(04-17-2014 08:48 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 08:34 AM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  Toxicology came back negative, even for alcohol. She claimed she was drunk.

She also did not cooperate with investigators until it hit the news and requested that everything be dropped.

Really? You just make FSU look worse. She was discouraged from pursuing by the police.

Even the police version says she was intimidated because Winston was a BMOC.

(04-17-2014 02:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 02:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  When did it become the responsibility of schools to conduct criminal investigations? What would we expect them to find that police would not? And how credible would we consider their findings, whatever they were? Wouldn't we always assume they were biased?

There's plenty of room for blame in how this was handled. I'm just not sure FSU is where it should be directed.

Title IX. And the Clery Act which is where Penn St. is still in some trouble for the Sandusky matter. There's some discussion on this report on Missouri's mishandling of their swimmer's rape:
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...icide-case

That's a far cry from requiring a criminal investigation by the school. Their obligation to report this to the police pretty much ends when the police know about it before they do. This incident didn't happen on campus. If FSU had reported this to the student body at large in order to presumably warn them that Winston might be a sexual predator, they woulkd surely have opened themselves up to one whopper of a lawsuit by Winston for defamation of character.

Laws like the Clery Act are often well-meaning, but create more problems than they solve.

(04-17-2014 03:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 02:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 02:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  When did it become the responsibility of schools to conduct criminal investigations? What would we expect them to find that police would not? And how credible would we consider their findings, whatever they were? Wouldn't we always assume they were biased?

There's plenty of room for blame in how this was handled. I'm just not sure FSU is where it should be directed.

Title IX. And the Clery Act which is where Penn St. is still in some trouble for the Sandusky matter. There's some discussion on this report on Missouri's mishandling of their swimmer's rape:
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...icide-case

That's a far cry from requiring a criminal investigation by the school. Their obligation to report this to the police pretty much ends when the police know about it before they do. This incident didn't happen on campus. If FSU had reported this to the student body at large in order to presumably warn them that Winston might be a sexual predator, they woulkd surely have opened themselves up to one whopper of a lawsuit by Winston for defamation of character.

Laws like the Clery Act are often well-meaning, but create more problems than they solve.

Read the articles. FSU is in trouble over this.

Clery Act is a VERY good law. Universities were hiding their issues, whether it be rapes or armed robberies. Students were unaware. Now they are forced to be transparent.

(04-17-2014 02:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 02:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  When did it become the responsibility of schools to conduct criminal investigations? What would we expect them to find that police would not? And how credible would we consider their findings, whatever they were? Wouldn't we always assume they were biased?

There's plenty of room for blame in how this was handled. I'm just not sure FSU is where it should be directed.

Title IX. And the Clery Act which is where Penn St. is still in some trouble for the Sandusky matter. There's some discussion on this report on Missouri's mishandling of their swimmer's rape:
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...icide-case

And go figure, PSU hired a football coach coming off a rape scandal and its new university president-in-waiting apparently presided over another rape cover-up scandal. And people think something has changed there?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attyt...rup-U.html

(04-17-2014 06:17 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 02:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 02:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  When did it become the responsibility of schools to conduct criminal investigations? What would we expect them to find that police would not? And how credible would we consider their findings, whatever they were? Wouldn't we always assume they were biased?

There's plenty of room for blame in how this was handled. I'm just not sure FSU is where it should be directed.

Title IX. And the Clery Act which is where Penn St. is still in some trouble for the Sandusky matter. There's some discussion on this report on Missouri's mishandling of their swimmer's rape:
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...icide-case

And go figure, PSU hired a football coach coming off a rape scandal and its new university president-in-waiting apparently presided over another rape cover-up scandal. And people think something has changed there?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attyt...rup-U.html

It was astounding they hired Franklin. They just really can't be associated with him if, however unlikely, the Vandy thing blows up. And the guy is a bit of a jerk anyway. They don't need the bad pub he will sooner or later create. It would be one thing if Sandusky never happened.

(04-17-2014 06:17 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  And go figure, PSU hired a football coach coming off a rape scandal and its new university president-in-waiting apparently presided over another rape cover-up scandal. And people think something has changed there?

