The Best Option for SBC football is to go ahead and invite:

1. Missouri State - start playing in 2016
2. Texas Arlington (restart fully) - start playing in 2018
3. Florida Gulf Coast - start playing in 2018 (they have support)
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/...-football/

Place these schools in a hold pattern for possible expansion to 16 after 2020

4. Coastal Carolina (nice rivalry for Ga Southern)
5. Eastern Kentucky (nice fit in the footprint, nice rivalry with App State)

Then

6. Kennesaw State (nice replacement if USA or Ga State go to CUSA)
7. North Florida ( will be the last universty in florida without football after FGCU, will be ready to join FGCU)
8. Lamar (long shot but will be nice Texas Triange with Texas State, Texas Arlington....aka the Texas Three or the Three Amigos )

(04-21-2014 04:31 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  The Best Option for SBC football is to go ahead and invite:

1. Missouri State - start playing in 2016
2. Texas Arlington (restart fully) - start playing in 2018
3. Florida Gulf Coast - start playing in 2018 (they have support)
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/...-football/

Place these schools in a hold pattern for possible expansion to 16 after 2020

4. Coastal Carolina (nice rivalry for Ga Southern)
5. Eastern Kentucky (nice fit in the footprint, nice rivalry with App State)

Then

6. Kennesaw State (nice replacement if USA or Ga State go to CUSA)
7. North Florida ( will be the last universty in florida without football after FGCU, will be ready to join FGCU)
8. Lamar (long shot but will be nice Texas Triange with Texas State, Texas Arlington....aka the Texas Three or the Three Amigos )

Mo State not ready now. Question is if ever.

UTA is not very likely to restart

FGCU has investigated the possibility of football and determined they lack the resources to start from scratch.

CC needs to more than double their facility size.

EKU is "OK" on facilities but their own numbers indicate a need to increase the annual operating budget by $2.5 million. That's roughly a 25% increase, hard to do quickly.

Kennesaw isn't likely to be supported by the other Georgia schools and needs a serious stadium upgrade.

UNF doesn't sponsor football.

Lamar needs facility improvements as well just to be viable.

The only viable option on that list is EKU. It's down to Liberty, EKU, or stay at 11.

Now, I'm not a fan of a Sun Belt team --- and have basically no "affiliation" with the league at all --- so consider that as the background to the next statement I'm going to make.


UGH!


Here's how I as an "outsider" see the Sun Belt: a conference that has made slow but steady improvement over the last decade+, establishing its place fairly well within the FBS world. It's been a tough road to improvement, but the Sun Belt and its current membership deserves kudos for the progress of the last 13 years.

A number of schools have moved on, but the current membership is pretty strong:

(1) Arkansas State, ULL and Troy are good on a year-in, year-out basis. All would easily compete at the "next" (C-USA) level if they ever got the invite (like past Sun Belt schools).

(2) App State, Georgia Southern and Texas State have all been very successful recently at the D-1AA level, and are well-positioned to be competitive within the Sun Belt.

(3) South Alabama has a long history in the Sun Belt outside of football, is in a good locale, and deserved their addition upon starting football. I have little doubt they will be a strong Sun Belt football school.

(4) Idaho, Louisiana-Monroe and New Mexico State are what they are --- they each have pretty significant obstacles to overcome to achieve long-term success. But at least they've played FBS football for multiple decades.

(5) Georgia State has to start proving something. I'm worried they're going to be a long-term "dog."

******************

If you want to start adding schools, you want to keep the momentum of the last 13 years going. That requires schools that will/have the potential to fit into categories (1), (2) and (3). You don't want (4) and (5). Frankly, on your list, outside of UTA and possibly EKU, NO school fits the first 3 categories.

The Sun Belt could do better.

Invite EKU for they are right in the middle of the conference as it is now ir close to it. They would be basically replacing Westrrn who is moving to CUSA this year as most of the league was use to traveling to Kentucky accept the newest members to the SBC. I think they would be a perfect fit who shouldn't have to much of a problem stepping up in competition IMO.

Liberty has $1 billion in cash and is looking to spend a chunk on FBS. They would be the best program in terms of strengthening the SBC. All of the other options would pose no threat to CUSA or the MAC in terms of helping the conference move from being on the bottom in the pecking order.

(04-21-2014 06:28 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The only viable option on that list is EKU. It's down to Liberty, EKU, or stay at 11.

Honestly, their best option is a UMass football-only invite with a renewable agreement just like they gave Idaho. Make it a 6 year deal so its more attractive than staying in the MAC the next 2 years. In 6 years--it will be time to again look at all the options. By then, perhaps UMass is a much better long term option than they currently appear to be. In 2020, maybe JMU will have had enough of FCS football. Maybe one of the others on the list has made a real commitment to move up and is a much better option than they are today. Basically, UMass buys the Sunbelt a CCG and 6 full seasons to let other options ferment.

