(04-29-2014 10:25 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 08:53 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 08:37 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-28-2014 06:57 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  Finally - your use of the golf course is a bad analogy. Its been said many times in this thread that your consultant reports what you want them to. The city of Harrisonburg taking out bonds to buy land and build a golf course was a bad idea from the very start. Besides the question of whether operating a golf course is a Government service, the Harrisonburg area has more public golf courses (including one owned by a large JMU supporter) than the area I live in despite 1/20th of the population. In addition, participation in golf has been flat or even declining for the last 20 years. Seems it was more of a vanity project than anything else. Seems everyone saw that but the council members. Seems the leadership who voted to build it didn't listen to their constituency.

Ah contraire...the golf course analogy is spot on.

Isn't the desired move to FBS (when it gets right down to it) really just a "vanity project"?

I say let those who want it pay for it.

Yeah it is not like football/athletics is not one of the most important marketing arms for making JMU a national university or anything ---- I thought being a national university was one of the stated goals by Alger. Playing FBS football is a 'must' for being a national university.

It isn’t quite a “must”, there are plenty of schools that are national universities that don’t play FBS football, but they all have other factors that give them the national standing beside football. Examples would be schools like Georgetown University (Law School, Med School, basketball), Yale (Law School, Business School), Johns Hopkins (Med School, renowned Lacrosse), CalTech & MIT (Science and Technology centers of excellence), UC Davis (Agriculture and Science) etc. For a school like JMU which isn’t world renowned for anything having an FBS football team would certainly help put them on the map to get to the “national university” level, but a Law School and expanded graduate level Business School would be pretty critical to achieving that as well.

Don't hold your breath about us achieving national university either, we're on a road to nowhere it appears.

I have no desire to go FBS. I want JMU to raise their endowment and increase the % of people who give so that they can lower student fees, pay professors more and raise the national profile of the university.

There are many ways to do this. FBS is one possible way. Seems to me that since they spent $62M on a stadium, they might lean that way. It seems the least expensive (moving forward) and easiest path. Certainly that money could have gone to other areas to accomplish the goal.

(04-28-2014 10:31 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  I laugh (LOL ?) Every time someone mentions Birdsong set all kinds of records last year. His records were based on cumulative stats as a result of higher passing attempts.
His efficiency stats were mediocre as he ranked 8th in the CAA as a passing qb. He was 6th in accuracy. He was the absolute worst in interceptions. Keep in mind he has never been the starting QB on a team that had a winning record in high school or college. It isn't a coincidence.
He was a work in progress and IMO had potential to be good in the future especially if allowed to be a double threat, but he didn't play his career out.

Let's be honest in our assessments. The Dukes lost a mediocre starting qb/excellent backup qb. It most definitely hurts the Dukes because of decreased competition for PT and the pink elephant injury factor. If Vad Lee goes down with a football injury, this season is screwed.

The Dukes lost a QB who was mediocre starting qb/excellent backup qb while playing as a true Soph and injured most of the season in 2013 who was liable to be much improved and a good starting QB in 2014.

(04-29-2014 08:53 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Playing FBS football is a 'must' for being a national university.

This is one of your dumber posts.

Tell it to Harvard, MIT, or closer to home, tell it to our near, dear neighbor W&M. FB is a "nice-ity" not a "necessity" for raising the academic profile of JMU. A med school would do as much if not more as it reflects and serves to build a school's national identity. Oh, but that's right, alums can't tailgate at a med school. Again, if you want a FBS football program, pay for it...but stop with the "must" have silly argument.

(04-29-2014 03:53 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 08:53 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Playing FBS football is a 'must' for being a national university.

This is one of your dumber posts.

Tell it to Harvard, MIT, or closer to home, tell it to our near, dear neighbor W&M. FB is a "nice-ity" not a "necessity" for raising the academic profile of JMU. A med school would do as much if not more as it reflects and serves to build a school's national identity. Oh, but that's right, alums can't tailgate at a med school. Again, if you want a FBS football program, pay for it...but stop with the "must" have silly argument.

Likewise, pointing to universities that have tremendous head starts or amazing resources is dumb.

(04-29-2014 10:25 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  Don't hold your breath about us achieving national university either, we're on a road to nowhere it appears.

Perhaps this is a case of sarcasm not translating over the Internet, but I certainly don't get "road to nowhere" when I see the development of the East Campus, Forbes Center, University Park, Veterans Memorial Park, Plecker Center, and, oh yeah, the new Bridgeforth. "Road to nowhere" would be completing none of those projects, while taking away other programs or facilities.

(04-29-2014 02:33 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  I have no desire to go FBS. I want JMU to raise their endowment and increase the % of people who give so that they can lower student fees, pay professors more and raise the national profile of the university.

