(04-17-2014 08:22 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 07:35 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Peter Theil: "Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible."

Jean Jacques Rousseau (1712-1778) stated that liberty and equality were incompatible. Not really a new idea.

"freedom" may be a rough analog for "liberty", but "democracy" and "equality" are not even close to being similar concepts.

The Austrian (but living in U.K. and U.S.) author Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn published a book titled "Liberty or Equality?" in 1952 that set out the inherent/inevitable conflict between majority-rule and human freedom. The libertarian-conservative William F Buckley frequently cited that book as being one that greatly shaped his outlook on politics.

I miss Buckley. No one has taken his place.

(04-17-2014 01:27 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-16-2014 08:25 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Here is a statement that libertarians need to adopt across the board.

"In a society where everything goes, everything eventually does."

It would help broaden their support.

Do you believe that libertarians believe that everything should be legal?

If not, then don't paint with such a broad brush.

By using this forum as a sample...yes. I basically see the modern libertarian movement lock step with most of what the left wants.

However, I see a lot of disunity and misinterpretation among libertarians on what exactly your party stands for. Some are so far left they actually promote govt control without even knowing it...then sport the Gadsen flag. It's quite bizarre. It also raises my suspicion that the movement may serve a purpose more in tune with Occupy. Just a distraction or cog in the wheel.

(04-17-2014 08:53 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 01:27 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-16-2014 08:25 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Here is a statement that libertarians need to adopt across the board.

"In a society where everything goes, everything eventually does."

It would help broaden their support.

Do you believe that libertarians believe that everything should be legal?

If not, then don't paint with such a broad brush.

By using this forum as a sample...yes. I basically see the modern libertarian movement lock step with most of what the left wants.

However, I see a lot of disunity and misinterpretation among libertarians on what exactly your party stands for. Some are so far left they actually promote govt control without even knowing it...then sport the Gadsen flag. It's quite bizarre. It also raises my suspicion that the movement may serve a purpose more in tune with Occupy. Just a distraction or cog in the wheel.

Evidently you are under the impression Liberty minded people care about being in a gang. I understand your confusion.

(04-17-2014 08:24 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 08:22 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 07:35 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Peter Theil: "Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible."

Jean Jacques Rousseau (1712-1778) stated that liberty and equality were incompatible. Not really a new idea.

"freedom" may be a rough analog for "liberty", but "democracy" and "equality" are not even close to being similar concepts.

The Austrian (but living in U.K. and U.S.) author Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn published a book titled "Liberty or Equality?" in 1952 that set out the inherent/inevitable conflict between majority-rule and human freedom. The libertarian-conservative William F Buckley frequently cited that book as being one that greatly shaped his outlook on politics.

I miss Buckley. No one has taken his place.

(04-17-2014 11:13 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 08:53 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 01:27 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-16-2014 08:25 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Here is a statement that libertarians need to adopt across the board.

"In a society where everything goes, everything eventually does."

It would help broaden their support.

Do you believe that libertarians believe that everything should be legal?

If not, then don't paint with such a broad brush.

By using this forum as a sample...yes. I basically see the modern libertarian movement lock step with most of what the left wants.

However, I see a lot of disunity and misinterpretation among libertarians on what exactly your party stands for. Some are so far left they actually promote govt control without even knowing it...then sport the Gadsen flag. It's quite bizarre. It also raises my suspicion that the movement may serve a purpose more in tune with Occupy. Just a distraction or cog in the wheel.

Evidently you are under the impression Liberty minded people care about being in a gang. I understand your confusion.

The confusion is not about me. I get what you are supposed to be. I am saying it doesn't appear that way. To become mainstream and not a populous movement, the libertarians will have to gain the public's trust and tweak their platform. Some of us feel that some laws are good.

(04-17-2014 11:18 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 11:13 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 08:53 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 01:27 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(04-16-2014 08:25 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Here is a statement that libertarians need to adopt across the board.

"In a society where everything goes, everything eventually does."

It would help broaden their support.

