FloridaJag, of the schools you list, Missouri State seems to be the best IMO, but I still wouldn't want to add anyone until the other new FBS schools already in the SBC have time to develop.

Is there any interest among Sun Belt fans in adding NMSU in all sports? Their basketball and baseball are better than their football, but I get that they are outside the all-sports footprint by a good distance.

(04-22-2014 09:00 AM)Chappy Wrote:  FloridaJag, of the schools you list, Missouri State seems to be the best IMO, but I still wouldn't want to add anyone until the other new FBS schools already in the SBC have time to develop.

Is there any interest among Sun Belt fans in adding NMSU in all sports? Their basketball and baseball are better than their football, but I get that they are outside the all-sports footprint by a good distance.

Western schools are pro-NMSU, eastern not so much.

(04-21-2014 07:23 PM)NittanyLion Wrote:  Now, I'm not a fan of a Sun Belt team --- and have basically no "affiliation" with the league at all --- so consider that as the background to the next statement I'm going to make.


UGH!


Here's how I as an "outsider" see the Sun Belt: a conference that has made slow but steady improvement over the last decade+, establishing its place fairly well within the FBS world. It's been a tough road to improvement, but the Sun Belt and its current membership deserves kudos for the progress of the last 13 years.

A number of schools have moved on, but the current membership is pretty strong:

(1) Arkansas State, ULL and Troy are good on a year-in, year-out basis. All would easily compete at the "next" (C-USA) level if they ever got the invite (like past Sun Belt schools).

(2) App State, Georgia Southern and Texas State have all been very successful recently at the D-1AA level, and are well-positioned to be competitive within the Sun Belt.

(3) South Alabama has a long history in the Sun Belt outside of football, is in a good locale, and deserved their addition upon starting football. I have little doubt they will be a strong Sun Belt football school.

(4) Idaho, Louisiana-Monroe and New Mexico State are what they are --- they each have pretty significant obstacles to overcome to achieve long-term success. But at least they've played FBS football for multiple decades.

(5) Georgia State has to start proving something. I'm worried they're going to be a long-term "dog."

******************

If you want to start adding schools, you want to keep the momentum of the last 13 years going. That requires schools that will/have the potential to fit into categories (1), (2) and (3). You don't want (4) and (5). Frankly, on your list, outside of UTA and possibly EKU, NO school fits the first 3 categories.

The Sun Belt could do better.

Who is better?

(04-22-2014 08:46 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 08:13 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 04:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 04:31 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  The Best Option for SBC football is to go ahead and invite:

1. Missouri State - start playing in 2016
2. Texas Arlington (restart fully) - start playing in 2018
3. Florida Gulf Coast - start playing in 2018 (they have support)
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/...-football/

Place these schools in a hold pattern for possible expansion to 16 after 2020

4. Coastal Carolina (nice rivalry for Ga Southern)
5. Eastern Kentucky (nice fit in the footprint, nice rivalry with App State)

Then

6. Kennesaw State (nice replacement if USA or Ga State go to CUSA)
7. North Florida ( will be the last universty in florida without football after FGCU, will be ready to join FGCU)
8. Lamar (long shot but will be nice Texas Triange with Texas State, Texas Arlington....aka the Texas Three or the Three Amigos )

Mo State not ready now. Question is if ever.

UTA is not very likely to restart

FGCU has investigated the possibility of football and determined they lack the resources to start from scratch.

CC needs to more than double their facility size.

EKU is "OK" on facilities but their own numbers indicate a need to increase the annual operating budget by $2.5 million. That's roughly a 25% increase, hard to do quickly.

Kennesaw isn't likely to be supported by the other Georgia schools and needs a serious stadium upgrade.

UNF doesn't sponsor football.

Lamar needs facility improvements as well just to be viable.

