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NCAA Details P5 autonomy
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CommuterBob Offline
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NCAA Details P5 autonomy
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/....24.14.pdf

The agenda for next week's NCAA Board of Governors meeting details the new NCAA governance structure and what P5 autonomy really means.

The new structure isn't all that interesting, but it is notable that some AD's and student reps will have votes on the Council and Board of Directors.

The areas of autonomy for the P5 will fall into two categories:

Quote:Permissive legislation ? Designed to allow permissive use of resources by any member to advance the legitimate educational or athletics-related needs of student-athletes. Under this proposed governance model, permissive legislation that is developed and adopted among these institutions and conferences may also be adopted by the rest of Division I at each institution's respective discretion, or as determined by its conference.

Or

Actionable legislation ? Adopted and applied to the 65-member institutions to modify specified rules in a manner that enhances the student-athlete experience, or decreases athletics time demands or other burdens of student-athletes. These legislative changes that address student-athlete interests or experience will apply only to the five conferences and their 65-member institutions, although Division I members generally would be free to address the same or similar issues through legislation considered by the new Council ? on any "actionable" item, the 27 other conferences will have the option to adopt at the next Council meeting (instead of waiting for a full legislative cycle), through a nonweighted vote of the 27, rather than a vote of the full Council.

So basically, the idea is that autonomy will be granted to the P5, and certain items will allow adoption by other conferences at their discretion, but other items will require the other 27 conferences to adopt by majority vote.

As of now the scope of autonomy is this:

Permissive:
health and wellness issues
meals and nutrition (pretty much already passed across D1)
full cost of attendance scholarships
expenses for students and family members (e.g. comping admissions, postseason travel for students' families, etc.)
allowing loans for career insurance or allowing the school to provide such insurance
rules for agents and advisors
rules for allowing students to keep likeness for areas other than sports (e.g. allowing students to pursue music career, etc.)

Actionable:
rules related to terms of financial aid (e.g. making scholarships guaranteed, etc.)
ability to cover pre-enrollment expenses (e.g. transportation to enroll, academic support, medical expenses, etc.)
allowing for athletic "dead periods" (e.g. acadmeic redshirt, etc.)
changes to transfer rules within the P5
changes to recruiting rules
rules to better define coaching and support roles

Football is an area that falls automatically under the shared governance structure, meaning all football conferences would have the opportunity to vote on such rules and the P5 can't set those sorts of rules on their own.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2014 02:06 PM by CommuterBob.)
04-18-2014 02:04 PM
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Post: #2
RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 02:04 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/....24.14.pdf

The agenda for next week's NCAA Board of Governors meeting details the new NCAA governance structure and what P5 autonomy really means.

The new structure isn't all that interesting, but it is notable that some AD's and student reps will have votes on the Council and Board of Directors.

The areas of autonomy for the P5 will fall into two categories:

Quote:Permissive legislation ? Designed to allow permissive use of resources by any member to advance the legitimate educational or athletics-related needs of student-athletes. Under this proposed governance model, permissive legislation that is developed and adopted among these institutions and conferences may also be adopted by the rest of Division I at each institution's respective discretion, or as determined by its conference.

Or

Actionable legislation ? Adopted and applied to the 65-member institutions to modify specified rules in a manner that enhances the student-athlete experience, or decreases athletics time demands or other burdens of student-athletes. These legislative changes that address student-athlete interests or experience will apply only to the five conferences and their 65-member institutions, although Division I members generally would be free to address the same or similar issues through legislation considered by the new Council ? on any "actionable" item, the 27 other conferences will have the option to adopt at the next Council meeting (instead of waiting for a full legislative cycle), through a nonweighted vote of the 27, rather than a vote of the full Council.

So basically, the idea is that autonomy will be granted to the P5, and certain items will allow adoption by other conferences at their discretion, but other items will require the other 27 conferences to adopt by majority vote.

As of now the scope of autonomy is this:

Permissive:
health and wellness issues
meals and nutrition (pretty much already passed across D1)
full cost of attendance scholarships
expenses for students and family members (e.g. comping admissions, postseason travel for students' families, etc.)
allowing loans for career insurance or allowing the school to provide such insurance
rules for agents and advisors
rules for allowing students to keep likeness for areas other than sports (e.g. allowing students to pursue music career, etc.)

Actionable:
rules related to terms of financial aid (e.g. making scholarships guaranteed, etc.)
ability to cover pre-enrollment expenses (e.g. transportation to enroll, academic support, medical expenses, etc.)
allowing for athletic "dead periods" (e.g. acadmeic redshirt, etc.)
changes to transfer rules within the P5
changes to recruiting rules
rules to better define coaching and support roles

Football is an area that falls automatically under the shared governance structure, meaning all football conferences would have the opportunity to vote on such rules and the P5 can't set those sorts of rules on their own.

