Big East is dead...

nBE troll is on the loose. Go fight with the a-10 folks. They have nothing going on until November like you guys.

AAC 11 > nBE 6

(04-21-2014 12:04 AM)Tigersmoke Wrote:  Why does every beast fan bring up when they had 3 of 4 teams in the final four? Yet no one ever says who the 4th team was!! Well guess what guys that team is also in the AAC and that team was MEMPHIS!!!!!!. So this conference has history.

The parents of current recruits probably weren't even the age their kids are now when Nova and GT won their titles.
The kids looking to commit to a program now, weren't even a glint in their parents eye.
Today's recruits only know about the former Big East through the schools that turned out the lights, primarily UCONN.

(04-21-2014 05:46 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  nBE troll is on the lose. Go fight with the a-10 folks. They have nothing going on until November like you guys.

AAC 11 > nBE 6

Not true. There's a few crappy FCS teams between the 2 leagues. I think Georgetown even has D3 ball.

(04-21-2014 01:54 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 12:04 AM)Tigersmoke Wrote:  Why does every beast fan bring up when they had 3 of 4 teams in the final four? Yet no one ever says who the 4th team was!! Well guess what guys that team is also in the AAC and that team was MEMPHIS!!!!!!. So this conference has history.

You're counting Memphis? That final four was vacated, which means that it doesn't count.

YES counting it. It happened and I'll be d@mned if I will ever let the NCAA's corrupt selective enforcement be a moral barometer! And I'll go ahead and pre-emptive for you --- it was due to an administrative error that today is totally legal ---the maximum Pell Grant money was extended during a time when the NCAA set a bar a bit lower.

You can spin but really absolute BS unless you also state that Kansas should have its national title "vacated" all it really means is that some of us are not prima donnas. Duke gets nothing for that stuff either.

Ask our Pirates' brethren if they are holding their collective breathe waiting on the NCCA to vacate multiple national titles via blatant academic FRAUD seemingly via politics and the holier than thou, self righteous "The Carolina Way". As a UConn fan, you should be aiming scorn at the blue bloods due to the BS of the Huskies missing the 2013 due to maintaining academic credibility unlike a diploma mill in Chapel Hill that is rewarding for doing so.

(04-19-2014 05:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  What I heard was that Buzz got pushed out at Marquette.

Link?

(04-21-2014 10:32 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 05:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  What I heard was that Buzz got pushed out at Marquette.

Link?

What he heard = what he made up in the hopes of saving face for the Big East. Every story I saw was about Buzz wanting out.

(04-21-2014 10:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 10:32 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 05:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  What I heard was that Buzz got pushed out at Marquette.

Link?

What he heard = what he made up in the hopes of saving face for the Big East. Every story I saw was about Buzz wanting out.

Of course....the big east doesn't even get listed with the major conferences in the ESPN studios while the American gets included. This is a major pill to take for people like Milky. Now down to making up stories. Embarrassing really...

(04-21-2014 11:39 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 10:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 10:32 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 05:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  What I heard was that Buzz got pushed out at Marquette.

Link?

What he heard = what he made up in the hopes of saving face for the Big East. Every story I saw was about Buzz wanting out.

Of course....the big east doesn't even get listed with the major conferences in the ESPN studios while the American gets included. This is a major pill to take for people like Milky. Now down to making up stories. Embarrassing really...

You gotta watch out for these nbe people who incorporate religion into everything; especially something that is so trivial, in the grander scheme of life, as hoops.
They are loons.
The AAC rocked their world. Shattered their whole belief system. Mental midgets.

(04-21-2014 02:13 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 11:00 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 10:41 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  NCAA TOURNAMENT WINS BY CONFERENCE (2014-15 Membership) PAST 10 YEARS

115 - ACC
93 - Big Ten
78 - SEC
74 - Big XII
61 - PAC-12
57 - Big East
41 - American
23 - A10
14 - WCC
14 - MVC
13 - MWC

No one else with more than 4.