I don't have a strong opinion on FBS one way or the other - but I identify far more with your 2nd sentence above than with the group on here who is hypercritical of the administration, and who is adamant about JMU moving to FBS. I chose to attend JMU in the 90s knowing that it was lacking any big-time sports. Participating in and watching sports are two of my biggest passions in life - and every other school to which I was accepted is FBS and does have high-profile athletic teams. I chose JMU based on everything else it had to offer, and have no regrets. I'm glad to see JMU growing and becoming a well-rounded university, and I'd be disappointed if all effort were being focused on the football program.

(04-29-2014 03:53 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 08:53 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Playing FBS football is a 'must' for being a national university.

This is one of your dumber posts.

Tell it to Harvard, MIT, or closer to home, tell it to our near, dear neighbor W&M. FB is a "nice-ity" not a "necessity" for raising the academic profile of JMU. A med school would do as much if not more as it reflects and serves to build a school's national identity. Oh, but that's right, alums can't tailgate at a med school. Again, if you want a FBS football program, pay for it...but stop with the "must" have silly argument.

Can somebody clarify what exactly a "national university" is? It obviously doesn't require FBS football, but where does JMU fall short?


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How many listening tours, surveys, emails, text messages, forums, focus groups, polls before we start thinking about possibly starting a medical school maybe? Congrats to MB for jumping ship, he's better off football wise for having done so.

It would be great for the school's profile to start a medical school. However, it's a serious investment I don't see JMU taking on in the next couple of decades. There's definitely a demand for more physicians especially primary care physicians. There could definitely be some funding in the pipeline from the state if it was focused on primary care commitments in the state of VA.

(04-29-2014 03:58 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 03:53 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 08:53 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Playing FBS football is a 'must' for being a national university.

This is one of your dumber posts.

Tell it to Harvard, MIT, or closer to home, tell it to our near, dear neighbor W&M. FB is a "nice-ity" not a "necessity" for raising the academic profile of JMU. A med school would do as much if not more as it reflects and serves to build a school's national identity. Oh, but that's right, alums can't tailgate at a med school. Again, if you want a FBS football program, pay for it...but stop with the "must" have silly argument.

Likewise, pointing to universities that have tremendous head starts or amazing resources is dumb.

Look, most of us want to play FBS football. But seriously, how does joining the Sun Belt make this a national university?

(04-29-2014 03:53 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 08:53 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Playing FBS football is a 'must' for being a national university.

This is one of your dumber posts.

Tell it to Harvard, MIT, or closer to home, tell it to our near, dear neighbor W&M. FB is a "nice-ity" not a "necessity" for raising the academic profile of JMU. A med school would do as much if not more as it reflects and serves to build a school's national identity. Oh, but that's right, alums can't tailgate at a med school. Again, if you want a FBS football program, pay for it...but stop with the "must" have silly argument.

Who are you to tell me that I can't tailgate at a med school. I will tailgate on a boat,with a goat, in the rain, on a train, in a tree, just let me be, with a FOX, in a box, in a house, with a mouse, I will tailgate here, and there, I will tailgate Everywhere

(04-29-2014 05:14 PM)JMUDukeDawg Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 03:53 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 08:53 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Playing FBS football is a 'must' for being a national university.

This is one of your dumber posts.

Tell it to Harvard, MIT, or closer to home, tell it to our near, dear neighbor W&M. FB is a "nice-ity" not a "necessity" for raising the academic profile of JMU. A med school would do as much if not more as it reflects and serves to build a school's national identity. Oh, but that's right, alums can't tailgate at a med school. Again, if you want a FBS football program, pay for it...but stop with the "must" have silly argument.

Can somebody clarify what exactly a "national university" is? It obviously doesn't require FBS football, but where does JMU fall short?


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Outside of a nationally ranked college of business? Pretty much everywhere, including a lack of a legitimate MBA program. No FBS, minimal doctorate level programs, lack of a true national presence pretty much ******* everywhere except partying.

Left out School of Music, newbill. Wind Symphony just got selected to play the CBDNA conference. Biggest positive thing to happen for JMU music on the national stage in about 15 years. HUGE deal. Puts the group in the same conversation as their Indiana & North Texas counterparts.

I guess my question was more about whether there were technical/substantive requirements we lacked, not looking for somebody to (predictably) dump on the school.

Even with all the "crap" Newbill described, we're still a top regional university. It's amazing how we've done in the face of such hurdles...


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(04-29-2014 05:13 PM)DMadison Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 10:25 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  Don't hold your breath about us achieving national university either, we're on a road to nowhere it appears.

Perhaps this is a case of sarcasm not translating over the Internet, but I certainly don't get "road to nowhere" when I see the development of the East Campus, Forbes Center, University Park, Veterans Memorial Park, Plecker Center, and, oh yeah, the new Bridgeforth. "Road to nowhere" would be completing none of those projects, while taking away other programs or facilities.