Mo State not ready now. Question is if ever.
MSU should be ready in two years -2016

UTA is not very likely to restart
This is Texas you are talking about

FGCU has investigated the possibility of football and determined they lack the resources to start from scratch.
FGCU does not lack the resources, they intend to go straight to FBS like USF

CC needs to more than double their facility size.
They can do it by 2020

EKU is "OK" on facilities but their own numbers indicate a need to increase the annual operating budget by $2.5 million. That's roughly a 25% increase, hard to do quickly.

Not hard to do it by 2020

Kennesaw isn't likely to be supported by the other Georgia schools and needs a serious stadium upgrade.

KSU would have instant rivalries against Ga Southern, Ga State, and App State plus OOC against UAB, Charlotte, WKU, MTSU and maybe Memphis. KSU is in the catbird seat.... Atlanta metro. Except for Ga State, the other school would like the exposure in the ATL.

UNF doesn't sponsor football.
It will, when FGCU starts football, UNF will be the only State University without football. Their students (16,372) and alumni will demand football. UF is blocking them at the moment. Just compare UNF to USA. Look for UNF football by 2020

Lamar needs facility improvements as well just to be viable.
LU problem is that is east Texas between Houston and Louisiana. There are a bunch of schools already in the area. They have the size for a Sun Belt school.

School enrollment comparisons between the SBC and SBC potentials ( I believe these are Fall 2012 numbers)

Texas Arlington 34,249
Texas State 34,229
Georgia State 32,087
Kennesaw State 24,600
Missouri State 21,059
Georgia Southern 20,584
New Mexico State 18,497
Troy 17,915
Appalachian State 17,589
Louisiana - Lafayette 16,885
North Florida 16,372
Eastern Kentucky 15,968
South Alabama 15,311
Lamar 14,288
Florida Gulf Coast 14,099
Arkansas State 13,553
Arkansas - Little Rock 13,000
Idaho 11,180
Coastal Carolina 9,478
Louisiana - Monroe 7,519

I believe the SBC potentials have the same financial abilities as the present school. Notice the enrollments of the recent additions, Texas State, UTA, Ga State, Georgia Southern and App State are much higher than the older members.

An here is where wishful thinking comes in. Georgia State hit 23k students in the late 1970's. Were we ready for FBS based upon enrollment? No. There was no institutional support either internally nor from the BOR for major college athletics. Most of the schools you name have not shown an FBS pulse. The schools who did show a pulse 4 to 6 years ago have largely moved up. Who remains? Missouri State, JMU, Liberty, Jacksonville State. Going out 4 years maybe you add EKU to that list. After that there really isnt anyone regionally showing the "want to" to increase their athletic budget anywhere from 50% to 100% and spend an additional $50M on facilities. That is the reality at this point. Kennesaw State has some serious issues to address to become even viable at the FCS level. Teir athletic support level is basically the same as Georgia State's was in the early 1990's and they dont have 125k local alumni to get $$$ from.

Northern Arizona University if the SBC is open to solidifying and stabilizing its Western presence.

(04-22-2014 10:45 AM)panama Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 08:46 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 08:13 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 04:41 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 04:31 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  The Best Option for SBC football is to go ahead and invite:

1. Missouri State - start playing in 2016
2. Texas Arlington (restart fully) - start playing in 2018
3. Florida Gulf Coast - start playing in 2018 (they have support)
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/...-football/

Place these schools in a hold pattern for possible expansion to 16 after 2020

4. Coastal Carolina (nice rivalry for Ga Southern)
5. Eastern Kentucky (nice fit in the footprint, nice rivalry with App State)

Then

6. Kennesaw State (nice replacement if USA or Ga State go to CUSA)
7. North Florida ( will be the last universty in florida without football after FGCU, will be ready to join FGCU)
8. Lamar (long shot but will be nice Texas Triange with Texas State, Texas Arlington....aka the Texas Three or the Three Amigos )

Mo State not ready now. Question is if ever.

UTA is not very likely to restart

FGCU has investigated the possibility of football and determined they lack the resources to start from scratch.

CC needs to more than double their facility size.

EKU is "OK" on facilities but their own numbers indicate a need to increase the annual operating budget by $2.5 million. That's roughly a 25% increase, hard to do quickly.