That's entirely irrelevant. What's important is that statistic from this year forward. Certain programs that were big dogs in other conferences are now bottom feeders in their new conferences (like Butler). And certain programs that were bottom feeders in other conferences are now big dogs in their new conferences (like SMU).

The landscape has changed significantly since the split. Temple was the flagship of the same conference the NBE poached Xavier and Butler from. However, Temple had a down year last year (missing the tourney for the first time in years) due to attrition. However, this year they are set up to bounce back.

Both UCONN and SMU have already caused other programs to raise their games. No way Houston and Tulsa spend the money they did on coaches, if it were not for the success of Larry Brown and Kevin Ollie. The rising tides of the AAC has raised the expectations of the other programs.

Meanwhile, the NBE is losing major coaching talent left and right, with the departures of Buzz Williams and Brad Stevens. You don't just rebound from losing that level of coaching talent. The affect of FS1 has put a stranglehold on the NBE. OTOH, many AAC programs are getting more exposure than they've ever gotten (which surpasses the exposure of the NBE).

A lot has changed.

What's important is that statistic from this year forward? We don't know what that statistic going forward. Any statement about what lies ahead is pure speculation.

What's relevant about the NCAA wins list is that it rebuts comments in this thread that the BIG east has to harken back to the 19's and Patrick Ewing to find a period of success. The list refutes that.

SMU is now a big dog? They didn't even make the tournament this year. Some big dog.

Butler had one down heat and now their program is on the rocks? They went to the tournament just a year ago and validated that bid by winning a game in that tournament.

All you're doing about SMU and Butler. SMU hasn't accomplished anything yet and butler has a long record of success under multiple coaches that can't be overturned by one down year. Certainly not by your speculation.

Butler is now a "bottom feeder" after one year, but Temple is all set to bounce back? Great theory. Unfortunately temple isn't bringing in any substantial upgrade in talent while the Big East is loading up on top 100 recruits. More baseless speculation on your part. Temple is in serious trouble.

The Big East is in trouble because they're "losing coaches", but Tulsa loses their coach and that's cause for claiming they'll be better? And due to "raising their game" to spend money on a new coach when they haven't invested any more than Manning would have been getting? Laughable. They aren't spending any more than Marquette did for their new hire. So, where's the advantage?

Your final claim that schools can't rebound from losing a high level of coaching talent is the most absurd of all. UConn lost the biggest coaching talent of all a year and a half ago when Calhoun retired. Kevin Ollie proved that you can rebound from losing that level of talent. Meanwhile Marquette hasn't't lost a Calhoun level of talent. Actually the administration had grown tired of Buzz's act and greased the skids for his departure. I'll wait and see how the new coaches actually do rather than putting my faith in your wild speculation.

Meanwhile the facts speak for themselves. The Big East has the 6the most tournament wins over the past decade. They are bringing in 13 recruits from the ESPN top 100. All of the pieces are in place for them to continue the success they've had for decades. Meanwhile the AAC is bringing in 4 recruits from that same ESPN top 100 list.

Melky, I know you hate having Temple in your conference and that’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinion, but let’s look at programs with question marks.

Butler has 2 final fours in the past 5 seasons but that was in 2010 and 11. Since then they have made the tournament once and was knocked out in the round of 32. If you know basketball you can’t say you’re not concerned about this program. New coach, bad first season in the conference and 4 players have transferred out since mid Feburary including one of their top freshmen Elijah Brown.

Creighton has made the tourney 3 times in the last 5 seasons (12, 13, 14) knocked out in the round of 32 all 3 times. They lose 4 seniors, the player of the year, 65% of their scoring and 50% of their rebounding and 4 of their top 5 players in minutes played. You think they have a few question marks?

One of the Big East bright lights from last season was Providence. They made the NCAA for the first time since 2004 and were knocked out in the round of 64. They are losing 4 seniors, 2 of their top scorers who combined for 45% of their scoring, and their top rebounder. From what I understand the prospects at point guard are not looking too deep for next season.