Interesting that on the "actionable" that the G5 is at the mercy of the other 22 conferences.
04-18-2014 03:13 PM
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stever20 Online
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
it'd be very interesting... G5, Big East, Atlantic 10, MVC, WCC all band together that's 9 votes. Would still need 5 other votes.
04-18-2014 03:17 PM
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 03:17 PM)stever20 Wrote:  it'd be very interesting... G5, Big East, Atlantic 10, MVC, WCC all band together that's 9 votes. Would still need 5 other votes.

So AAC, MWC, etc.. schools might want to keep pace with P5 stipends and benefits but won't be able to because of the 21(?) non-FBS conferences.
04-18-2014 03:18 PM
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stever20 Online
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 03:18 PM)BeliefBlazer Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:17 PM)stever20 Wrote:  it'd be very interesting... G5, Big East, Atlantic 10, MVC, WCC all band together that's 9 votes. Would still need 5 other votes.

So AAC, MWC, etc.. schools might want to keep pace with P5 stipends and benefits but won't be able to because of the 21(?) non-FBS conferences.

Yeah(though Big East and A10 would be on their side as well I'd think, and likely MVC and WCC).
04-18-2014 03:23 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 03:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 02:04 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/....24.14.pdf

The agenda for next week's NCAA Board of Governors meeting details the new NCAA governance structure and what P5 autonomy really means.

The new structure isn't all that interesting, but it is notable that some AD's and student reps will have votes on the Council and Board of Directors.

The areas of autonomy for the P5 will fall into two categories:

Quote:Permissive legislation ? Designed to allow permissive use of resources by any member to advance the legitimate educational or athletics-related needs of student-athletes. Under this proposed governance model, permissive legislation that is developed and adopted among these institutions and conferences may also be adopted by the rest of Division I at each institution's respective discretion, or as determined by its conference.

Or

Actionable legislation ? Adopted and applied to the 65-member institutions to modify specified rules in a manner that enhances the student-athlete experience, or decreases athletics time demands or other burdens of student-athletes. These legislative changes that address student-athlete interests or experience will apply only to the five conferences and their 65-member institutions, although Division I members generally would be free to address the same or similar issues through legislation considered by the new Council ? on any "actionable" item, the 27 other conferences will have the option to adopt at the next Council meeting (instead of waiting for a full legislative cycle), through a nonweighted vote of the 27, rather than a vote of the full Council.

So basically, the idea is that autonomy will be granted to the P5, and certain items will allow adoption by other conferences at their discretion, but other items will require the other 27 conferences to adopt by majority vote.

As of now the scope of autonomy is this:

Permissive:
health and wellness issues
meals and nutrition (pretty much already passed across D1)
full cost of attendance scholarships
expenses for students and family members (e.g. comping admissions, postseason travel for students' families, etc.)
allowing loans for career insurance or allowing the school to provide such insurance
rules for agents and advisors
rules for allowing students to keep likeness for areas other than sports (e.g. allowing students to pursue music career, etc.)

Actionable:
rules related to terms of financial aid (e.g. making scholarships guaranteed, etc.)
ability to cover pre-enrollment expenses (e.g. transportation to enroll, academic support, medical expenses, etc.)
allowing for athletic "dead periods" (e.g. acadmeic redshirt, etc.)
changes to transfer rules within the P5
changes to recruiting rules
rules to better define coaching and support roles

Football is an area that falls automatically under the shared governance structure, meaning all football conferences would have the opportunity to vote on such rules and the P5 can't set those sorts of rules on their own.

Interesting that on the "actionable" that the G5 is at the mercy of the other 22 conferences.

Meaning the P5 will be able to redefine dead periods, academic "redshirts", pay for more costs related to attendance, change recruiting rules, change transfer rules, increase coaching staffing/redefine coaching roles---without any input from the rest of D1. Meanwhile, the 5 G5 conferences, who have to compete directly against the P5 in football---will be forced to labor under the same rules as defined and accepted by the other 22 much much poorer D1 conferences. There is no way in hell the other 22 D1 conferences are going to allow the G5 to adopt P5 rules and gain any sort of recruiting advantage over them.