Kennesaw isn't likely to be supported by the other Georgia schools and needs a serious stadium upgrade.

UNF doesn't sponsor football.

Lamar needs facility improvements as well just to be viable.

Mo State not ready now. Question is if ever.
MSU should be ready in two years -2016

UTA is not very likely to restart
This is Texas you are talking about

FGCU has investigated the possibility of football and determined they lack the resources to start from scratch.
FGCU does not lack the resources, they intend to go straight to FBS like USF

CC needs to more than double their facility size.
They can do it by 2020

EKU is "OK" on facilities but their own numbers indicate a need to increase the annual operating budget by $2.5 million. That's roughly a 25% increase, hard to do quickly.

Not hard to do it by 2020

Kennesaw isn't likely to be supported by the other Georgia schools and needs a serious stadium upgrade.

KSU would have instant rivalries against Ga Southern, Ga State, and App State plus OOC against UAB, Charlotte, WKU, MTSU and maybe Memphis. KSU is in the catbird seat.... Atlanta metro. Except for Ga State, the other school would like the exposure in the ATL.

UNF doesn't sponsor football.
It will, when FGCU starts football, UNF will be the only State University without football. Their students (16,372) and alumni will demand football. UF is blocking them at the moment. Just compare UNF to USA. Look for UNF football by 2020

Lamar needs facility improvements as well just to be viable.
LU problem is that is east Texas between Houston and Louisiana. There are a bunch of schools already in the area. They have the size for a Sun Belt school.

School enrollment comparisons between the SBC and SBC potentials ( I believe these are Fall 2012 numbers)

Texas Arlington 34,249
Texas State 34,229
Georgia State 32,087
Kennesaw State 24,600
Missouri State 21,059
Georgia Southern 20,584
New Mexico State 18,497
Troy 17,915
Appalachian State 17,589
Louisiana - Lafayette 16,885
North Florida 16,372
Eastern Kentucky 15,968
South Alabama 15,311
Lamar 14,288
Florida Gulf Coast 14,099
Arkansas State 13,553
Arkansas - Little Rock 13,000
Idaho 11,180
Coastal Carolina 9,478
Louisiana - Monroe 7,519

I believe the SBC potentials have the same financial abilities as the present school. Notice the enrollments of the recent additions, Texas State, UTA, Ga State, Georgia Southern and App State are much higher than the older members.

An here is where wishful thinking comes in. Georgia State hit 23k students in the late 1970's. Were we ready for FBS based upon enrollment? No. There was no institutional support either internally nor from the BOR for major college athletics. Most of the schools you name have not shown an FBS pulse. The schools who did show a pulse 4 to 6 years ago have largely moved up. Who remains? Missouri State, JMU, Liberty, Jacksonville State. Going out 4 years maybe you add EKU to that list. After that there really isnt anyone regionally showing the "want to" to increase their athletic budget anywhere from 50% to 100% and spend an additional $50M on facilities. That is the reality at this point. Kennesaw State has some serious issues to address to become even viable at the FCS level. Teir athletic support level is basically the same as Georgia State's was in the early 1990's and they dont have 125k local alumni to get $$$ from.

Things can change in a hurry.

If you look back at my original post, I have EKU and Coatal after 2020. Then the rest after them, say 2022 which is 8 years from now. So KSU may be ready in 2022.

