Here's a sampling of comments about Sweden's single payer system:

"Sweden's problem is access to care. According to the Euro Health Consumer Index 2013, Swedish patients suffer from inordinately long wait times to get an appointment with a doctor, specialist treatment or even emergency care."

" Sweden's National Board of Health and Welfare reports that as of 2013, the average wait time (from referral to start of treatment) for "intermediary and high risk" prostate cancer is 220 days."

" A woman with colon cancer spent 12 years contesting a money-saving decision to deny an abdominal scan that would have found the cancer earlier. The denial-of-care decision was not made by an insurance company, but by the government health-care system and its policies."

"This waiting is what economists call rationing—the delay or even failure to provide care due to government budgetary decisions."

"This is why Swedes over the past two decades have been rushing to purchase medical coverage through private insurance, which guarantees and delivers timely and qualitative care."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10...reno64-wsj

Canada and the UK have web sites where anyone can go to determine how long they'll have to wait for any medical procedures.

Google Canada (or UK) medical wait times for yourself.

Not only that, but since the US and UK fully funds and provides for Sweden's national defense, they can afford these social experiments. Bottom line, we can't, and Putin is giving us a taste of what will happen when we start cutting into defense to try.

This is what many people fail to see about "free" or "socialized" health care....it's generally the same quality of anything else that's "free" or "socialize"...crappy and unreliable.

How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

(04-18-2014 04:18 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

The people who can't afford it go to the emergency room and get it for free.

The rest of us, usually same day for emergencies and a couple of weeks for a non-critical specialist. X-rays and MRIs are within a day or two.

Severe problems, such as heart bypasses and strokes, are taken care of within 24 hours.

(04-18-2014 11:10 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Canada and the UK have web sites where anyone can go to determine how long they'll have to wait for any medical procedures.

Google Canada (or UK) medical wait times for yourself.

You're partially right here. Since there is no singular healthcare system in Canada, you search by province.

(04-18-2014 04:54 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 11:10 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Canada and the UK have web sites where anyone can go to determine how long they'll have to wait for any medical procedures.

Google Canada (or UK) medical wait times for yourself.

You're partially right here. Since there is no singular healthcare system in Canada, you search by province.

Nope, I'm totally right. If you search "Canada wait times" the first link is to the Canadian Institute for Health Information, which consolidates data from all the provinces for 2013. You are correct in that if you want to check "today's wait times", you have to do it by province.

(04-18-2014 05:06 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 04:54 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 11:10 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Canada and the UK have web sites where anyone can go to determine how long they'll have to wait for any medical procedures.

Google Canada (or UK) medical wait times for yourself.

You're partially right here. Since there is no singular healthcare system in Canada, you search by province.

Nope, I'm totally right. If you search "Canada wait times" the first link is to the Canadian Institute for Health Information, which consolidates data from all the provinces.

Sorry, i thought it was confined by province. It seemed to be this way a few years ago.

(04-18-2014 04:25 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 04:18 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

The people who can't afford it go to the emergency room and get it for free.

The rest of us, usually same day for emergencies and a couple of weeks for a non-critical specialist. X-rays and MRIs are within a day or two.

Severe problems, such as heart bypasses and strokes, are taken care of within 24 hours.

What makes you think you can get treated for cancer for free at an emergency room? What makes you think you can get a heart bypass if you can't pay for it? Those things just aren't true.

(04-18-2014 04:18 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

Well, I can tell you that it doesn't take 220 days to treat prostate cancer in my part of the country. Usually within a week of diagnosis one of my patients is either having surgery or radiation, and we work with uninsured patients on prices all the time.

(04-18-2014 05:17 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 04:25 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 04:18 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

The people who can't afford it go to the emergency room and get it for free.

The rest of us, usually same day for emergencies and a couple of weeks for a non-critical specialist. X-rays and MRIs are within a day or two.

Severe problems, such as heart bypasses and strokes, are taken care of within 24 hours.

What makes you think you can get treated for cancer for free at an emergency room? What makes you think you can get a heart bypass if you can't pay for it? Those things just aren't true.

In almost 20 years I don't know one person who was not treated because they couldn't pay, not one.

And they enter the health stream through the ER, they don't actually get treated there.



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(04-18-2014 04:25 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 04:18 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

The people who can't afford it go to the emergency room and get it for free.

The rest of us, usually same day for emergencies and a couple of weeks for a non-critical specialist. X-rays and MRIs are within a day or two.

Severe problems, such as heart bypasses and strokes, are taken care of within 24 hours.