This will be in court by day 2. The G5 wont buy into it and the NCAA will just trade one lawsuit for another. The easiest argument will be if the G5 can afford to do it and are willing to do it, then why is NCAA standing in the way of a better university experience by the G5 student athletes when they allow the same things to be done in the same division by the P5? Why are the G5 athletes less deserving of the same medical treatment or upgraded coaching as the P5 athletes? Good luck defending that suit. Dont know who would file the suit first---the G5 or a G5 athlete.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2014 03:35 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-18-2014 03:27 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 03:18 PM)BeliefBlazer Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:17 PM)stever20 Wrote:  it'd be very interesting... G5, Big East, Atlantic 10, MVC, WCC all band together that's 9 votes. Would still need 5 other votes.

So AAC, MWC, etc.. schools might want to keep pace with P5 stipends and benefits but won't be able to because of the 21(?) non-FBS conferences.

Stipends falls under the "Permissive" category---meaning the G5 (and the rest of D1) can match them as they wish with no approval needed from any other body. However, many benefits--especially in recruiting--appear to be under the "Actionable" category---which would require a majority of the rest of D-1 to approve before the G5 could implement them. Good luck with that. Like I said, this is just a new law suit waiting to happen.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2014 04:30 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-18-2014 03:34 PM
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GoAppsGo92 Offline
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 03:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 02:04 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/....24.14.pdf

The agenda for next week's NCAA Board of Governors meeting details the new NCAA governance structure and what P5 autonomy really means.

The new structure isn't all that interesting, but it is notable that some AD's and student reps will have votes on the Council and Board of Directors.

The areas of autonomy for the P5 will fall into two categories:

Quote:Permissive legislation ? Designed to allow permissive use of resources by any member to advance the legitimate educational or athletics-related needs of student-athletes. Under this proposed governance model, permissive legislation that is developed and adopted among these institutions and conferences may also be adopted by the rest of Division I at each institution's respective discretion, or as determined by its conference.

Or

Actionable legislation ? Adopted and applied to the 65-member institutions to modify specified rules in a manner that enhances the student-athlete experience, or decreases athletics time demands or other burdens of student-athletes. These legislative changes that address student-athlete interests or experience will apply only to the five conferences and their 65-member institutions, although Division I members generally would be free to address the same or similar issues through legislation considered by the new Council ? on any "actionable" item, the 27 other conferences will have the option to adopt at the next Council meeting (instead of waiting for a full legislative cycle), through a nonweighted vote of the 27, rather than a vote of the full Council.

So basically, the idea is that autonomy will be granted to the P5, and certain items will allow adoption by other conferences at their discretion, but other items will require the other 27 conferences to adopt by majority vote.

As of now the scope of autonomy is this:

Permissive:
health and wellness issues
meals and nutrition (pretty much already passed across D1)
full cost of attendance scholarships
expenses for students and family members (e.g. comping admissions, postseason travel for students' families, etc.)
allowing loans for career insurance or allowing the school to provide such insurance
rules for agents and advisors
rules for allowing students to keep likeness for areas other than sports (e.g. allowing students to pursue music career, etc.)

Actionable:
rules related to terms of financial aid (e.g. making scholarships guaranteed, etc.)
ability to cover pre-enrollment expenses (e.g. transportation to enroll, academic support, medical expenses, etc.)
allowing for athletic "dead periods" (e.g. acadmeic redshirt, etc.)
changes to transfer rules within the P5
changes to recruiting rules
rules to better define coaching and support roles

Football is an area that falls automatically under the shared governance structure, meaning all football conferences would have the opportunity to vote on such rules and the P5 can't set those sorts of rules on their own.

Interesting that on the "actionable" that the G5 is at the mercy of the other 22 conferences.

Meaning the P5 will be able to redefine dead periods, academic "redshirts", pay for more costs related to attendance, change recruiting rules, change transfer rules, increase coaching staffing/redefine coaching roles---without any input from the rest of D1. Meanwhile, the 5 G5 conferences, who have to compete directly against the P5 in football---will be forced to labor under the same rules as defined and accepted by the other 22 much much poorer D1 conferences. There is no way in hell the other 22 D1 conferences are going to allow the G5 to adopt P5 rules and gain any sort of recruiting advantage over them.

This will be in court by day 2. The G5 wont buy into it and the NCAA will just trade one lawsuit for another. The easiest argument will be if the G5 can afford to do it and are willing to do it, then why is NCAA standing in the way of a better university experience by the G5 student athletes when they allow the same things to be done in the same division by the P5? Why are the G5 athletes less deserving of the same medical treatment or upgraded coaching as the P5 athletes? Good luck defending that suit.