(04-21-2014 07:26 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  Invite EKU for they are right in the middle of the conference as it is now ir close to it. They would be basically replacing Westrrn who is moving to CUSA this year as most of the league was use to traveling to Kentucky accept the newest members to the SBC. I think they would be a perfect fit who shouldn't have to much of a problem stepping up in competition IMO.

The difference between EKU & WKU is glaring. EKU is not a FBS campus. If that is the best option pity the conference. How could you take a conference serious that has to pick from the list of names mentioned.

(04-21-2014 08:44 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 07:26 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  Invite EKU for they are right in the middle of the conference as it is now ir close to it. They would be basically replacing Westrrn who is moving to CUSA this year as most of the league was use to traveling to Kentucky accept the newest members to the SBC. I think they would be a perfect fit who shouldn't have to much of a problem stepping up in competition IMO.

The difference between EKU & WKU is glaring. EKU is not a FBS campus. If that is the best option pity the conference. How could you take a conference serious that has to pick from the list of names mentioned.

You do realize the Sun Belt was the highest ranked G5 conference in football, right? That is why you take them serious. Plus they are adding two of the most successful programs in all of football, with Ga Southern beating Florida in the swamp to wrap up FCS.

(04-21-2014 08:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 06:28 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The only viable option on that list is EKU. It's down to Liberty, EKU, or stay at 11.

Honestly, their best option is a UMass football-only invite with a renewable agreement just like they gave Idaho. Make it a 6 year deal so its more attractive than staying in the MAC the next 2 years. In 6 years--it will be time to again look at all the options. By then, perhaps UMass is a much better long term option than they currently appear to be. In 2020, maybe JMU will have had enough of FCS football. Maybe one of the others on the list has made a real commitment to move up and is a much better option than they are today. Basically, UMass buys the Sunbelt a CCG and 6 full seasons to let other options ferment.

The Sun Belt is not going to invite UMASS. The Sun Belt wants to move to all sports members in all the major sports. UMASS made there decision when they decided not to join the MAC in all sports.

As far as a CCG the Sun Belt can have one at the end of the 2015 season by adding a football member before June 1.

Adding UMASS does nothing for the Sun Belt. Now some Sun Belt teams will be glad to schedule UMASS in Football after they become an Independent, that is if they do not drop back down to FCS.

I've always thought Coastal would be a great Sun Belt add...the State of SC has only 2 FBS schools and Coastal could be a third. It is also the only real school in the Myrtle Beach/Florence market....and with UNCW not having football, it can easily tap into southeastern NC for talent. It would also bridge the gap between App State and Ga Southern. Their football stadium is fairly new and is expandable.

(04-21-2014 09:34 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I've always thought Coastal would be a great Sun Belt add...the State of SC has only 2 FBS schools and Coastal could be a third. It is also the only real school in the Myrtle Beach/Florence market....and with UNCW not having football, it can easily tap into southeastern NC for talent. It would also bridge the gap between App State and Ga Southern. Their football stadium is fairly new and is expandable.

While facilities are just one consideration, Coastal's are a comparative liability. The football stadium only seats about 9,100. Although it was designed to be expandable to 20,000, that's less than the current capacity of EKU's stadium which seats 22,000. And with almost all of EKU's stands on one side of the field, it would be fairly easy for EKU to push capacity up to 30,000 by building on the opposite sideline. Also Coastal's basketball arena only seats 3,370 compared to EKU's arena which seats 6,500.

I just noticed Liberty is on VT's upcoming schedule a couple of times, so I'm rooting for Liberty to the Sunbelt so they'll at least be FBS.

(04-21-2014 09:17 PM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 08:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 06:28 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  The only viable option on that list is EKU. It's down to Liberty, EKU, or stay at 11.

Honestly, their best option is a UMass football-only invite with a renewable agreement just like they gave Idaho. Make it a 6 year deal so its more attractive than staying in the MAC the next 2 years. In 6 years--it will be time to again look at all the options. By then, perhaps UMass is a much better long term option than they currently appear to be. In 2020, maybe JMU will have had enough of FCS football. Maybe one of the others on the list has made a real commitment to move up and is a much better option than they are today. Basically, UMass buys the Sunbelt a CCG and 6 full seasons to let other options ferment.

The Sun Belt is not going to invite UMASS. The Sun Belt wants to move to all sports members in all the major sports. UMASS made there decision when they decided not to join the MAC in all sports.

As far as a CCG the Sun Belt can have one at the end of the 2015 season by adding a football member before June 1.

