(04-28-2014 06:04 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  For simplicity, they might do something like this:

3 permanent partners:
- keep the crossover you currently have
- keep 1 team from your current division
- pick 1 more team from the other division

That way, each year you simply play the rest of the teams in our old division one year and the remaining teams in the other division the next year, alternating home/away every 2 years.

For Va Tech, this might look like:

permanent: BC, UVA, Louisville
Atlantic: FSU, Clemson, NC St, Wake, Syracuse
Coastal: Miami, Ga Tech, UNC, Duke, Pitt

Not optimal, but simple to do.

for Syracuse that would be:
Pittsburgh
Boston College
any of these would suffice for me from other division: Miami,VT,Virginia

(04-28-2014 06:04 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  For simplicity, they might do something like this:

3 permanent partners:
- keep the crossover you currently have
- keep 1 team from your current division
- pick 1 more team from the other division

That way, each year you simply play the rest of the teams in our old division one year and the remaining teams in the other division the next year, alternating home/away every 2 years.

For Va Tech, this might look like:

permanent: BC, UVA, Louisville
Atlantic: FSU, Clemson, NC St, Wake, Syracuse
Coastal: Miami, Ga Tech, UNC, Duke, Pitt

Not optimal, but simple to do.

have you went through and done it for every team basically to have 2 from the other division and 1 from their current division?I have tried and it never works out

(04-28-2014 07:02 PM)Chris02M Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 06:04 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  For simplicity, they might do something like this:

3 permanent partners:
- keep the crossover you currently have
- keep 1 team from your current division
- pick 1 more team from the other division

That way, each year you simply play the rest of the teams in our old division one year and the remaining teams in the other division the next year, alternating home/away every 2 years.

For Va Tech, this might look like:

permanent: BC, UVA, Louisville
Atlantic: FSU, Clemson, NC St, Wake, Syracuse
Coastal: Miami, Ga Tech, UNC, Duke, Pitt

Not optimal, but simple to do.

have you went through and done it for every team basically to have 2 from the other division and 1 from their current division?I have tried and it never works out

I didn't think it through but you are absolutely correct - this is a mathematical impossibility... thank goodness, because it would've STUNK

I came up with permanent rivals which I think are good:

FLORIDA STATE- Miami, Clemson, Georgia Tech
CLEMSON- Georgia Tech, Florida State, NC State /wake
SYRACUSE-Pittsburgh, Boston College,Louisville
LOUISVILLE- Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
BOSTON COLLEGE- Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Wake/NC State
WAKE FOREST- Duke, NC State, BC/Clemson
NC STATE- North Carolina, Wake, Clemson/ BC
MIAMI- Florida State, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh
VIRGINIA TECH- Boston College, Miami, Virginia
VIRGINIA- Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
PITTSBURGH-Syracuse, Louisville, Miami
GEORGIA TECH- Clemson, Duke, Florida State
DUKE- Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, North Carolina
NORTH CAROLINA- NC State, Virginia, Duke

thoughts?
Id let the group decide on last permanent rivals between Clemson, NC State, Wake and Boston College either bc/wake or bc/nc state

(04-28-2014 09:50 PM)Chris02M Wrote:  I came up with permanent rivals which I think are good:

FLORIDA STATE- Miami, Clemson, Georgia Tech
CLEMSON- Georgia Tech, Florida State, NC State /wake
SYRACUSE-Pittsburgh, Boston College, Syracuse
LOUISVILLE- Virginia, Pittsburgh, Louisville
BOSTON COLLEGE- Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Wake/NC State
WAKE FOREST- Duke, NC State, BC/Clemson
NC STATE- North Carolina, Wake, Clemson/ BC
MIAMI- Florida State, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh
VIRGINIA TECH- Boston College, Miami, Virginia
VIRGINIA- Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
PITTSBURGH-Syracuse, Louisville, Miami
GEORGIA TECH- Clemson, Duke, Florida State
DUKE- Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, North Carolina
NORTH CAROLINA- NC State, Virginia, Duke

thoughts?
Id let the group decide on last permanent rivals between Clemson, NC State, Wake and Boston College either bc/wake or bc/nc state

As long as UVA and Louisville are fine with each other I think it looks great and is very close to what I think would happen if the ACC went this way. My guess is it will be Clemson/NC State and BC/Wake. I'd prefer VT for Pitt but this is an acceptable alternative.