(04-17-2014 06:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  It was astounding they hired Franklin. They just really can't be associated with him if, however unlikely, the Vandy thing blows up. And the guy is a bit of a jerk anyway. They don't need the bad pub he will sooner or later create. It would be one thing if Sandusky never happened.

A part of me is still stunned that Penn State football wasn't given the death penalty -- an absence of 2 or 3 years would have been justified and appropriate, IMHO. But obviously that didn't happen, and so presumably the NCAA will never give any school the death penalty for any reason from now on.

Read the full article. Wow. "Tainted Title II."

Why should FSU investigate an off campus issue? I believe we have police departments for that. If anyone dropped the ball it was the police. All a university can do is act upon facts as obtained by a police investigation. In this case the facts still seem to be missing...

(04-17-2014 06:17 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 02:53 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 02:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  When did it become the responsibility of schools to conduct criminal investigations? What would we expect them to find that police would not? And how credible would we consider their findings, whatever they were? Wouldn't we always assume they were biased?

There's plenty of room for blame in how this was handled. I'm just not sure FSU is where it should be directed.

Title IX. And the Clery Act which is where Penn St. is still in some trouble for the Sandusky matter. There's some discussion on this report on Missouri's mishandling of their swimmer's rape:
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...icide-case

And go figure, PSU hired a football coach coming off a rape scandal and its new university president-in-waiting apparently presided over another rape cover-up scandal. And people think something has changed there?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attyt...rup-U.html

It's astonishing how unfathomably little PSU cares and/or has changed.

I was once in a class where a student said that she had more free speech when she lived in the Soviet Union than she did in SC. Now Joe is dead and has been turned into a saint, so, judging by what's written in the PSU BoT election propaganda, it's only gotten worse.

My alma mater NEEDS a 4 year death penalty to heal. It really, really needs an identity outside of football and beer...for it's own sake. Unfortunately, there is too much institutional resistance for the university to save itself, and the NCAA lacks the political will/power to effectively regulate/oversee collegiate athletics that are associated with an elite football program.

(04-17-2014 09:37 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(04-17-2014 06:17 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  And go figure, PSU hired a football coach coming off a rape scandal and its new university president-in-waiting apparently presided over another rape cover-up scandal. And people think something has changed there?

(04-17-2014 06:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  It was astounding they hired Franklin. They just really can't be associated with him if, however unlikely, the Vandy thing blows up. And the guy is a bit of a jerk anyway. They don't need the bad pub he will sooner or later create. It would be one thing if Sandusky never happened.

A part of me is still stunned that Penn State football wasn't given the death penalty -- an absence of 2 or 3 years would have been justified and appropriate, IMHO. But obviously that didn't happen, and so presumably the NCAA will never give any school the death penalty for any reason from now on.

I'm not sure if the NCAA will ever give death again, but I am pretty certain that it will never give death to a major program. This is sad, but I think it's true. The only schools that need to worry about the death penalty are the g5 schools.

The P5 schools make too much money and/or are too well connected.

(04-16-2014 12:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The NY Times published an article showing that FSU conducted no investigation of the rape claims against infamous Jameis, and even that clown prosecutor Meggs says the police inquiry was botched and almost nonexistent.

FSU is a joke school and their national title is ridiculous. Jameis should not be applauded by anyone.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

The event did not happen at the school, and they brought her to the police. No one even knew who it was, including her until months later. I will agree the Tally police Dept didn't do their job, but the school had no business being involved in a crime that happened off campus.

(04-19-2014 06:52 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-16-2014 12:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The NY Times published an article showing that FSU conducted no investigation of the rape claims against infamous Jameis, and even that clown prosecutor Meggs says the police inquiry was botched and almost nonexistent.

FSU is a joke school and their national title is ridiculous. Jameis should not be applauded by anyone.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

The event did not happen at the school, and they brought her to the police. No one even knew who it was, including her until months later. I will agree the Tally police Dept didn't do their job, but the school had no business being involved in a crime that happened off campus.

Thank you...Game Over... Oh, one more thing. Of course she has filed a civil suit. I guess money make the pain go away, if there was ever any pain, which I doubt, and this from a father of two daughters.