Nova was ranked all of last season last year, but if you look at their body of work over the past 5 seasons they have made it to the NCAA 4 times being knocked out in the round of 32 twice and the round of 64 twice. Ironically enough the same performance Temple had over the last 5 years.

G’Town one of the BE flagships is coming off its worst season in a long time and if you look at their last 5 seasons they made 4 trips to the NCAA and they have only made it past the round of 64 once and then lost in the round of 32. Their fans are screaming for JTIIIs head because of their inability in March.

That’s 5 of the 10 programs in the conference with some major question marks. Let alone Marquette has a new coach who has zero head coaching experience, maybe he will do great but you can’t say that’s not a question mark. St Johns is a program in major turmoil and you must agree one of the biggest underachieving programs in the country. One player declaring early, two players transferring out, and then one not transferring out, Jordan spent most of his free time last season in Philly. Lavin is supposedly a great recruiter but as a game day coach he leaves lot’s to be desired. Big time question marks there. DePaul and Seton Hall are just like the new schools coming into the AAC with no recent NCAA history. Neither of those 2 have made the tourney since 2004 and 2006. SHU has shown some nice signs of improvement last season but how has all the great BE recruiting worked out for DePaul?

Xavier is probably the most stable program with the best track record of tournament success over the past 5 seasons and they lost last season in the play in game.

You keep on bringign up this year's recruiting class. All was done before the miserable season on FS1. FS1 is such an albatross right now it's not funny.

Butler right now is a MAJOR questionmark. They were a hot commodity but last 3 years since the back to back finals- they have missed the tourney 2x and the other time won 1 game. They struggled against the good teams in the A10.

To me, the C7(of which I'm a Georgetown fan btw for those that don't know)- made a mistake in that they've done everything looking short term and not in my opinion looked long term. We took Creighton with McDermott- great for this year, but going forward, will they be able to maintain? Highly questionable. Butler was taken due to their back to back final 4's- but even last year where they did supposedly so well- they went over a month between wins vs winning teams- and got blown up by the good teams in the A10. Xavier was a good pickup I think any way you slice it.

But the bigger problem for me is the C7 just went money route with FS1. I think that you guys were smart sticking with ESPN. Yes short term BE did good recruiting(but a lot of that was due to stuff before FS1 was known). This year and going forward will tell the true story of the recruiting- where everything is known from the start.

Also, given that the Big East doesn't get in play for most of the top 30 recruits, I think if the NBA goes to the 2 year minimum, that's going to hurt the Big East a lot more than folks would want to think.

As far as coaches Melky- Big East has lost now top coaches at Butler and Marquette(2 of the top 5-6 coaches). AAC lost Tulsa's coach. I dunno- Manning would have been maybe the 5th or 6th best coach this year in the AAC? And replaced by a SEC coach? A Bit of a difference.

(04-21-2014 12:01 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 11:39 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 10:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 10:32 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 05:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  What I heard was that Buzz got pushed out at Marquette.

Link?

What he heard = what he made up in the hopes of saving face for the Big East. Every story I saw was about Buzz wanting out.

Of course....the big east doesn't even get listed with the major conferences in the ESPN studios while the American gets included. This is a major pill to take for people like Milky. Now down to making up stories. Embarrassing really...

You gotta watch out for these nbe people who incorporate religion into everything; especially something that is so trivial, in the grander scheme of life, as hoops.
They are loons.
The AAC rocked their world. Shattered their whole belief system. Mental midgets.

So are you saying that god hates the Big East since they were so bad this last year?

(04-21-2014 01:30 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  So are you saying that god hates the Big East since they were so bad this last year?

Does this answer your question?

(04-21-2014 01:00 PM)stever20 Wrote:  You keep on bringign up this year's recruiting class. All was done before the miserable season on FS1. FS1 is such an albatross right now it's not funny.