(04-28-2014 02:54 PM)Ragu Wrote:  The ACC taking Pitt overall is more than enough payback already for them just giving up Notre Dame in football every year. Would be in the Big 12 with massive travel costs or in the American if the ACC didnt rescue you guys.

Yeah, I don't see it that way. You didn't choose Pitt out of some benevolent act of charity. The ACC's football product has long lacked long term street cred and Pitt and Syracuse bolster that significantly. Aside from Miami and maybe Florida State, who else in the ACC can even approach what Pitt and Syracuse have accomplished on the field over the years?

Nobody, that's who. Just look at the whose who list of those schools' all-time greats vs. the similar lists of the other ACC schools and it's not even close. I'm sorry but it's not.

We have earned our spot at the table and if you think we're just going to sit in the corner and do as we're told, you should have taken Connecticut or Cincinnati or some other lackey.

I know this is an impossible concept for some of you to understand and/or accept but we know what the hell we're doing and we're not in exactly in awe of our new surroundings. I don't think asking for Miami, Syracuse and Virginia Tech is asking for the moon but it is asking for something. If we get stuck with NC State, Virginia and some other scrap of meat that means nothing to anyone associated with Pitt, you can bet your arse that folks are going to raise holy hell, as well they should.

If we're going to spend our time scratching Florida State's back here and rubbing Georgia Tech's belly there, we'd like to take our place in line too. Otherwise, mine is a no vote to every single piece of legislation aimed at placating the malcontents.

(04-28-2014 09:50 PM)Chris02M Wrote:  I came up with permanent rivals which I think are good:

FLORIDA STATE- Miami, Clemson, Georgia Tech
CLEMSON- Georgia Tech, Florida State, NC State /wake
SYRACUSE-Pittsburgh, Boston College, Syracuse
LOUISVILLE- Virginia, Pittsburgh, Louisville
BOSTON COLLEGE- Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Wake/NC State
WAKE FOREST- Duke, NC State, BC/Clemson
NC STATE- North Carolina, Wake, Clemson/ BC
MIAMI- Florida State, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh
VIRGINIA TECH- Boston College, Miami, Virginia
VIRGINIA- Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia Tech
PITTSBURGH-Syracuse, Louisville, Miami
GEORGIA TECH- Clemson, Duke, Florida State
DUKE- Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, North Carolina
NORTH CAROLINA- NC State, Virginia, Duke

thoughts?
Id let the group decide on last permanent rivals between Clemson, NC State, Wake and Boston College either bc/wake or bc/nc state

That would be one way to increase attendance at the spring game.

As an alternative, we would accept the restoration of the Notre Dame series and then whichever two loose ends you want to pass off on us. That too would be a fair compromise.

(04-28-2014 10:45 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 02:54 PM)Ragu Wrote:  The ACC taking Pitt overall is more than enough payback already for them just giving up Notre Dame in football every year. Would be in the Big 12 with massive travel costs or in the American if the ACC didnt rescue you guys.

Yeah, I don't see it that way. You didn't choose Pitt out of some benevolent act of charity. The ACC's football product has long lacked long term street cred and Pitt and Syracuse bolster that significantly. Aside from Miami and maybe Florida State, who else in the ACC can even approach what Pitt and Syracuse have accomplished on the field over the years?

Nobody, that's who. Just look at the whose who list of those schools' all-time greats vs. the similar lists of the other ACC schools and it's not even close. I'm sorry but it's not.

We have earned our spot at the table and if you think we're just going to sit in the corner and do as we're told, you should have taken Connecticut or Cincinnati or some other lackey.