Do you believe that libertarians believe that everything should be legal?

If not, then don't paint with such a broad brush.

By using this forum as a sample...yes. I basically see the modern libertarian movement lock step with most of what the left wants.

However, I see a lot of disunity and misinterpretation among libertarians on what exactly your party stands for. Some are so far left they actually promote govt control without even knowing it...then sport the Gadsen flag. It's quite bizarre. It also raises my suspicion that the movement may serve a purpose more in tune with Occupy. Just a distraction or cog in the wheel.

Evidently you are under the impression Liberty minded people care about being in a gang. I understand your confusion.

The confusion is not about me. I get what you are supposed to be. I am saying it doesn't appear that way. To become mainstream and not a populous movement, the libertarians will have to gain the public's trust and tweak their platform. Some of us feel that some laws are good.

Liberty minded folks support plenty of laws...just not those designed to protect people from themselves....those pesky laws that do nothing but seek to control the lives of people and do not prevent and deter actual crimes(theft,fraud,violence and destruction of property). I can only speak for myself..but..I support even harsher penalties for actual crime. I'm talking close to medieval punishments.

(04-17-2014 11:31 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 11:18 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 11:13 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 08:53 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 01:27 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Do you believe that libertarians believe that everything should be legal?

If not, then don't paint with such a broad brush.

By using this forum as a sample...yes. I basically see the modern libertarian movement lock step with most of what the left wants.

However, I see a lot of disunity and misinterpretation among libertarians on what exactly your party stands for. Some are so far left they actually promote govt control without even knowing it...then sport the Gadsen flag. It's quite bizarre. It also raises my suspicion that the movement may serve a purpose more in tune with Occupy. Just a distraction or cog in the wheel.

Evidently you are under the impression Liberty minded people care about being in a gang. I understand your confusion.

The confusion is not about me. I get what you are supposed to be. I am saying it doesn't appear that way. To become mainstream and not a populous movement, the libertarians will have to gain the public's trust and tweak their platform. Some of us feel that some laws are good.

Liberty minded folks support plenty of laws...just not those designed to protect people from themselves....those pesky laws that do nothing but seek to control the lives of people and do not prevent and deter actual crimes(theft,fraud,violence and destruction of property). I can only speak for myself..but..I support even harsher penalties for actual crime. I'm talking close to medieval punishments.

but that is the opinion of many in your party...not necessarily true. What you see as as a case of personal liberty, others see as a necessity for a safe society.

(04-17-2014 11:33 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 11:31 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 11:18 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 11:13 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 08:53 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  By using this forum as a sample...yes. I basically see the modern libertarian movement lock step with most of what the left wants.

However, I see a lot of disunity and misinterpretation among libertarians on what exactly your party stands for. Some are so far left they actually promote govt control without even knowing it...then sport the Gadsen flag. It's quite bizarre. It also raises my suspicion that the movement may serve a purpose more in tune with Occupy. Just a distraction or cog in the wheel.

Evidently you are under the impression Liberty minded people care about being in a gang. I understand your confusion.

The confusion is not about me. I get what you are supposed to be. I am saying it doesn't appear that way. To become mainstream and not a populous movement, the libertarians will have to gain the public's trust and tweak their platform. Some of us feel that some laws are good.

Liberty minded folks support plenty of laws...just not those designed to protect people from themselves....those pesky laws that do nothing but seek to control the lives of people and do not prevent and deter actual crimes(theft,fraud,violence and destruction of property). I can only speak for myself..but..I support even harsher penalties for actual crime. I'm talking close to medieval punishments.

but that is the opinion of many in your party...not necessarily true. What you see as as a case of personal liberty, others see as a necessity for a safe society.

There lies the conundrum. May of us see what you think as necessary as an intrusion upon our personal liberties. Personally..I am open to a limited amount of it. The problem is that it never seems to be limited. It just grows and grows. The evidence of this is indisputable.

For the record. I don't belong to any gang. I have always been a registered "unaffiliated" in NC.