If what you are saying is what's proposed, you would be right. But it's not. The G5 conferences will be able to adopt any of the changes the P5 passes.
04-18-2014 03:37 PM
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 03:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 02:04 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/....24.14.pdf

The agenda for next week's NCAA Board of Governors meeting details the new NCAA governance structure and what P5 autonomy really means.

The new structure isn't all that interesting, but it is notable that some AD's and student reps will have votes on the Council and Board of Directors.

The areas of autonomy for the P5 will fall into two categories:

Quote:Permissive legislation ? Designed to allow permissive use of resources by any member to advance the legitimate educational or athletics-related needs of student-athletes. Under this proposed governance model, permissive legislation that is developed and adopted among these institutions and conferences may also be adopted by the rest of Division I at each institution's respective discretion, or as determined by its conference.

Or

Actionable legislation ? Adopted and applied to the 65-member institutions to modify specified rules in a manner that enhances the student-athlete experience, or decreases athletics time demands or other burdens of student-athletes. These legislative changes that address student-athlete interests or experience will apply only to the five conferences and their 65-member institutions, although Division I members generally would be free to address the same or similar issues through legislation considered by the new Council ? on any "actionable" item, the 27 other conferences will have the option to adopt at the next Council meeting (instead of waiting for a full legislative cycle), through a nonweighted vote of the 27, rather than a vote of the full Council.

So basically, the idea is that autonomy will be granted to the P5, and certain items will allow adoption by other conferences at their discretion, but other items will require the other 27 conferences to adopt by majority vote.

As of now the scope of autonomy is this:

Permissive:
health and wellness issues
meals and nutrition (pretty much already passed across D1)
full cost of attendance scholarships
expenses for students and family members (e.g. comping admissions, postseason travel for students' families, etc.)
allowing loans for career insurance or allowing the school to provide such insurance
rules for agents and advisors
rules for allowing students to keep likeness for areas other than sports (e.g. allowing students to pursue music career, etc.)

Actionable:
rules related to terms of financial aid (e.g. making scholarships guaranteed, etc.)
ability to cover pre-enrollment expenses (e.g. transportation to enroll, academic support, medical expenses, etc.)
allowing for athletic "dead periods" (e.g. acadmeic redshirt, etc.)
changes to transfer rules within the P5
changes to recruiting rules
rules to better define coaching and support roles

Football is an area that falls automatically under the shared governance structure, meaning all football conferences would have the opportunity to vote on such rules and the P5 can't set those sorts of rules on their own.

Interesting that on the "actionable" that the G5 is at the mercy of the other 22 conferences.

Meaning the P5 will be able to redefine dead periods, academic "redshirts", pay for more costs related to attendance, change recruiting rules, change transfer rules, increase coaching staffing/redefine coaching roles---without any input from the rest of D1. Meanwhile, the 5 G5 conferences, who have to compete directly against the P5 in football---will be forced to labor under the same rules as defined and accepted by the other 22 much much poorer D1 conferences. There is no way in hell the other 22 D1 conferences are going to allow the G5 to adopt P5 rules and gain any sort of recruiting advantage over them.

This will be in court by day 2. The G5 wont buy into it and the NCAA will just trade one lawsuit for another. The easiest argument will be if the G5 can afford to do it and are willing to do it, then why is NCAA standing in the way of a better university experience by the G5 student athletes when they allow the same things to be done in the same division by the P5? Why are the G5 athletes less deserving of the same medical treatment or upgraded coaching as the P5 athletes? Good luck defending that suit. Dont know who would file the suit first---the G5 or a G5 athlete.

Recognizes the unique pressures and challenges faced by the ACC, the Big Ten, the Big 12, the Pac-12 and the SEC, in operating intercollegiate athletics programs that properly balance educational and athletics’ interests of student-athletes and institutions in the 21st Century.

I didn't find this rationale very convincing. The pressures are on the conferences who don't have as much money.
04-18-2014 03:39 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 03:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 02:04 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/....24.14.pdf

The agenda for next week's NCAA Board of Governors meeting details the new NCAA governance structure and what P5 autonomy really means.

The new structure isn't all that interesting, but it is notable that some AD's and student reps will have votes on the Council and Board of Directors.

The areas of autonomy for the P5 will fall into two categories:

Quote:Permissive legislation ? Designed to allow permissive use of resources by any member to advance the legitimate educational or athletics-related needs of student-athletes. Under this proposed governance model, permissive legislation that is developed and adopted among these institutions and conferences may also be adopted by the rest of Division I at each institution's respective discretion, or as determined by its conference.