I know this is an impossible concept for some of you to understand and/or accept but we know what the hell we're doing and we're not in exactly in awe of our new surroundings. I don't think asking for Miami, Syracuse and Virginia Tech is asking for the moon but it is asking for something. If we get stuck with NC State, Virginia and some other scrap of meat that means nothing to anyone associated with Pitt, you can bet your arse that folks are going to raise holy hell, as well they should.

If we're going to spend our time scratching Florida State's back here and rubbing Georgia Tech's belly there, we'd like to take our place in line too. Otherwise, mine is a no vote to every single piece of legislation aimed at placating the malcontents.

Maybe Florida State?



I don't mind helping out Pitt some with the schedule due to you all sacrificing ND - althought Ragu is right that it was either ACC without ND, Big 12 with ND, or Big East with ND, and the ACC was obviously your most preferred choice. So don't act like you sacrificed everything to save the ACC, because the ACC saved Pitt's ass just as much.

And FSU has 3 times as many football national titles as the rest of the conference combined since 1993. So "maybe" including us is quite humorous.

(04-28-2014 10:45 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 02:54 PM)Ragu Wrote:  The ACC taking Pitt overall is more than enough payback already for them just giving up Notre Dame in football every year. Would be in the Big 12 with massive travel costs or in the American if the ACC didnt rescue you guys.

Yeah, I don't see it that way. You didn't choose Pitt out of some benevolent act of charity. The ACC's football product has long lacked long term street cred and Pitt and Syracuse bolster that significantly. Aside from Miami and maybe Florida State, who else in the ACC can even approach what Pitt and Syracuse have accomplished on the field over the years?

Nobody, that's who. Just look at the whose who list of those schools' all-time greats vs. the similar lists of the other ACC schools and it's not even close. I'm sorry but it's not.

We have earned our spot at the table and if you think we're just going to sit in the corner and do as we're told, you should have taken Connecticut or Cincinnati or some other lackey.

I know this is an impossible concept for some of you to understand and/or accept but we know what the hell we're doing and we're not in exactly in awe of our new surroundings. I don't think asking for Miami, Syracuse and Virginia Tech is asking for the moon but it is asking for something. If we get stuck with NC State, Virginia and some other scrap of meat that means nothing to anyone associated with Pitt, you can bet your arse that folks are going to raise holy hell, as well they should.

If we're going to spend our time scratching Florida State's back here and rubbing Georgia Tech's belly there, we'd like to take our place in line too. Otherwise, mine is a no vote to every single piece of legislation aimed at placating the malcontents.

Pitt's success is a thing of the past to say the least. Same with Syracuse. What matters is now. Virginia Tech, Clemson, and even Louisville have a bigger leg to stand on when talking football than Pitt/Cuse in the ACC to say the least.

Pitt/Cuse do very little for the ACC in football at this time. Hate to break it to you but that is how it is. Nobody sees them as altering the landscape or making the ACC a more powerful football conference. Especially Syracuse which is looked at as a basketball school. The adds were for markets/money. They definitely weren't to bolster the football product.

Let's put it this way. The tv execs aren't salivating over Pitt and Syracuse playing ACC teams. They aren't going man that's can't miss tv to see Pitt and Syracuse playing those teams in football! This is obvious to anyone who can be objective about this.

(04-28-2014 10:45 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 02:54 PM)Ragu Wrote:  The ACC taking Pitt overall is more than enough payback already for them just giving up Notre Dame in football every year. Would be in the Big 12 with massive travel costs or in the American if the ACC didnt rescue you guys.

Yeah, I don't see it that way. You didn't choose Pitt out of some benevolent act of charity. The ACC's football product has long lacked long term street cred and Pitt and Syracuse bolster that significantly. Aside from Miami and maybe Florida State, who else in the ACC can even approach what Pitt and Syracuse have accomplished on the field over the years?

Georgia Tech is a very close match to Pittsburgh, and Duke is very similar to Syracuse, IMO. I write that, not to criticize, but to say "come back down to earth".

I don't think the ACC will ignore the wishes of Pitt or Syracuse (regardless of what posters on this board may want to happen). The final arrangement will look like a camel - a horse designed by a committee.