(04-21-2014 04:31 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  The Best Option for SBC football is to go ahead and invite:

1. Missouri State - start playing in 2016
2. Texas Arlington (restart fully) - start playing in 2018
3. Florida Gulf Coast - start playing in 2018 (they have support)
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/...-football/

Place these schools in a hold pattern for possible expansion to 16 after 2020

4. Coastal Carolina (nice rivalry for Ga Southern)
5. Eastern Kentucky (nice fit in the footprint, nice rivalry with App State)

Then

6. Kennesaw State (nice replacement if USA or Ga State go to CUSA)
7. North Florida ( will be the last universty in florida without football after FGCU, will be ready to join FGCU)
8. Lamar (long shot but will be nice Texas Triange with Texas State, Texas Arlington....aka the Texas Three or the Three Amigos )

Love ya Florida Jag, but no. FGCU has no alumni base, no facilities, and people in South Florida don't care about college sports (or they simply retain loyalty to whatever school they supported before they moved down to So Fla). We already have Georgia covered. No need to double down in Atlanta. Lamar is a no - small and stagnant, with no current success and a very limited upside (SHSU or even SFA would be better). Coastal is too small. North Florida is a decade away from even a discussion. So is West Florida.


The solution is to simply wait at 11. We don't need any more teams to have a CCG. We have 2 moveups joining next year (App, Ga Southern), two troubled FBS programs joining this year (NMSU and Idaho), 1 FBS moveup that has had a very tough time of it (Georgia State) and 2 FBS moveups that have done okay (USA and Texas State). Lets get our newbies up and competitive before we start reaching again. Heck, who knows what the future could bring.

Jacksonville State and Lamar and Liberty will always be out there because no one else could conceivably consider them. EKU is probably a year out.

Besides, next year, JMU could change their minds, or Missouri State could take a look at the Missouri Valley and note that it ain't what it once was. Or SHSU could decide to put some bucks into the school. Or EKU could get serious.

No need to run out and grab a team at this point.

(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The solution is to simply wait at 11. We don't need any more teams to have a CCG.

You hope. It may happen (obviously the Big12 would dearly love for it to happen), it might not.

But there's no need to move now to get a CCG in the 2015/16 year, so there's plenty of reason to wait and see.

It surely is a point that those who are in opposition to the most obvious remaining add out there ought to be pressing home, to combat the institutional inertia of carrying out an add just because moving to 12 has been the strategy for several years now.

(04-22-2014 03:40 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 01:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The solution is to simply wait at 11. We don't need any more teams to have a CCG.

You hope. It may happen (obviously the Big12 would dearly love for it to happen), it might not.

But there's no need to move now to get a CCG in the 2015/16 year, so there's plenty of reason to wait and see.

It surely is a point that those who are in opposition to the most obvious remaining add out there ought to be pressing home, to combat the institutional inertia of carrying out an add just because moving to 12 has been the strategy for several years now.

If they really want 12 invite UMass. Otherwise, stay put.

I think the ACC's proposal to essentially get rid of divisions and then pick your two best teams for a CCG is going to fly.

But I think the proposal to have less than 12 is less likely to happen. Its just a numbers game...why would the SEC/ACC/BIG support the Big 12 to have a CCG with only 10 members?

That being said, I still don't see the fairness with unbalanced conference scheduling of NOT having divisions. At least divisions has allowed for a natural way to settle a champ.

But the not having divisions part would likely help the American...if there are 2 Top 25 teams, pit them against each other and you will likely end up with the highest rated G5 champ.

(04-22-2014 04:44 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I think the ACC's proposal to essentially get rid of divisions and then pick your two best teams for a CCG is going to fly.

But I think the proposal to have less than 12 is less likely to happen. Its just a numbers game...why would the SEC/ACC/BIG support the Big 12 to have a CCG with only 10 members?

That being said, I still don't see the fairness with unbalanced conference scheduling of NOT having divisions. At least divisions has allowed for a natural way to settle a champ.

But the not having divisions part would likely help the American...if there are 2 Top 25 teams, pit them against each other and you will likely end up with the highest rated G5 champ.

As things stand right now, the Sun Belt and the Big XII want a CCG at under 12.

The AAC, CUSA, the MWC and the MAC want the Big XII to not expand by 2 teams (due to poaching and domino impacts if the Big XII expanded). Certainly the two teams picked might want it, but not the overall conference.

The ACC and the MAC have needs for changing the rules due to unbalanced divisions.

Its going to pass. I don't think the SEC cares. Why would they? The B1G and the Pac? They'll oppose anything.