Or

Actionable legislation ? Adopted and applied to the 65-member institutions to modify specified rules in a manner that enhances the student-athlete experience, or decreases athletics time demands or other burdens of student-athletes. These legislative changes that address student-athlete interests or experience will apply only to the five conferences and their 65-member institutions, although Division I members generally would be free to address the same or similar issues through legislation considered by the new Council ? on any "actionable" item, the 27 other conferences will have the option to adopt at the next Council meeting (instead of waiting for a full legislative cycle), through a nonweighted vote of the 27, rather than a vote of the full Council.

So basically, the idea is that autonomy will be granted to the P5, and certain items will allow adoption by other conferences at their discretion, but other items will require the other 27 conferences to adopt by majority vote.

As of now the scope of autonomy is this:

Permissive:
health and wellness issues
meals and nutrition (pretty much already passed across D1)
full cost of attendance scholarships
expenses for students and family members (e.g. comping admissions, postseason travel for students' families, etc.)
allowing loans for career insurance or allowing the school to provide such insurance
rules for agents and advisors
rules for allowing students to keep likeness for areas other than sports (e.g. allowing students to pursue music career, etc.)

Actionable:
rules related to terms of financial aid (e.g. making scholarships guaranteed, etc.)
ability to cover pre-enrollment expenses (e.g. transportation to enroll, academic support, medical expenses, etc.)
allowing for athletic "dead periods" (e.g. acadmeic redshirt, etc.)
changes to transfer rules within the P5
changes to recruiting rules
rules to better define coaching and support roles

Football is an area that falls automatically under the shared governance structure, meaning all football conferences would have the opportunity to vote on such rules and the P5 can't set those sorts of rules on their own.

Interesting that on the "actionable" that the G5 is at the mercy of the other 22 conferences.

Meaning the P5 will be able to redefine dead periods, academic "redshirts", pay for more costs related to attendance, change recruiting rules, change transfer rules, increase coaching staffing/redefine coaching roles---without any input from the rest of D1. Meanwhile, the 5 G5 conferences, who have to compete directly against the P5 in football---will be forced to labor under the same rules as defined and accepted by the other 22 much much poorer D1 conferences. There is no way in hell the other 22 D1 conferences are going to allow the G5 to adopt P5 rules and gain any sort of recruiting advantage over them.

This will be in court by day 2. The G5 wont buy into it and the NCAA will just trade one lawsuit for another. The easiest argument will be if the G5 can afford to do it and are willing to do it, then why is NCAA standing in the way of a better university experience by the G5 student athletes when they allow the same things to be done in the same division by the P5? Why are the G5 athletes less deserving of the same medical treatment or upgraded coaching as the P5 athletes? Good luck defending that suit. Dont know who would file the suit first---the G5 or a G5 athlete.

Recognizes the unique pressures and challenges faced by the ACC, the Big Ten, the Big 12, the Pac-12 and the SEC, in operating intercollegiate athletics programs that properly balance educational and athletics’ interests of student-athletes and institutions in the 21st Century.

I didn't find this rationale very convincing. The pressures are on the conferences who don't have as much money.

The current law suits working their way through courts are filed against the power conferences and have (thus far) ignored the G5.

Of new concern now that I have had more time to read the document---scholarship limits for football apparently fall under autonomy as they are specifically excluded from "shared governance" powers.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2014 04:03 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-18-2014 03:41 PM
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Post: #11
RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 03:37 PM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 02:04 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/....24.14.pdf

The agenda for next week's NCAA Board of Governors meeting details the new NCAA governance structure and what P5 autonomy really means.

The new structure isn't all that interesting, but it is notable that some AD's and student reps will have votes on the Council and Board of Directors.

The areas of autonomy for the P5 will fall into two categories:

Quote:Permissive legislation ? Designed to allow permissive use of resources by any member to advance the legitimate educational or athletics-related needs of student-athletes. Under this proposed governance model, permissive legislation that is developed and adopted among these institutions and conferences may also be adopted by the rest of Division I at each institution's respective discretion, or as determined by its conference.

Or

Actionable legislation ? Adopted and applied to the 65-member institutions to modify specified rules in a manner that enhances the student-athlete experience, or decreases athletics time demands or other burdens of student-athletes. These legislative changes that address student-athlete interests or experience will apply only to the five conferences and their 65-member institutions, although Division I members generally would be free to address the same or similar issues through legislation considered by the new Council ? on any "actionable" item, the 27 other conferences will have the option to adopt at the next Council meeting (instead of waiting for a full legislative cycle), through a nonweighted vote of the 27, rather than a vote of the full Council.