Adding UMASS does nothing for the Sun Belt. Now some Sun Belt teams will be glad to schedule UMASS in Football after they become an Independent, that is if they do not drop back down to FCS.

UMass football only wouldn't be so bad and it would buy time. Its either the minutemen or take Liberty. Given that choice I'd rather take UMass for a few years.

(04-22-2014 12:51 AM)TStatebobcat Wrote:  UMass football only wouldn't be so bad and it would buy time. Its either the minutemen or take Liberty. Given that choice I'd rather take UMass for a few years.

One advantage of UMass is that the decision wouldn't have to be made right away ... there would be time to wait and see what is actually passed regarding the CCG, and if 12 is still a requirement, then sometime before the MAC does their 2015/16 FB schedule let UMass and the MAC know that UMass is wanted for the 2015/16 season.

If the affiliation fee was set at half the CFP payment, then UMass would have $250K left over after paying their exit fee in 2015/16, and $500K as the part of the CPF payment that the Sunbelt passed on for the balance of the affiliation arrangement, and the Sunbelt's $500K share could go into some mix of per-school payout and travel subsidy as the full members saw fit.

the best option for The Sunbelt is to stop listening to foolishness that claims they have to be at 12-16-20-24 universities or that a collection of schools that will be perennial bottom feeders in D1-A in "markets" that don't exist because no one in those markets cares about those schools (which is why they are not D1-A already) somehow adds up to something meaningful

The Sunbelt will never be the SEC and beating a whole ton of crap in a massive conference and then pitting two 7-5 teams against each other for a "championship" (of something no one cares about) is meaningless and will not get anyone paid for anything anytime ever

the only way the Sunbelt will get ANY respect ever is if the actually have teams that go out into OOC games and beat other teams and the better the other teams they beat are the more respect

loading up on underfunded crap in over-saturated markets that will never compete will gain no respect and only serve to slice up revenues in an ever smaller portion to all in the conference

when the big boys are killing you and firmly entrenched in their position at the top of the food chain and they have vast resources and fan support and history to draw upon to stay in that position it is the height of ignorance to think that imitating them will somehow elevate you to anywhere close to their status

the best thing The Sunbelt could have done is added MNSU and Idaho like they are now and stayed right where they were after that and told appy state (hot hot hot) thanks, but no thanks along with the GSU sisters and everyone else and then play fewer conference games and more OOC games and go from there

(04-21-2014 04:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 04:31 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  The Best Option for SBC football is to go ahead and invite:

1. Missouri State - start playing in 2016
2. Texas Arlington (restart fully) - start playing in 2018
3. Florida Gulf Coast - start playing in 2018 (they have support)
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/...-football/

Place these schools in a hold pattern for possible expansion to 16 after 2020

4. Coastal Carolina (nice rivalry for Ga Southern)
5. Eastern Kentucky (nice fit in the footprint, nice rivalry with App State)

Then

6. Kennesaw State (nice replacement if USA or Ga State go to CUSA)
7. North Florida ( will be the last universty in florida without football after FGCU, will be ready to join FGCU)
8. Lamar (long shot but will be nice Texas Triange with Texas State, Texas Arlington....aka the Texas Three or the Three Amigos )

Mo State not ready now. Question is if ever.

UTA is not very likely to restart

FGCU has investigated the possibility of football and determined they lack the resources to start from scratch.

CC needs to more than double their facility size.

EKU is "OK" on facilities but their own numbers indicate a need to increase the annual operating budget by $2.5 million. That's roughly a 25% increase, hard to do quickly.

Kennesaw isn't likely to be supported by the other Georgia schools and needs a serious stadium upgrade.

UNF doesn't sponsor football.

Lamar needs facility improvements as well just to be viable.

Mo State not ready now. Question is if ever.
MSU should be ready in two years -2016

UTA is not very likely to restart
This is Texas you are talking about

FGCU has investigated the possibility of football and determined they lack the resources to start from scratch.
FGCU does not lack the resources, they intend to go straight to FBS like USF

CC needs to more than double their facility size.
They can do it by 2020

EKU is "OK" on facilities but their own numbers indicate a need to increase the annual operating budget by $2.5 million. That's roughly a 25% increase, hard to do quickly.

Not hard to do it by 2020

Kennesaw isn't likely to be supported by the other Georgia schools and needs a serious stadium upgrade.

KSU would have instant rivalries against Ga Southern, Ga State, and App State plus OOC against UAB, Charlotte, WKU, MTSU and maybe Memphis. KSU is in the catbird seat.... Atlanta metro. Except for Ga State, the other school would like the exposure in the ATL.