Does the emergency room cover chemo? Oh they don't. Oops. There's a limit on how much care is really provided by an emergency room.

I lived under an equitable medical system when I lived in the Netherlands. Everyone, myself included, loved it. And it was means based and mandatory.

The French are very happy with their system.

Americans like to hold Canada's system up as some awful example. But ask any Canadian if they'd like the US system, and the answer is almost unanimous..."hell no"

Spain was a nightmare. The UK's system has some issues, but is quite popular with its' people.

(04-18-2014 04:18 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

Why should someone who CAN afford it have to wait?

(04-19-2014 03:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 04:18 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

Why should someone who CAN afford it have to wait?

Because the left would say that isn't FAIR. They would rather have everyone wait than anyone get better treatment because they can afford to pay. However what they are setting up here in the end will mean that everyone but the wealthy will be waiting...the wealthy will always find the healthcare the need in a timely manner even if they have to travel to get it.

http://www.thelocal.se/20140117/hospital...ance-trend

"It's quicker to get a colleague back to work if you have an operation in two weeks' time rather than having to wait for a year," privately insured Anna Norlander told Sveriges Radio on Friday. "It's terrible that I, as a young person, don't feel I can trust the health care system to take care of me."

In the magical socialist world of Sweden they are moving to employer provided private healthcare because their current socialized system can't handles the demands.

I have seen this first had with friends who are Swedes but live in the US. There son had a very high fever and they took him to the hospital. e was seen immediately. When the same thing happened in Sweden prior to their moving to the US, their son was given Tylenol by the Emergency Room and they waited 8 HOURS in the waiting room to be seen.

(04-19-2014 09:03 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 03:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 04:18 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

Why should someone who CAN afford it have to wait?

Because the left would say that isn't FAIR. They would rather have everyone wait than anyone get better treatment because they can afford to pay.

There aren't enough resources to provide everyone with all the health care that he/she needs. Attempting to do so would bankrupt the economy. So you need some form of rationing. I think rationing by ability to pay is fairer than sticking everyone on a waiting list so that nobody gets timely care.

Quote:In the magical socialist world of Sweden they are moving to employer provided private healthcare because their current socialized system can't handles the demands.

Sweden is generally acknowledged to be the best single-provider system in the world. They have 6 million people, and their problem with delays is mammoth. Much worse than the Bismarcks.

The Swedes get good scores for costs and outcomes, but it's easy to get good scores for costs and outcomes when you stick people on waiting lists. Why outcomes? Because the people who did do so on the waiting list and don't count against them. The people who survive long enough to get treated are the stronger ones who are more likely to make it.

There is something inherently unique about the human race. It cannot learn from past mistakes.

What makes you think you can get treated for cancer for free at an emergency room? What makes you think you can get a heart bypass if you can't pay for it? Those things just aren't true.
[/quote]


I know of two people that didn't have insurance and still got cancer treatments. They might start off in the emergency room and get sent someplace else within the hospital.

So there.

(04-19-2014 03:21 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 04:25 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(04-18-2014 04:18 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  How long is the average wait time in the USA? Please include those who delay care because they can't afford it.

The people who can't afford it go to the emergency room and get it for free.

The rest of us, usually same day for emergencies and a couple of weeks for a non-critical specialist. X-rays and MRIs are within a day or two.

Severe problems, such as heart bypasses and strokes, are taken care of within 24 hours.

Does the emergency room cover chemo? Oh they don't. Oops. There's a limit on how much care is really provided by an emergency room.

I lived under an equitable medical system when I lived in the Netherlands. Everyone, myself included, loved it. And it was means based and mandatory.

The French are very happy with their system.

Americans like to hold Canada's system up as some awful example. But ask any Canadian if they'd like the US system, and the answer is almost unanimous..."hell no"

Spain was a nightmare. The UK's system has some issues, but is quite popular with its' people.

Not a Canadian citizen, but had resident status and partook in the system in Quebec.

The reason that your everyday Canadian wouldn't want to go to the US system is that they're willing to take the negatives in return for having it for free.

Can you imagine your everyday American being told that they'll maybe be able to have an MRI in 90 days? It wouldn't go over so well.

Now, the ability to just have a free (at least on the surface) checkup the doctor's office and cheaper prescriptions was great, but you'd better be going for that checkup or something dire to get really good service. An ACL sprain, a hernia, or any other middling issue like that is when you don't want to depend on that system.

I'd like a Bismarck system in my state.