(04-29-2014 07:57 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 10:45 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 02:54 PM)Ragu Wrote:  The ACC taking Pitt overall is more than enough payback already for them just giving up Notre Dame in football every year. Would be in the Big 12 with massive travel costs or in the American if the ACC didnt rescue you guys.

Yeah, I don't see it that way. You didn't choose Pitt out of some benevolent act of charity. The ACC's football product has long lacked long term street cred and Pitt and Syracuse bolster that significantly. Aside from Miami and maybe Florida State, who else in the ACC can even approach what Pitt and Syracuse have accomplished on the field over the years?

Georgia Tech is a very close match to Pittsburgh, and Duke is very similar to Syracuse, IMO. I write that, not to criticize, but to say "come back down to earth".

I don't think the ACC will ignore the wishes of Pitt or Syracuse (regardless of what posters on this board may want to happen). The final arrangement will look like a camel - a horse designed by a committee.

They're really not. There is a 9% winning percentage difference (49%-58%), there is a NC difference (1-0), there is a Heisman difference (1-0), there is a HoFer difference (SU is top 5 - I don't know what Duke is), there is a bowl difference (SYR has 2.5x the bowl appearances - 5x the wins), and Syracuse has 10.5x the number of All Americans.

The fact that you as a Syracuse fan are bringing up a claimed national title from 1959 tells you all you need to know about Syracuse football in the present day. Who gives a damn about that? We are talking about now. Right now, you guys are indeed very similar to a Duke. History and the past does nothing to help the ACC.

(04-26-2014 08:17 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(04-23-2014 09:01 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  It now seems a given that the ACC proposal to de-regulate the way conferences larger than 11 may schedule and decide who plays in a Championship Game is going to pass. The Big 12 is co-sponsor, and the change would allow it to hold a Championship with just 10 teams, or 11 if they add 1.

For us, and I think for the Pac and Big Ten, the main issue is freedom to schedule other than based on 2 divisions that each play an annual round robin. It would mean we schedule with no divisions, cutting back the number of annual rivals so that everyone is played often.

In case you haven't thought about the problem, as the system now operates, we all will play Notre Dame more often than we play full members of ACC football who are not annual rivals. UNC, for example, will play ND more often than we play FSU and Clemson.

Going 8-10 years between meetings in conference games is not a good thing. And this change in NCAA regulations will allow us to make things better. It will keep the entire league refreshed, with new teams rotating on the ACC schedule at least every 2 years.

All signs indicate that we are keeping an 8 game conference schedule. If we each have 3 annual rivals, we will play the other 10 teams in the conference 2 times every 4 years. We will see every team at least twice every 4 years.

That seems to me to be close to ideal. None of us have more than 3 teams we must play each year. Each of us now plays annual games against 2 or 3 schools that our fans would not mind seeing less often, and each of us have fans who would greatly prefer to play a team or two or three more often than the old NCAA rules allow.

Below is my list of 3 annual rivals for each full member of ACC football. It starts with the MUST PLAY games, based on history(like The South's Oldest Rivalry and GT-Dook) and the need to maximize TV interests and deal with SEC rivalries (which is the reason I have FSU playing GT annually), and then taking account of Thanksgiving weekend season ending games.

All teams should play every Thanksgiving weekend so no one ever plays in the Championship after a bye week. We have 4 teams that will end the season versus SEC in-state rivals (FSU, GT, Clemson, and Louisville). UVA and VT must end the season. So must the 4 NC schools, though it might be interesting to have that rotate, so that in some years UNC closes with Dook while MooU closes with Wake, and in other years UNC closes with MooU while Dook closes with Wake.

I think that the 3 schools north of the Mason-Dixon line should play each other annually as part of maximizing northern interest in ACC football.

That leaves 4 teams who need an annual season ending game: Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC. BC and Cuse, as border state schools, probably should close the season, which would leave Miami closing with Pitt.