So basically, the idea is that autonomy will be granted to the P5, and certain items will allow adoption by other conferences at their discretion, but other items will require the other 27 conferences to adopt by majority vote.

As of now the scope of autonomy is this:

Permissive:
health and wellness issues
meals and nutrition (pretty much already passed across D1)
full cost of attendance scholarships
expenses for students and family members (e.g. comping admissions, postseason travel for students' families, etc.)
allowing loans for career insurance or allowing the school to provide such insurance
rules for agents and advisors
rules for allowing students to keep likeness for areas other than sports (e.g. allowing students to pursue music career, etc.)

Actionable:
rules related to terms of financial aid (e.g. making scholarships guaranteed, etc.)
ability to cover pre-enrollment expenses (e.g. transportation to enroll, academic support, medical expenses, etc.)
allowing for athletic "dead periods" (e.g. acadmeic redshirt, etc.)
changes to transfer rules within the P5
changes to recruiting rules
rules to better define coaching and support roles

Football is an area that falls automatically under the shared governance structure, meaning all football conferences would have the opportunity to vote on such rules and the P5 can't set those sorts of rules on their own.

Interesting that on the "actionable" that the G5 is at the mercy of the other 22 conferences.

Meaning the P5 will be able to redefine dead periods, academic "redshirts", pay for more costs related to attendance, change recruiting rules, change transfer rules, increase coaching staffing/redefine coaching roles---without any input from the rest of D1. Meanwhile, the 5 G5 conferences, who have to compete directly against the P5 in football---will be forced to labor under the same rules as defined and accepted by the other 22 much much poorer D1 conferences. There is no way in hell the other 22 D1 conferences are going to allow the G5 to adopt P5 rules and gain any sort of recruiting advantage over them.

This will be in court by day 2. The G5 wont buy into it and the NCAA will just trade one lawsuit for another. The easiest argument will be if the G5 can afford to do it and are willing to do it, then why is NCAA standing in the way of a better university experience by the G5 student athletes when they allow the same things to be done in the same division by the P5? Why are the G5 athletes less deserving of the same medical treatment or upgraded coaching as the P5 athletes? Good luck defending that suit.

If what you are saying is what's proposed, you would be right. But it's not. The G5 conferences will be able to adopt any of the changes the P5 passes.

I read this the same way as Attackcoog, and it would be disastrous for the G5 schools. The P5 schools could vote to make all kinds of changes to increase financial aid, pay "per-enrollment expenses", liberalize transfer and recruiting rules, and add more "support roles" (academic counselors, life counselors, shoe counselors and lord knows what else), all of which would further increase their competitive advantage over the G5. At the same time, because these kinds of changes fall within the "Actionable" category, even G5 schools and conferences that were willing to incur the cost of making these changes would not be allowed to do so unless they were adopted by a "non-weighted vote" of all 27 non-P5 conferences. So in effect, the D1 non-football conferences would no longer be able to hold back the P5 from doing whatever they wanted to do, but could hold back the G5 from keeping pace with what the P5 do.

If that is the outcome, then forget the P5 breaking away from the NCAA; instead the G5 will have to break away, unless they can beat this travesty in court.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2014 04:03 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
04-18-2014 04:02 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
Why are FCS athletes less deserving?
04-18-2014 04:09 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 03:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Why are the G5 athletes less deserving of the same medical treatment or upgraded coaching as the P5 athletes? Good luck defending that suit.

Who are you going to sue? The P5 won't be preventing anyone else from paying for more medical treatment or insurance. If this is how it works, the non-P5 D-I conferences will vote. Just having different rules for different NCAA divisions or subdivisions can't be the basis of a lawsuit -- every NCAA division has different rules to some extent, as do FCS and FBS.

Also, if the lack of medical treatment/insurance (or nutritionist's advice, or whatever) somehow provides a real basis for an NCAA athlete's lawsuit, the athlete can go ahead and sue today. They don't have to wait for the non-P5 conferences to take a vote, because, as of today, no NCAA athlete has this hypothetical super-treatment available to them.
04-18-2014 04:23 PM
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GoAppsGo92 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 04:02 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:37 PM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 02:04 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/....24.14.pdf

The agenda for next week's NCAA Board of Governors meeting details the new NCAA governance structure and what P5 autonomy really means.

The new structure isn't all that interesting, but it is notable that some AD's and student reps will have votes on the Council and Board of Directors.

The areas of autonomy for the P5 will fall into two categories:


So basically, the idea is that autonomy will be granted to the P5, and certain items will allow adoption by other conferences at their discretion, but other items will require the other 27 conferences to adopt by majority vote.