Butler right now is a MAJOR questionmark. They were a hot commodity but last 3 years since the back to back finals- they have missed the tourney 2x and the other time won 1 game. They struggled against the good teams in the A10.

To me, the C7(of which I'm a Georgetown fan btw for those that don't know)- made a mistake in that they've done everything looking short term and not in my opinion looked long term. We took Creighton with McDermott- great for this year, but going forward, will they be able to maintain? Highly questionable. Butler was taken due to their back to back final 4's- but even last year where they did supposedly so well- they went over a month between wins vs winning teams- and got blown up by the good teams in the A10. Xavier was a good pickup I think any way you slice it.

But the bigger problem for me is the C7 just went money route with FS1. I think that you guys were smart sticking with ESPN. Yes short term BE did good recruiting(but a lot of that was due to stuff before FS1 was known). This year and going forward will tell the true story of the recruiting- where everything is known from the start.

Also, given that the Big East doesn't get in play for most of the top 30 recruits, I think if the NBA goes to the 2 year minimum, that's going to hurt the Big East a lot more than folks would want to think.

As far as coaches Melky- Big East has lost now top coaches at Butler and Marquette(2 of the top 5-6 coaches). AAC lost Tulsa's coach. I dunno- Manning would have been maybe the 5th or 6th best coach this year in the AAC? And replaced by a SEC coach? A Bit of a difference.

And UConn lost Calhoun a year and a half ago. Coaching turnover is part of the business.

As for the recruiting class, it doesn't matter when it was done. The schools still have the players, which sets them up well for the next 4 years.

FS1 is not an albatross. Fox is serious about growing the network. Is Fox main network on equal footing with the big 3? of course they are. They will get their sports network to the same place. It's available in 90,000 homes, almost as many as ESPN. You're the one who's looking too short term.

And money is an issue. The Big East is set with Fox money for the next 10 years. Where is the AAC getting its money for the next 10 years? Oh,, yeah, the look-in. good luck with that. Where's the leverage?

Butler is a question mark in your mind only. did you think they were going to the championship game every year. If Miller doesn't work out, they'll go out and get a coach who will win. Collier is the brains behind that program. They've won under every coach he's brought in for the past 20 years. They were not a creation of Stevens. They are a program that flourished before him and will flourish again now that he's gone. Again, you're looking too short term. One bad season after they lost their leading scorer last summer. Had he been there, results would have been different. Anyone who followed them could see that as they lost close game after close game.

Now you're complaining that the Big East doesn't get in play for most of the top 30 recruits? Haven't you learned anything from watching the tournament over the past 5 years. UConn didn't win with top 30 recruits. They won with 3rd and 4th year players. The Big Ten hasn't won a championship since 2000 despite all the top 30 recruits.

But does the Big East really not get top 30 recruits? They've got 4 of the top 35 coming in next year. They brought in 3 of the top 40 this year. They brought in 2 of the top 30 last year. They brought in 3 of the top 40 the year before. That's a dozen of the top 30-40 over the last 4 years. I'd say they get their share.

(04-21-2014 02:00 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  FS1 is not an albatross. Fox is serious about growing the network. Is Fox main network on equal footing with the big 3? of course they are. They will get their sports network to the same place. It's available in 90,000 homes, almost as many as ESPN. You're the one who's looking too short term.

And money is an issue. The Big East is set with Fox money for the next 10 years. Where is the AAC getting its money for the next 10 years? Oh,, yeah, the look-in. good luck with that. Where's the leverage?

I am highly skeptical that stever20 is a Georgetown fan.

UConn's replacement won the tournament.

Let's just see what happens with the recruiting class. As Providence has tought us recently, it's not a lock at all.

FS1 is an albatross. Until FS1 gets some other properties it's going to be basically a niche channel, with more folks tuning in for UFC or Motocross than they are basketball...

AAC has only 5 years left in their deal now. If the keep up with how they did this year, they will get money...

