(04-21-2014 01:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  The natural problem the league would have if they tried to do this by taking a poll is that too many teams would want Miami as a permanent rival. Miami is only allowed three like everybody else, so something has to give.

The point somebody else made, though, is the reason why an 8 game slate is infinitely preferable to 9. Everybody plays everybody else at least twice, and at least once at home, every four year. That's hard to beat.

One possibility with an 8-game schedule (and the ACC is stupid if they don't do this) - you can create a schedule where every team plays either Miami or FSU annually. You could do the same for the other extreme and give every team either BC or Syracuse annually as well. That way it keeps things more even.

(04-21-2014 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  One possibility with an 8-game schedule (and the ACC is stupid if they don't do this) - you can create a schedule where every team plays either Miami or FSU annually. You could do the same for the other extreme and give every team either BC or Syracuse annually as well. That way it keeps things more even.

Why not just do it across the board? I'll use Louisville as an example.

Louisville
- Permanent opponents: BC, Cuse, Pitt
- Rotating opponents 1st group: FSU, UVA, UNC, Duke, GT
- Rotating opponents 2nd group: Miami, VT, NC St, Wake, Clemson

Looks fairly balanced and ensures plenty of exposure throughout the ACC footprint every single year.

Looking at all of these options, I am trying to imagine how the ACC office would have set up permanent division-less rivalries if Maryland had stayed, without completely pissing Maryland off. Maybe that's part of why they left? This concept has to have been discussed at least since the ACC considered going to 14.

So I don't expect the ACC office will set up any permanent rivalries that alienate or inconvenience Virginia. It's probably already been worked out.

(04-21-2014 10:17 PM)opossum Wrote:  Looking at all of these options, I am trying to imagine how the ACC office would have set up permanent division-less rivalries if Maryland had stayed, without completely pissing Maryland off. Maybe that's part of why they left? This concept has to have been discussed at least since the ACC considered going to 14.

So I don't expect the ACC office will set up any permanent rivalries that alienate or inconvenience Virginia. It's probably already been worked out.

Unlike Maryland, UVA is pretty straightforward though. Two of their rivals are guaranteed: VT and UNC. I don't know who else UVA would want, Duke or GT? but it wouldn't be too difficult to give them three teams they are happy with.

(04-21-2014 10:30 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 10:17 PM)opossum Wrote:  Looking at all of these options, I am trying to imagine how the ACC office would have set up permanent division-less rivalries if Maryland had stayed, without completely pissing Maryland off. Maybe that's part of why they left? This concept has to have been discussed at least since the ACC considered going to 14.

So I don't expect the ACC office will set up any permanent rivalries that alienate or inconvenience Virginia. It's probably already been worked out.

Unlike Maryland, UVA is pretty straightforward though. Two of their rivals are guaranteed: VT and UNC. I don't know who else UVA would want, Duke or GT? but it wouldn't be too difficult to give them three teams they are happy with.

That's kind of my point, schools that might have been approached by other conferences would have looked ahead at their prospects in the ACC. Obviously, Virginia was comfortable with the plans. Maybe Maryland wasn't.

(04-21-2014 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 01:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  The natural problem the league would have if they tried to do this by taking a poll is that too many teams would want Miami as a permanent rival. Miami is only allowed three like everybody else, so something has to give.

The point somebody else made, though, is the reason why an 8 game slate is infinitely preferable to 9. Everybody plays everybody else at least twice, and at least once at home, every four year. That's hard to beat.

One possibility with an 8-game schedule (and the ACC is stupid if they don't do this) - you can create a schedule where every team plays either Miami or FSU annually. You could do the same for the other extreme and give every team either BC or Syracuse annually as well. That way it keeps things more even.

I'm not sure the northern schools see visiting Tallahassee the same way they see visiting Miami. Miami is the recruiting Nirvana, and south and central Florida more likely retirement destinations for alumni. FSU, not so much. I think if you gave Syracuse a choice between the two they'd take Miami every time.

What say you, Orange fans? Would you be as happy with FSU as a permanent rival as you would with Miami? Would you prefer the Noles over Georgia Tech because they are in the state of Florida?

(04-22-2014 11:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 01:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  The natural problem the league would have if they tried to do this by taking a poll is that too many teams would want Miami as a permanent rival. Miami is only allowed three like everybody else, so something has to give.