As of now the scope of autonomy is this:

Permissive:
health and wellness issues
meals and nutrition (pretty much already passed across D1)
full cost of attendance scholarships
expenses for students and family members (e.g. comping admissions, postseason travel for students' families, etc.)
allowing loans for career insurance or allowing the school to provide such insurance
rules for agents and advisors
rules for allowing students to keep likeness for areas other than sports (e.g. allowing students to pursue music career, etc.)

Actionable:
rules related to terms of financial aid (e.g. making scholarships guaranteed, etc.)
ability to cover pre-enrollment expenses (e.g. transportation to enroll, academic support, medical expenses, etc.)
allowing for athletic "dead periods" (e.g. acadmeic redshirt, etc.)
changes to transfer rules within the P5
changes to recruiting rules
rules to better define coaching and support roles

Football is an area that falls automatically under the shared governance structure, meaning all football conferences would have the opportunity to vote on such rules and the P5 can't set those sorts of rules on their own.

Interesting that on the "actionable" that the G5 is at the mercy of the other 22 conferences.

Meaning the P5 will be able to redefine dead periods, academic "redshirts", pay for more costs related to attendance, change recruiting rules, change transfer rules, increase coaching staffing/redefine coaching roles---without any input from the rest of D1. Meanwhile, the 5 G5 conferences, who have to compete directly against the P5 in football---will be forced to labor under the same rules as defined and accepted by the other 22 much much poorer D1 conferences. There is no way in hell the other 22 D1 conferences are going to allow the G5 to adopt P5 rules and gain any sort of recruiting advantage over them.

This will be in court by day 2. The G5 wont buy into it and the NCAA will just trade one lawsuit for another. The easiest argument will be if the G5 can afford to do it and are willing to do it, then why is NCAA standing in the way of a better university experience by the G5 student athletes when they allow the same things to be done in the same division by the P5? Why are the G5 athletes less deserving of the same medical treatment or upgraded coaching as the P5 athletes? Good luck defending that suit.

If what you are saying is what's proposed, you would be right. But it's not. The G5 conferences will be able to adopt any of the changes the P5 passes.

I read this the same way as Attackcoog, and it would be disastrous for the G5 schools. The P5 schools could vote to make all kinds of changes to increase financial aid, pay "per-enrollment expenses", liberalize transfer and recruiting rules, and add more "support roles" (academic counselors, life counselors, shoe counselors and lord knows what else), all of which would further increase their competitive advantage over the G5. At the same time, because these kinds of changes fall within the "Actionable" category, even G5 schools and conferences that were willing to incur the cost of making these changes would not be allowed to do so unless they were adopted by a "non-weighted vote" of all 27 non-P5 conferences. So in effect, the D1 non-football conferences would no longer be able to hold back the P5 from doing whatever they wanted to do, but could hold back the G5 from keeping pace with what the P5 do.

If that is the outcome, then forget the P5 breaking away from the NCAA; instead the G5 will have to break away, unless they can beat this travesty in court.

The devil is in the details. All the big, sexy issues are in the permissive category. The actionable category, like the permissive category, requires a super-majority vote by the 65 member institutions, but the actionable category would likely be considered by the entire NCAA body as they affect every school and generally have less overall economic impact than the permissive category.

There is a lot in there to digest, and I expect there will and should be challenges... but there is a lot in the proposal besides the two paragraphs pulled in this thread... including the make up of the governing board and council as well as their powers that are worth a read as well.
04-18-2014 04:23 PM
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GoAppsGo92 Offline
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 04:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 03:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Why are the G5 athletes less deserving of the same medical treatment or upgraded coaching as the P5 athletes? Good luck defending that suit.

Who are you going to sue? The P5 won't be preventing anyone else from paying for more medical treatment or insurance. If this is how it works, the non-P5 D-I conferences will vote. Just having different rules for different NCAA divisions or subdivisions can't be the basis of a lawsuit -- every NCAA division has different rules to some extent, as do FCS and FBS.

Also, if the lack of medical treatment/insurance (or nutritionist's advice, or whatever) somehow provides a real basis for an NCAA athlete's lawsuit, the athlete can go ahead and sue today. They don't have to wait for the non-P5 conferences to take a vote, because, as of today, no NCAA athlete has this hypothetical super-treatment available to them.

That's the issue though. This legislation does not create a new division. This is a group of FBS schools that will have their vote weighted X4 and another group weighted X2. The P5 categories and how each can be adopted by the members of the G5 is the issue here, and I'm thinking the verbiage will have to be adjusted.
04-18-2014 04:27 PM
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
If the P5 have done their homework, in terms of crafting a deal that the Go5 will not just vote for but work to whip the vote for, then a lot of the things that the Go5 conferences will want to adopt in whole or in part will be in the permissive category.