You are delusional if you think Butler isn't a questionmark. The only reason they won as many games this year as they did is they played all cupcakes OOC(302nd in the country). Stevens maybe wasn't the only coach Butler had, but Stevens was the coach that took them to their highest places(besides him, they had never advanced past the sweet 16).

This year- 14,16,32,34. 2 top 30 recruits.
last year- 17,27. 2 top 30 recruits
2012- 21(Ledo, never played with PC), 23- 2 top 30 recruits
2011- 25- 1 top 30 recruit

So 7 top 30 recruits over the last 4 years, with 6 having played. Only 3 top 20. There's a difference between getting a top 30 and getting a 31-40. But even using your metric, getting 12 top 40 players last 4 years- that's not good. If that trend continues with the NBA going to a 2 year rule, that's going to hurt the Big East. Most of the big names will just continue to go to Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas, Arizona, etc. Those 5 schools got 14 of the top 30 this year. Just imagine how it's going to be when those guys stay 2 years.

Big Ten only has had 15 top 30 recruits in the last 4 years. But even with that- they've had how many final 4's/title game appearances? But, it's not like they're dripping with top 30's like you make it out to be.

Milky - here is the simple problem for the big east.

1). Yes you get $4 million per school but you're also paying the AAC with those same funds

2). You can hope that Fox Sports 1 gets more exposure, but right now that isn't happening. How far behind will the big east get in this continues for another 5 years?

3). Look how many teams in the elite 8 play fbs football. Lack of exposure for the big east brand is going to hurt. You have kids moving from middle school to high school that won't know the big east exists.

4). AAC already got a major head start in NCAA credits

The biggest problem for the big east is fox sports 1. A causal fan doesn't even know your conference exists without being on ESPN.

(04-20-2014 11:00 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  [quote='Melky Cabrera' pid='10688009' dateline='1398051683']




Melky, I know you hate having Temple in your conference and that’s fine, you’re entitled to your opinion, but let’s look at programs with question marks.

Butler has 2 final fours in the past 5 seasons but that was in 2010 and 11. Since then they have made the tournament once and was knocked out in the round of 32. If you know basketball you can’t say you’re not concerned about this program. New coach, bad first season in the conference and 4 players have transferred out since mid Feburary including one of their top freshmen Elijah Brown.

Creighton has made the tourney 3 times in the last 5 seasons (12, 13, 14) knocked out in the round of 32 all 3 times. They lose 4 seniors, the player of the year, 65% of their scoring and 50% of their rebounding and 4 of their top 5 players in minutes played. You think they have a few question marks?

One of the Big East bright lights from last season was Providence. They made the NCAA for the first time since 2004 and were knocked out in the round of 64. They are losing 4 seniors, 2 of their top scorers who combined for 45% of their scoring, and their top rebounder. From what I understand the prospects at point guard are not looking too deep for next season.

Nova was ranked all of last season last year, but if you look at their body of work over the past 5 seasons they have made it to the NCAA 4 times being knocked out in the round of 32 twice and the round of 64 twice. Ironically enough the same performance Temple had over the last 5 years.

G’Town one of the BE flagships is coming off its worst season in a long time and if you look at their last 5 seasons they made 4 trips to the NCAA and they have only made it past the round of 64 once and then lost in the round of 32. Their fans are screaming for JTIIIs head because of their inability in March.

That’s 5 of the 10 programs in the conference with some major question marks. Let alone Marquette has a new coach who has zero head coaching experience, maybe he will do great but you can’t say that’s not a question mark. St Johns is a program in major turmoil and you must agree one of the biggest underachieving programs in the country. One player declaring early, two players transferring out, and then one not transferring out, Jordan spent most of his free time last season in Philly. Lavin is supposedly a great recruiter but as a game day coach he leaves lot’s to be desired. Big time question marks there. DePaul and Seton Hall are just like the new schools coming into the AAC with no recent NCAA history. Neither of those 2 have made the tourney since 2004 and 2006. SHU has shown some nice signs of improvement last season but how has all the great BE recruiting worked out for DePaul?