With all that in mind, here is my list:

BC - Syracuse, Pitt, Wake
Syracuse - BC, Pitt, Louisville
Pitt - BC, Syracuse, Miami
Louisville - VT, Syracuse, UVA
UVA - UNC, VT, Louisville
VT - UVA, Louisville, Miami
UNC - UVA, Dook, MooU
Dook - UNC, Wake, GT
MooU - UNC, Wake, Clemson
Wake - Dook, MooU, BC
Clemson - GT, FSU, MooU
GT - Clemson, FSU, Dook
FSU - Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami - FSU, Pitt, VT

I think those match-ups are about the best the ACC could manage (even though as an SU fan I'd much rather have Miami annually than any of the three likely to be our annual partners).

It will be interesting to see what the ACC develops.

Cheers,
Neil

Nothing will ever be perfect.........but this is pretty darn close.

(04-29-2014 08:13 AM)Ragu Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 08:05 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 07:57 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 10:45 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Aside from Miami and maybe Florida State, who else in the ACC can even approach what ... Syracuse ha[s] accomplished on the field over the years?

...Duke is very similar to Syracuse, IMO.

They're really not...

The fact that you as a Syracuse fan are bringing up a claimed national title from 1959 tells you all you need to know about Syracuse football in the present day. Who gives a damn about that? We are talking about now. Right now, you guys are indeed very similar to a Duke. History and the past does nothing to help the ACC.

#FSUfanscan'tread

I can read just fine. Dr was saying over the years. Hokie was talking about right now clearly when he compared you to Duke in the present day.

Also hashtag smack is queer as hell.

This is devolving into a Big East style thread.

Stop now before we all drown in a yellow river.

(04-29-2014 08:23 AM)Ragu Wrote:  I can read just fine. Dr was saying over the years. Hokie was talking about right now clearly when he compared you to Duke in the present day.

Also hashtag smack is queer as hell.

I'll let this comment speak or itself and end it at that. Have a great rest of the day and congrats again on FSU's football title. It was a great day for the ACC and it was an even greater day for FSU. Good luck next year.

Yeah using stupid twitter language is just plain dumb. Clearly Hokie was comparing present day Duke to present day Syracuse. Nobody cares about Syracuse football in your grandpa's time in regards to the ACC.

(04-29-2014 07:57 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 10:45 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 02:54 PM)Ragu Wrote:  The ACC taking Pitt overall is more than enough payback already for them just giving up Notre Dame in football every year. Would be in the Big 12 with massive travel costs or in the American if the ACC didnt rescue you guys.

Yeah, I don't see it that way. You didn't choose Pitt out of some benevolent act of charity. The ACC's football product has long lacked long term street cred and Pitt and Syracuse bolster that significantly. Aside from Miami and maybe Florida State, who else in the ACC can even approach what Pitt and Syracuse have accomplished on the field over the years?

Georgia Tech is a very close match to Pittsburgh, and Duke is very similar to Syracuse, IMO. I write that, not to criticize, but to say "come back down to earth".

I don't think the ACC will ignore the wishes of Pitt or Syracuse (regardless of what posters on this board may want to happen). The final arrangement will look like a camel - a horse designed by a committee.

Duke Bowl record: 3-7
Syracuse Bowl record: 15-9-1

Duke All Time Wins 474-495-32
Syracuse All Time Wins 708-504-49

Not to mention the national championship difference or the top 10 difference in Hall Of Famers. Syracuse has had much more success on the gridiron than Dhke in almost every decade. What has damaged Syracuse was its worst 5 year period in its history from 2005-2009. Suddenly Syracuse is on par with Duke.

For those who think that SU and Pitt fb brings nothing to the Acc, SU and Pitt consistantly had the highest fb tv ratings in the BE, even as middling programs in the BE. As middling programs in the ACC, both programs get solid tv ratings to this day in the Acc. Some of you guys can trash history and tradition as much as you want, but history and tradition accounts for something when comes to tv. The Acc could have taken Pitt and Uconn, or Uconn and SU. The Acc could have taken Uconn and Louisville first. They are both better bb schools than Pitt and Syracuse. But the Acc took Pitt and Syracuse first. And the league would have been happy with that lineup if not for Maryland bolting to the BIG.