And being in the permissive category, will likely be adopted pretty much across the board by the Go5, Big East, and A10, giving the Go5 substantial competitive advantages in BBall recruiting relative to the rest of Division 1 BBall schools.
04-18-2014 04:53 PM
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 04:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  If the P5 have done their homework, in terms of crafting a deal that the Go5 will not just vote for but work to whip the vote for, then a lot of the things that the Go5 conferences will want to adopt in whole or in part will be in the permissive category.

And being in the permissive category, will likely be adopted pretty much across the board by the Go5, Big East, and A10, giving the Go5 substantial competitive advantages in BBall recruiting relative to the rest of Division 1 BBall schools.

Actually the way to fix the legislation is simple. You simply eliminate the "actionable" category in autonomy. Each of the issues notatated in the "actionable" category must then either be moved to the "permissive" category or redefined as shared governance powers.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2014 05:24 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-18-2014 05:23 PM
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
Actionable items is the devil in the details.

If the G5 is barred from following the P5 lead, NCAA meetings may enter a new realm of ugliness.
04-18-2014 06:17 PM
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 06:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Actionable items is the devil in the details.

If the G5 is barred from following the P5 lead, NCAA meetings may enter a new realm of ugliness.

Did you notice that scholarship limits in football were not specifically mentioned as a "permissive or "actionable" power in autonomy, but ARE specifically excluded from shared governance. That's a HUGE issue and its an issue that was one of just two specific "deal killer" issues that came out of the January NCAA meetings. Those two deal killer issues were number of games in a season and scholarship limits.

What appears to have occurred is that the rest of D1 has decided to cede the football battlefield and draw the defensive lines outside of that area. The FCS schools know they could not afford to match the P5 schools anyway. Thus, they have given up that football territory and drawn the battle lines at protecting their basketball interests. Scholarship limits for basketball ARE included in SHARED governance--football scholarship limits are not. Additionally, they have left the G5 at the mercy of the 22 other D1 conferences in terms of matching any number of other smaller benefit packages that would further tilt the balance of recruiting power in favor of the P5 (lol...like they needed any help). It appears that the non-football/FCS conferences figure its bad enough to have 65 teams with a recruiting advantage over them---no need to make it 128.

The FCS and non-football conferences have decided to simply throw the G5 under the bus. I agree, this next meeting is likely to be very contentious. The best ally that the G5 have right now is their athletes. No reason that the G5's student athletes should be denied anything the P5 athletes receive if the G5 schools are willing to pay for it. That needs to be the public rallying cry.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2014 06:46 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-18-2014 06:34 PM
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RE: NCAA Details P5 autonomy
(04-18-2014 06:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-18-2014 06:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Actionable items is the devil in the details.

If the G5 is barred from following the P5 lead, NCAA meetings may enter a new realm of ugliness.

Did you notice that scholarship limits in football were not specifically mentioned as a "permissive or "actionable" power in autonomy, but ARE specifically excluded from shared governance. That's a HUGE issue and its an issue that was one of just two specific "deal killer" issues that came out of the January NCAA meetings. Those two deal killer issues were number of games in a season and scholarship limits.

What appears to have occurred is that the rest of D1 has decided to cede the football battlefield and draw the defensive lines outside of that area. The FCS schools know they could not afford to match the P5 schools anyway. Thus, they have given up that football territory and drawn the battle lines at protecting their basketball interests. Scholarship limits for basketball ARE included in SHARED governance--football scholarship limits are not. Additionally, they have left the G5 at the mercy of the 22 other D1 conferences in terms of matching any number of other smaller benefit packages that would further tilt the balance of recruiting power in favor of the P5 (lol...like they needed any help). It appears that the non-football/FCS conferences figure its bad enough to have 65 teams with a recruiting advantage over them---no need to make it 128.

The FCS and non-football conferences have decided to simply throw the G5 under the bus. I agree, this next meeting is likely to be very contentious. The best ally that the G5 have right now is their athletes. No reason that the G5's student athletes should be denied anything the P5 athletes receive if the G5 schools are willing to pay for it. That needs to be the public rallying cry.

They may be thinking that if they want to touch football limits they don't want FCS or I-AAA voting but by failing to assign it to either category it insures it is an FBS issue.

Most likely it didn't get assigned a category because it isn't something they intend to deal with at all.
04-18-2014 07:22 PM
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