UNF doesn't sponsor football.
It will, when FGCU starts football, UNF will be the only State University without football. Their students (16,372) and alumni will demand football. UF is blocking them at the moment. Just compare UNF to USA. Look for UNF football by 2020

Lamar needs facility improvements as well just to be viable.
LU problem is that is east Texas between Houston and Louisiana. There are a bunch of schools already in the area. They have the size for a Sun Belt school.

(04-21-2014 07:39 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  Liberty has $1 billion in cash and is looking to spend a chunk on FBS. They would be the best program in terms of strengthening the SBC. All of the other options would pose no threat to CUSA or the MAC in terms of helping the conference move from being on the bottom in the pecking order.

No one is going to help them move up the pecking order. The Mac while not real strong, is the most stable G5 out there. CUSA can cherry pick Belt anytime it wishes to. The Pecking order is set for the foreseeable future.

If I were in charge of the Sun Belt, I'd throw a football-only lifeline to UMass for a set number of years (2, 4, whatever) and then re-evaluate the landscape when that ends. I'd structure it so that UMass must play 4-6 basketball games vs Sun Belt opponents, 50% on the road, too.

I would definitely NOT go above 12 teams, because all these schools that are new to FBS need time to develop.

EAST
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Massachusetts
South Alabama
Troy

WEST
Arkansas State
Idaho
New Mexico State
Texas State
UL Lafayette
ULM

(04-22-2014 08:13 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 04:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 04:31 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  The Best Option for SBC football is to go ahead and invite:

1. Missouri State - start playing in 2016
2. Texas Arlington (restart fully) - start playing in 2018
3. Florida Gulf Coast - start playing in 2018 (they have support)
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/...-football/

Place these schools in a hold pattern for possible expansion to 16 after 2020

4. Coastal Carolina (nice rivalry for Ga Southern)
5. Eastern Kentucky (nice fit in the footprint, nice rivalry with App State)

Then

6. Kennesaw State (nice replacement if USA or Ga State go to CUSA)
7. North Florida ( will be the last universty in florida without football after FGCU, will be ready to join FGCU)
8. Lamar (long shot but will be nice Texas Triange with Texas State, Texas Arlington....aka the Texas Three or the Three Amigos )

Mo State not ready now. Question is if ever.

UTA is not very likely to restart

FGCU has investigated the possibility of football and determined they lack the resources to start from scratch.

CC needs to more than double their facility size.

EKU is "OK" on facilities but their own numbers indicate a need to increase the annual operating budget by $2.5 million. That's roughly a 25% increase, hard to do quickly.

Kennesaw isn't likely to be supported by the other Georgia schools and needs a serious stadium upgrade.

UNF doesn't sponsor football.

Lamar needs facility improvements as well just to be viable.

Mo State not ready now. Question is if ever.
MSU should be ready in two years -2016

UTA is not very likely to restart
This is Texas you are talking about

FGCU has investigated the possibility of football and determined they lack the resources to start from scratch.
FGCU does not lack the resources, they intend to go straight to FBS like USF

CC needs to more than double their facility size.
They can do it by 2020

EKU is "OK" on facilities but their own numbers indicate a need to increase the annual operating budget by $2.5 million. That's roughly a 25% increase, hard to do quickly.

Not hard to do it by 2020

Kennesaw isn't likely to be supported by the other Georgia schools and needs a serious stadium upgrade.

KSU would have instant rivalries against Ga Southern, Ga State, and App State plus OOC against UAB, Charlotte, WKU, MTSU and maybe Memphis. KSU is in the catbird seat.... Atlanta metro. Except for Ga State, the other school would like the exposure in the ATL.

UNF doesn't sponsor football.
It will, when FGCU starts football, UNF will be the only State University without football. Their students (16,372) and alumni will demand football. UF is blocking them at the moment. Just compare UNF to USA. Look for UNF football by 2020

Lamar needs facility improvements as well just to be viable.
LU problem is that is east Texas between Houston and Louisiana. There are a bunch of schools already in the area. They have the size for a Sun Belt school.

School enrollment comparisons between the SBC and SBC potentials ( I believe these are Fall 2012 numbers)

Texas Arlington 34,249
Texas State 34,229
Georgia State 32,087
Kennesaw State 24,600
Missouri State 21,059
Georgia Southern 20,584
New Mexico State 18,497
Troy 17,915
Appalachian State 17,589
Louisiana - Lafayette 16,885
North Florida 16,372
Eastern Kentucky 15,968
South Alabama 15,311
Lamar 14,288
Florida Gulf Coast 14,099
Arkansas State 13,553
Arkansas - Little Rock 13,000
Idaho 11,180
Coastal Carolina 9,478
Louisiana - Monroe 7,519

I believe the SBC potentials have the same financial abilities as the present school. Notice the enrollments of the recent additions, Texas State, UTA, Ga State, Georgia Southern and App State are much higher than the older members.