The point somebody else made, though, is the reason why an 8 game slate is infinitely preferable to 9. Everybody plays everybody else at least twice, and at least once at home, every four year. That's hard to beat.

One possibility with an 8-game schedule (and the ACC is stupid if they don't do this) - you can create a schedule where every team plays either Miami or FSU annually. You could do the same for the other extreme and give every team either BC or Syracuse annually as well. That way it keeps things more even.

I'm not sure the northern schools see visiting Tallahassee the same way they see visiting Miami. Miami is the recruiting Nirvana, and south and central Florida more likely retirement destinations for alumni. FSU, not so much. I think if you gave Syracuse a choice between the two they'd take Miami every time.

What say you, Orange fans? Would you be as happy with FSU as a permanent rival as you would with Miami? Would you prefer the Noles over Georgia Tech because they are in the state of Florida?

You are correct about Miami over FSU for Orange fans. I think Pitt fans would feel the same way. But I think most of that has to do with the fact that Miami was in the BE and we had some great games against each other. Syracuse was alot better then and the teams liked to play each other.

(04-22-2014 11:51 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 11:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 01:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  The natural problem the league would have if they tried to do this by taking a poll is that too many teams would want Miami as a permanent rival. Miami is only allowed three like everybody else, so something has to give.

The point somebody else made, though, is the reason why an 8 game slate is infinitely preferable to 9. Everybody plays everybody else at least twice, and at least once at home, every four year. That's hard to beat.

One possibility with an 8-game schedule (and the ACC is stupid if they don't do this) - you can create a schedule where every team plays either Miami or FSU annually. You could do the same for the other extreme and give every team either BC or Syracuse annually as well. That way it keeps things more even.

I'm not sure the northern schools see visiting Tallahassee the same way they see visiting Miami. Miami is the recruiting Nirvana, and south and central Florida more likely retirement destinations for alumni. FSU, not so much. I think if you gave Syracuse a choice between the two they'd take Miami every time.

What say you, Orange fans? Would you be as happy with FSU as a permanent rival as you would with Miami? Would you prefer the Noles over Georgia Tech because they are in the state of Florida?

You are correct about Miami over FSU for Orange fans. I think Pitt fans would feel the same way. But I think most of that has to do with the fact that Miami was in the BE and we had some great games against each other. Syracuse was alot better then and the teams liked to play each other.

Yeah, Pitt would prefer Miami to FSU as an annual opponent. As cuseroc said, much of that has to do with history. Pitt has played Miami 33 times and FSU only 9 times. Pitt and Miami played pretty frequently even from before they were in the Big East together. It doesn't really matter though, FSU and Pitt would never be annual opponents and even if they were, obviously no one at Pitt would complain at all.

(04-22-2014 11:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 01:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  The natural problem the league would have if they tried to do this by taking a poll is that too many teams would want Miami as a permanent rival. Miami is only allowed three like everybody else, so something has to give.

The point somebody else made, though, is the reason why an 8 game slate is infinitely preferable to 9. Everybody plays everybody else at least twice, and at least once at home, every four year. That's hard to beat.

One possibility with an 8-game schedule (and the ACC is stupid if they don't do this) - you can create a schedule where every team plays either Miami or FSU annually. You could do the same for the other extreme and give every team either BC or Syracuse annually as well. That way it keeps things more even.

I'm not sure the northern schools see visiting Tallahassee the same way they see visiting Miami. Miami is the recruiting Nirvana, and south and central Florida more likely retirement destinations for alumni. FSU, not so much. I think if you gave Syracuse a choice between the two they'd take Miami every time.

What say you, Orange fans? Would you be as happy with FSU as a permanent rival as you would with Miami? Would you prefer the Noles over Georgia Tech because they are in the state of Florida?

Um I dont think you would have to worry about choosing as Syracuse is probably bottom 3 on FSU's desired annual rivals list. Might even be last. Georgia Tech, Clemson etc dont have Syracuse anywhere near the top either. So it isnt as if Syracuse would have the choice of any of them as rivals.

There is plenty of talent all over Florida. And as someone who lived in South Florida, there are plenty of old people there too.

When I lived in Miami , Hollywood and Miramar in the 1960's nearly everyone I went to school with was from either N.Y., NJ., Pa., Mi. OH. or Ma. So Outside of the Latin American base many from Miami would probably like 'Cuse or Pitt playing often. I'm sure many still live in South Florida today.