(04-19-2014 11:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 06:52 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-16-2014 12:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The NY Times published an article showing that FSU conducted no investigation of the rape claims against infamous Jameis, and even that clown prosecutor Meggs says the police inquiry was botched and almost nonexistent.

FSU is a joke school and their national title is ridiculous. Jameis should not be applauded by anyone.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

The event did not happen at the school, and they brought her to the police. No one even knew who it was, including her until months later. I will agree the Tally police Dept didn't do their job, but the school had no business being involved in a crime that happened off campus.

Thank you...Game Over... Oh, one more thing. Of course she has filed a civil suit. I guess money make the pain go away, if there was ever any pain, which I doubt, and this from a father of two daughters.

Mizzou and FSU? I wouldn't let my daughter go to either of those places unless there was a real change. I see you people attacking the victim at Missouri (no doubt whatsoever) and the alleged victim at FSU. Really pitiful.

(04-20-2014 12:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 11:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 06:52 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-16-2014 12:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The NY Times published an article showing that FSU conducted no investigation of the rape claims against infamous Jameis, and even that clown prosecutor Meggs says the police inquiry was botched and almost nonexistent.

FSU is a joke school and their national title is ridiculous. Jameis should not be applauded by anyone.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

The event did not happen at the school, and they brought her to the police. No one even knew who it was, including her until months later. I will agree the Tally police Dept didn't do their job, but the school had no business being involved in a crime that happened off campus.

Thank you...Game Over... Oh, one more thing. Of course she has filed a civil suit. I guess money make the pain go away, if there was ever any pain, which I doubt, and this from a father of two daughters.

Mizzou and FSU? I wouldn't let my daughter go to either of those places unless there was a real change. I see you people attacking the victim at Missouri (no doubt whatsoever) and the alleged victim at FSU. Really pitiful.

I would make sure my daughter was taught not to go home at 3AM with a boy she didn't know, or boys... As far as Missouri goes, he was kicked off the team. What else do you want? And for that matter, who knows that whole story? I was very quick to applaud the coach for kicking DGB off the team. Anyone on the SEC board will tell you that... If DGB assaulted this girl I hope he goes to prison. If Mizzou goes 5-7 this year, so be it. Do you have some inside connection with Mizzou fans? As far as FSU goes, there are no plausible facts regarding a crime. Of course she is filing a civil suit to make sure she has money to party in the future. Yes that is cruel but those are the real facts. Because she cries rape doesn't make it real...especially when her boyfriend is in the room.

(04-20-2014 01:33 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 12:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 11:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 06:52 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-16-2014 12:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The NY Times published an article showing that FSU conducted no investigation of the rape claims against infamous Jameis, and even that clown prosecutor Meggs says the police inquiry was botched and almost nonexistent.

FSU is a joke school and their national title is ridiculous. Jameis should not be applauded by anyone.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

The event did not happen at the school, and they brought her to the police. No one even knew who it was, including her until months later. I will agree the Tally police Dept didn't do their job, but the school had no business being involved in a crime that happened off campus.

Thank you...Game Over... Oh, one more thing. Of course she has filed a civil suit. I guess money make the pain go away, if there was ever any pain, which I doubt, and this from a father of two daughters.

Mizzou and FSU? I wouldn't let my daughter go to either of those places unless there was a real change. I see you people attacking the victim at Missouri (no doubt whatsoever) and the alleged victim at FSU. Really pitiful.

I would make sure my daughter was taught not to go home at 3AM with a boy she didn't know, or boys... As far as Missouri goes, he was kicked off the team. What else do you want? And for that matter, who knows that whole story? I was very quick to applaud the coach for kicking DGB off the team. Anyone on the SEC board will tell you that... If DGB assaulted this girl I hope he goes to prison. If Mizzou goes 5-7 this year, so be it. Do you have some inside connection with Mizzou fans? As far as FSU goes, there are no plausible facts regarding a crime. Of course she is filing a civil suit to make sure she has money to party in the future. Yes that is cruel but those are the real facts. Because she cries rape doesn't make it real...especially when her boyfriend is in the room.

The issue at FSU isn't Winston's guilt or innocence. Its the handling (or non-handling) of the case by the police and university. Just read the article.

