality dilemma. To use that philosophical paradox to justify AA shows that you will never "not need it" or never "solve the problem"....

You don't fix equality of opportunity problems by creating equality of opportunity problems.
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2014 01:52 PM by Bull_In_Exile.)
04-22-2014 01:51 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 10:40 AM)gdunn Wrote:  I'm waiting for someone to say it's racist and we don't want brown people to get educated.

The NY Times titles their article on this as "Racial equality loses at the Court." Is racial equality is lost, then that's racism, right?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/opinio...inion&_r=0
04-22-2014 09:53 PM
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maximus Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
As one who has previously served on a large universities selection committee for admitting applicants... this a is huge victory. We had to meet quotas and look over more qualified people all of the time. It was sad to say the least

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04-22-2014 09:59 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 10:00 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  There will be multiple undercover operations to out those admission officers who use race as a deciding factor.
I suspect that will prove much easier said than done. But I wish best of luck to anyone that tries.
04-22-2014 10:09 PM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 10:09 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 10:00 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  There will be multiple undercover operations to out those admission officers who use race as a deciding factor.
I suspect that will prove much easier said than done. But I wish best of luck to anyone that tries.

You can bet your sweet ass groups like Project Veritas and Breitbart groups alike will be all over it. There will be whistle blowers and ex employees that will spill the beans. One place to look will be the University of Texas where they hired a Berkeley liberal as their President who has fought hard to keep affirmative action in place.
04-22-2014 10:14 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 10:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You can bet your sweet ass groups like Project Veritas and Breitbart groups alike will be all over it.
There are some resourceful people out there, I am glad to admit that. But the college-admissions process is only slightly less secretive than a papal conclave. And the secrecy is directly related to the ongoing effort to impose various demographic quotas on the student body, in the face of contrary judicial opinions like the one that came down today. So it will be a challenge.

Quote:There will be whistle blowers and ex employees that will spill the beans. One place to look will be the University of Texas where they hired a Berkeley liberal as their President who has fought hard to keep affirmative action in place.
19 years of Republican control in Texas and they haven't made the slightest dent in the leftwing hegemony at UT. Just disgraceful.
04-22-2014 10:27 PM
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EagleX Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 01:42 PM)Smaug Wrote:  6-2, vote.

Majority:

Roberts
Alito
Kennedy
Breyer
Scalia
Thomas

Minority:
Ginsburg
Sotomayor

Abstained: Kagan

The wise Latina blew a gasket and smeared poo on the walls of the court chambers. these decisions should be made by judges, by God, from on high. Not voters. What the hell do we think this is, democracy?
04-22-2014 10:42 PM
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EagleX Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 01:28 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:04 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 09:52 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Good news for anyone who wishes to live in a society where skin-color and ethnic-ancestry does not define a person's educational/social opportunities.

If Americans were capable of doing that, there would be no need for a law like Affirmative Action.

Right because equality of opportunity always equals equality of outcomes....

I disagree. Equality of opportunity almost never equals equality of outcome.

Unless I am mistaken, Affirmative Action only sought out to accomplish equality of opportunity.

Affirmative action is actual, institutionalized, government enforced racial descrimination designed to "correct" alleged previous racial descrimination. my question is, how much of the latter is required to "correct" the former? 100 years? 500? 1000? Who decides when it's "fixed"? Judges? Judges like that drooling whack job sotomayer? do we continue "discriminating in favor" of a black lesbian womon for three times as long as a mere minority male because she is a three-fer? And who decides THAT? Pissed off twofer judges like sotomayer and kagan?

the answer is that it will NEVER be enough. They will NEVER be finished. Reformers NEVER reform themselves out of a job. Affirmative action is an endless suckhole of illogic.
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2014 11:06 PM by EagleX.)
04-22-2014 10:50 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 10:42 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 01:42 PM)Smaug Wrote:  6-2, vote.

Majority:

Roberts
Alito
Kennedy
Breyer
Scalia
Thomas

Minority:
Ginsburg
Sotomayor

Abstained: Kagan

The wise Latina blew a gasket and smeared poo on the walls of the court chambers. these decisions should be made by judges, by God, from on high. Not voters. What the hell do we think this is, democracy?

It's shocking absolutely shocking, that a Supreme Court justice can spew 58 pages of dissenting opinion that justifies racial discrimination. She could probably argue that eliminating slavery discriminated against white farmers.

Anyway, she has shown her true colors, she's a racist.
04-22-2014 10:53 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
Sotomayor lost her **** over this. That dissent was long as hell.

Of course she is upset over it, she's been a product of those programs.
04-23-2014 08:47 AM
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Hitch Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-23-2014 08:47 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Sotomayor lost her **** over this. That dissent was long as hell.

Of course she is upset over it, she's been a product of those programs.

Sotomayor was valedictorian of her high school and graduated from Princeton summa *** laude and Phi Beta Kappa. It's a stretch to say she wasn't a well qualified applicant for college or law school.
04-23-2014 08:56 AM
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oklalittledixie Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-22-2014 10:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(04-22-2014 10:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You can bet your sweet ass groups like Project Veritas and Breitbart groups alike will be all over it.
There are some resourceful people out there, I am glad to admit that. But the college-admissions process is only slightly less secretive than a papal conclave. And the secrecy is directly related to the ongoing effort to impose various demographic quotas on the student body, in the face of contrary judicial opinions like the one that came down today. So it will be a challenge.

Quote:There will be whistle blowers and ex employees that will spill the beans. One place to look will be the University of Texas where they hired a Berkeley liberal as their President who has fought hard to keep affirmative action in place.
19 years of Republican control in Texas and they haven't made the slightest dent in the leftwing hegemony at UT. Just disgraceful.

I don't think they've tried hard enough. For one, they are in denial that hiring that clown has caused problems that have reverberated all the way down to the athletic programs.

Texas has a California problem and they better wise up to to.
04-23-2014 09:06 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
Austin is also a liberal cesspool.
04-23-2014 09:07 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Justices approve state bans on affirmative action
(04-23-2014 08:56 AM)Hitch Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 08:47 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Sotomayor lost her **** over this. That dissent was long as hell.

Of course she is upset over it, she's been a product of those programs.

Sotomayor was valedictorian of her high school and graduated from Princeton summa *** laude and Phi Beta Kappa. It's a stretch to say she wasn't a well qualified applicant for college or law school.

So a Latina *can* make it to the supreme court without the benefit of AA...

Ok we don't need it any more..
04-23-2014 09:19 AM
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