These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

VT's order would look like this:
This assumes they split the NC schools up so we are playing two each year. Otherwise put in Wake or NCSU at #3.
1. UVA
2. Miami
3. Pitt

4. Clemson
5. GT
6. FSU
7. BC
8. Syracuse
9. Louisville

I suspect they'll find a way to stick us with BC or Louisville though.

(04-22-2014 01:00 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 11:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 08:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-21-2014 01:50 PM)ken d Wrote:  The natural problem the league would have if they tried to do this by taking a poll is that too many teams would want Miami as a permanent rival. Miami is only allowed three like everybody else, so something has to give.

The point somebody else made, though, is the reason why an 8 game slate is infinitely preferable to 9. Everybody plays everybody else at least twice, and at least once at home, every four year. That's hard to beat.

One possibility with an 8-game schedule (and the ACC is stupid if they don't do this) - you can create a schedule where every team plays either Miami or FSU annually. You could do the same for the other extreme and give every team either BC or Syracuse annually as well. That way it keeps things more even.

I'm not sure the northern schools see visiting Tallahassee the same way they see visiting Miami. Miami is the recruiting Nirvana, and south and central Florida more likely retirement destinations for alumni. FSU, not so much. I think if you gave Syracuse a choice between the two they'd take Miami every time.

What say you, Orange fans? Would you be as happy with FSU as a permanent rival as you would with Miami? Would you prefer the Noles over Georgia Tech because they are in the state of Florida?

Um I dont think you would have to worry about choosing as Syracuse is probably bottom 3 on FSU's desired annual rivals list. Might even be last. Georgia Tech, Clemson etc dont have Syracuse anywhere near the top either. So it isnt as if Syracuse would have the choice of any of them as rivals.

There is plenty of talent all over Florida. And as someone who lived in South Florida, there are plenty of old people there too.

But do they still have eligibility left?

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

I'd love to see a poll of all Carolina fans on that one. That almost sounds like Carolina is either afraid of playing State or considers them an opponent like ECU where you feel you have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Considering how similar the two schools are, record wise, an annual tossup game that will always be a (rare) sellout would seem made to order.

Any other Tarheel fans like to chime in on that?

(04-22-2014 08:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

I'd love to see a poll of all Carolina fans on that one. That almost sounds like Carolina is either afraid of playing State or considers them an opponent like ECU where you feel you have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Considering how similar the two schools are, record wise, an annual tossup game that will always be a (rare) sellout would seem made to order.

Any other Tarheel fans like to chime in on that?

Carolina has a 65-32-6 record against NC State and a 12-3-1 record against ECU. Afraid? I don't think so.

Cuse fans would love to play Miami every year for recruiting and proximity of fans to see them. FSU is awesome too just not located as strategically.

Kind of like asking: You want to date Shakira or Jennifer Garner.

Since 1984 (30 years) the record stands: UNC 16 wins, NC State 14 wins
(and the last 10 years it's 5-5)

UNC fans have tried to say that UNC and Clemson are rivals despite a very similar record.

(04-22-2014 08:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-22-2014 03:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  These are the rivals the ACC will assign to Carolina

UVa
Dook
NC State

These are the rivals that we would prefer to play

UVa
Dook
Georgia Tech

If we could pick 4 instead of three we would add Wake Forest.

I'd love to see a poll of all Carolina fans on that one. That almost sounds like Carolina is either afraid of playing State or considers them an opponent like ECU where you feel you have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Considering how similar the two schools are, record wise, an annual tossup game that will always be a (rare) sellout would seem made to order.

Any other Tarheel fans like to chime in on that?

Agree with XLANCE. UVA and dook a must, GT over state. UNC recruits in GA a lot.

(04-22-2014 01:22 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  When I lived in Miami , Hollywood and Miramar in the 1960's nearly everyone I went to school with was from either N.Y., NJ., Pa., Mi. OH. or Ma. So Outside of the Latin American base many from Miami would probably like 'Cuse or Pitt playing often. I'm sure many still live in South Florida today.

This is true. PITT has a big alumni base here as does Syracuse. My family graduated from PITT (even though they live in TN) and know several folks down here. Miami is historically a Northern city, so it is obvious why most ACC teams want to play Miami annually (in addition to the recruitment benefits).

As a Miami fan I would prefer:

1) Florida State - um, the RIVALS, no doubt
2) Virginia Tech - rivals v2 since BE time
3) Pittsburgh - next best thing, history is there