It should be handled the way San Antonio handled the rape charges against the two Texas players at the Alamo Bowl. The young lady invited the two players up to her room from the bar. She didn't really remember how the one ended up having sex with her (the other was sitting beside the bed), just that she realized it was happening. When her roommate returned she encouraged the young lady to call the police. The police came, talked to her, picked up the two players, interviewed them and took DNA samples all the same night. Texas sent them home from the Alamo Bowl and they were suspended until there was further resolution. One of them, the one who did not have sex with her, was the ONLY Texas backup QB. If the starter was injured in the Alamo Bowl, they were going to have to rely on the punter who hadn't played QB since HS. The players were re-instated approximately 3 weeks later when the police in San Antonio decided they had insufficient evidence to prosecute.

Contrast that to Tallahassee in the NYT article and to FSU's response.

(04-20-2014 02:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 01:33 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 12:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 11:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 06:52 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  The event did not happen at the school, and they brought her to the police. No one even knew who it was, including her until months later. I will agree the Tally police Dept didn't do their job, but the school had no business being involved in a crime that happened off campus.

Thank you...Game Over... Oh, one more thing. Of course she has filed a civil suit. I guess money make the pain go away, if there was ever any pain, which I doubt, and this from a father of two daughters.

Mizzou and FSU? I wouldn't let my daughter go to either of those places unless there was a real change. I see you people attacking the victim at Missouri (no doubt whatsoever) and the alleged victim at FSU. Really pitiful.

I would make sure my daughter was taught not to go home at 3AM with a boy she didn't know, or boys... As far as Missouri goes, he was kicked off the team. What else do you want? And for that matter, who knows that whole story? I was very quick to applaud the coach for kicking DGB off the team. Anyone on the SEC board will tell you that... If DGB assaulted this girl I hope he goes to prison. If Mizzou goes 5-7 this year, so be it. Do you have some inside connection with Mizzou fans? As far as FSU goes, there are no plausible facts regarding a crime. Of course she is filing a civil suit to make sure she has money to party in the future. Yes that is cruel but those are the real facts. Because she cries rape doesn't make it real...especially when her boyfriend is in the room.

The issue at FSU isn't Winston's guilt or innocence. Its the handling (or non-handling) of the case by the police and university. Just read the article.

It should be handled the way San Antonio handled the rape charges against the two Texas players at the Alamo Bowl. The young lady invited the two players up to her room from the bar. She didn't really remember how the one ended up having sex with her (the other was sitting beside the bed), just that she realized it was happening. When her roommate returned she encouraged the young lady to call the police. The police came, talked to her, picked up the two players, interviewed them and took DNA samples all the same night. Texas sent them home from the Alamo Bowl and they were suspended until there was further resolution. One of them, the one who did not have sex with her, was the ONLY Texas backup QB. If the starter was injured in the Alamo Bowl, they were going to have to rely on the punter who hadn't played QB since HS. The players were re-instated approximately 3 weeks later when the police in San Antonio decided they had insufficient evidence to prosecute.

Contrast that to Tallahassee in the NYT article and to FSU's response.

This thread is a slam against FSU for NOT investigating the incident. I am glad you finally came around to the fact the police, if anybody, botched this, and the university has zero power to conduct a criminal investigation off campus.

(04-20-2014 10:31 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 02:55 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 01:33 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 12:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 11:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Thank you...Game Over... Oh, one more thing. Of course she has filed a civil suit. I guess money make the pain go away, if there was ever any pain, which I doubt, and this from a father of two daughters.

Mizzou and FSU? I wouldn't let my daughter go to either of those places unless there was a real change. I see you people attacking the victim at Missouri (no doubt whatsoever) and the alleged victim at FSU. Really pitiful.

I would make sure my daughter was taught not to go home at 3AM with a boy she didn't know, or boys... As far as Missouri goes, he was kicked off the team. What else do you want? And for that matter, who knows that whole story? I was very quick to applaud the coach for kicking DGB off the team. Anyone on the SEC board will tell you that... If DGB assaulted this girl I hope he goes to prison. If Mizzou goes 5-7 this year, so be it. Do you have some inside connection with Mizzou fans? As far as FSU goes, there are no plausible facts regarding a crime. Of course she is filing a civil suit to make sure she has money to party in the future. Yes that is cruel but those are the real facts. Because she cries rape doesn't make it real...especially when her boyfriend is in the room.