Xavier is probably the most stable program with the best track record of tournament success over the past 5 seasons and they lost last season in the play in game.

You're being completely silly.

First of all, Providence did not lose 4 seniors. They lost 2. They return 3 starters, their 6th man, a former starter who was injured this year, and they bring in 5 top recruits. They're in great shape.

Marquette lost a good coach who had worn out his welcome there. Once again, they will bring in a coach with no prior head coaching experience - just like Tom Cream and pretty much like Buzz, who had only one year of prior HC experience.

I am not concerned about Butler in the slightest. Every program goes through ups and downs. You're acting like 2010-11 was last century instead of 3 years ago. They are a program that has had success with every one of the 4 coaches before Miller. They'll continue to have success. That's what good programs do. They lost their leading scorer for the season with an injury last summer. That made a tremendous difference as they lost a dozen of their games by single digits - 4 of them in OT.

So what that Creighton is rebuilding. Is that a surpass that teams rebuild? Creighton is a program, not just this year's team. That program has been to the NCAA tournament 10 times in the past 16 years. They'll be back.

I have no idea what your nitpick over Villanova is. They're loaded coming back next year, losing only one player forma top ten team. The coach has taken them to two Elite 8's and a Final four in the past decade. No one wins every year. Have you noticed Coach K's early exits in recent years? I guess that Duke is in trouble by your thinking, right?

Let Georgetown fans scream all they want. Again, see Duke. Schools go through those kinds of runs. Just look at the recruiting class that JT III is bringing in for next year - 3 players from the top 35, one of who is a top 15 prospect. They too will be just fine.

St. John's is in turmoil, but they still have a lot of talent. Jordan was a freshman whose family member was murdered while he was dealing with the normal adjustments of a college freshman. No wonder he spent a lot of time in Philly. If St. John's is the biggest problem the conference has, then they have a lot to be thankful for. Imagine that one of their programs is underachieving. Never happens, right?

You're comparing SHU and DePaul to the new teams coming into the AAC because they've struggled in the past 10 years? Seriously? You're comparing 2 programs with tough recent history to teams with no history in their entire existence. SHU is following right in SMU's footsteps. Bringing in a two top 50 recruits next year, one of them top 15. Their new coach has them moving in the right direction.

Meanwhile Xavier lost a game in the tournament while dealing with an injured player? Heavens! The sky is falling!

(04-21-2014 02:21 PM)stever20 Wrote:  UConn's replacement won the tournament.

Let's just see what happens with the recruiting class. As Providence has tought us recently, it's not a lock at all.

FS1 is an albatross. Until FS1 gets some other properties it's going to be basically a niche channel, with more folks tuning in for UFC or Motocross than they are basketball...

AAC has only 5 years left in their deal now. If the keep up with how they did this year, they will get money...

You are delusional if you think Butler isn't a questionmark. The only reason they won as many games this year as they did is they played all cupcakes OOC(302nd in the country). Stevens maybe wasn't the only coach Butler had, but Stevens was the coach that took them to their highest places(besides him, they had never advanced past the sweet 16).

This year- 14,16,32,34. 2 top 30 recruits.
last year- 17,27. 2 top 30 recruits
2012- 21(Ledo, never played with PC), 23- 2 top 30 recruits
2011- 25- 1 top 30 recruit

So 7 top 30 recruits over the last 4 years, with 6 having played. Only 3 top 20. There's a difference between getting a top 30 and getting a 31-40. But even using your metric, getting 12 top 40 players last 4 years- that's not good. If that trend continues with the NBA going to a 2 year rule, that's going to hurt the Big East. Most of the big names will just continue to go to Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas, Arizona, etc. Those 5 schools got 14 of the top 30 this year. Just imagine how it's going to be when those guys stay 2 years.

Big Ten only has had 15 top 30 recruits in the last 4 years. But even with that- they've had how many final 4's/title game appearances? But, it's not like they're dripping with top 30's like you make it out to be.

Steve, what's your hang up with the number 30? Seriously.