The issue at FSU isn't Winston's guilt or innocence. Its the handling (or non-handling) of the case by the police and university. Just read the article.

It should be handled the way San Antonio handled the rape charges against the two Texas players at the Alamo Bowl. The young lady invited the two players up to her room from the bar. She didn't really remember how the one ended up having sex with her (the other was sitting beside the bed), just that she realized it was happening. When her roommate returned she encouraged the young lady to call the police. The police came, talked to her, picked up the two players, interviewed them and took DNA samples all the same night. Texas sent them home from the Alamo Bowl and they were suspended until there was further resolution. One of them, the one who did not have sex with her, was the ONLY Texas backup QB. If the starter was injured in the Alamo Bowl, they were going to have to rely on the punter who hadn't played QB since HS. The players were re-instated approximately 3 weeks later when the police in San Antonio decided they had insufficient evidence to prosecute.

Contrast that to Tallahassee in the NYT article and to FSU's response.

This thread is a slam against FSU for NOT investigating the incident. I am glad you finally came around to the fact the police, if anybody, botched this, and the university has zero power to conduct a criminal investigation off campus.

The linked article says a member of the FSU AD called the police about the case in January 2013 and didn't do anything for a year. Both the Tallahassee police and FSU failed. And FSU didn't follow policy on their long delayed investigation. They called in Winston without notifying the accuser. Winston took the 5th. FSU said "case closed, no evidence" and didn't notify the accuser. It was a joke.

Miami, FSU, UNC... Looks like the SEC has passed the mantle of Shadiest Conference to the ACC.

(04-21-2014 07:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  The linked article says a member of the FSU AD called the police about the case in January 2013 and didn't do anything for a year. Both the Tallahassee police and FSU failed. And FSU didn't follow policy on their long delayed investigation. They called in Winston without notifying the accuser. Winston took the 5th. FSU said "case closed, no evidence" and didn't notify the accuser. It was a joke.

Sure they did something. They took the "kids will be kids" approach. It's SOP at all the big universities. Everybody's a drunk, horny goon and there's no innocence to be had anywhere; we could all learn something from this. A far cry from the real system, which, I guess is why schools get so utterly angry when they circumvent it for the real authorities, or, like in this case, are forced to get involved.

(04-20-2014 01:33 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 12:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 11:24 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-19-2014 06:52 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-16-2014 12:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The NY Times published an article showing that FSU conducted no investigation of the rape claims against infamous Jameis, and even that clown prosecutor Meggs says the police inquiry was botched and almost nonexistent.

FSU is a joke school and their national title is ridiculous. Jameis should not be applauded by anyone.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

The event did not happen at the school, and they brought her to the police. No one even knew who it was, including her until months later. I will agree the Tally police Dept didn't do their job, but the school had no business being involved in a crime that happened off campus.

Thank you...Game Over... Oh, one more thing. Of course she has filed a civil suit. I guess money make the pain go away, if there was ever any pain, which I doubt, and this from a father of two daughters.

Mizzou and FSU? I wouldn't let my daughter go to either of those places unless there was a real change. I see you people attacking the victim at Missouri (no doubt whatsoever) and the alleged victim at FSU. Really pitiful.

I would make sure my daughter was taught not to go home at 3AM with a boy she didn't know, or boys... As far as Missouri goes, he was kicked off the team. What else do you want? And for that matter, who knows that whole story? I was very quick to applaud the coach for kicking DGB off the team. Anyone on the SEC board will tell you that... If DGB assaulted this girl I hope he goes to prison. If Mizzou goes 5-7 this year, so be it. Do you have some inside connection with Mizzou fans? As far as FSU goes, there are no plausible facts regarding a crime.

That's because the police completely botched the investigation, as even Meggs said:

“They just missed all the basic fundamental stuff that you are supposed to do,” Mr. Meggs said in a recent interview.

Good Lord you sad FSU defenders will squirm and squirm, won't you?