(04-29-2014 02:33 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  I have no desire to go FBS. I want JMU to raise their endowment and increase the % of people who give so that they can lower student fees, pay professors more and raise the national profile of the university.

I don't have a strong opinion on FBS one way or the other - but I identify far more with your 2nd sentence above than with the group on here who is hypercritical of the administration, and who is adamant about JMU moving to FBS. I chose to attend JMU in the 90s knowing that it was lacking any big-time sports. Participating in and watching sports are two of my biggest passions in life - and every other school to which I was accepted is FBS and does have high-profile athletic teams. I chose JMU based on everything else it had to offer, and have no regrets. I'm glad to see JMU growing and becoming a well-rounded university, and I'd be disappointed if all effort were being focused on the football program.

I agree with you; however, after graduating, I never really felt truly engaged with the university or the need/desire to donate until the football team won the NC, and they started building the new facility (leading me and others to believe we were "on the move" as our "do nothing" president says these days). This got me and many others very excited to re-engage and want to give money back to our university. Athletics, and big time football, are a front porch to the university and a reason for alums to stay engaged. It's really not that hard to understand, particularly for a university where the fans have already demonstrated their desire to support the program.

Grays’ father said his son enjoyed the campus so much during his official visit last week to JMU that he canceled a trip to George Mason, a higher-profile school that plays in the Atlantic 10.

Just a few years ago JMU and Mason were on equal footing. The message is that "George Mason is a higher profile school" will not be lost on the general applicant pool.

Last week a family took their daughter to Mason for a campus tour. Since she indicated on her visitation form that she was interested in theater, Mason provided meals and play tickets for the family.

JMUs competition is working hard to gain market share. Mason, VCU, ODU changed conferences for that purpose. Now even the Daily News Record, without thought, says as much. That one line scares me.

For football, JMU seems content to play Elon. Lehigh, and St Francis while dropping ODU, VCU, and Mason in basketball. We pad our basketball schedule with Winthrop, High Point, and UNC-G then asking for larger donations while the administration sits around and sings Kumbaya.

(04-30-2014 12:08 AM)atljmualum Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 05:13 PM)DMadison Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 10:25 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  Don't hold your breath about us achieving national university either, we're on a road to nowhere it appears.

Perhaps this is a case of sarcasm not translating over the Internet, but I certainly don't get "road to nowhere" when I see the development of the East Campus, Forbes Center, University Park, Veterans Memorial Park, Plecker Center, and, oh yeah, the new Bridgeforth. "Road to nowhere" would be completing none of those projects, while taking away other programs or facilities.

(04-29-2014 02:33 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  I have no desire to go FBS. I want JMU to raise their endowment and increase the % of people who give so that they can lower student fees, pay professors more and raise the national profile of the university.

I don't have a strong opinion on FBS one way or the other - but I identify far more with your 2nd sentence above than with the group on here who is hypercritical of the administration, and who is adamant about JMU moving to FBS. I chose to attend JMU in the 90s knowing that it was lacking any big-time sports. Participating in and watching sports are two of my biggest passions in life - and every other school to which I was accepted is FBS and does have high-profile athletic teams. I chose JMU based on everything else it had to offer, and have no regrets. I'm glad to see JMU growing and becoming a well-rounded university, and I'd be disappointed if all effort were being focused on the football program.

I agree with you; however, after graduating, I never really felt truly engaged with the university or the need/desire to donate until the football team won the NC, and they started building the new facility (leading me and others to believe we were "on the move" as our "do nothing" president says these days). This got me and many others very excited to re-engage and want to give money back to our university. Athletics, and big time football, are a front porch to the university and a reason for alums to stay engaged. It's really not that hard to understand, particularly for a university where the fans have already demonstrated their desire to support the program.

Sorry man but big time football is ACC, Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12, Big-12, Notre Dame, and BYU.

(04-29-2014 09:51 PM)JMUDukeDawg Wrote:  I guess my question was more about whether there were technical/substantive requirements we lacked, not looking for somebody to (predictably) dump on the school.

Even with all the "crap" Newbill described, we're still a top regional university. It's amazing how we've done in the face of such hurdles...


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According to US News and Reports "Schools in the National Universities category, such as the University of Chicago and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, offer a full range of undergraduate majors, plus master's and Ph.D. programs. These colleges also are committed to producing groundbreaking research."

I believe I saw somewhere that the magic number is 10(?) PhD programs and that JMU has 8.

http://www.jmu.edu/gradcatalog/13/doctoral.html

BIRDSONG - See now this tangent is back on topic.

(04-30-2014 07:07 AM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(04-30-2014 12:08 AM)atljmualum Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 05:13 PM)DMadison Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 10:25 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  Don't hold your breath about us achieving national university either, we're on a road to nowhere it appears.

Perhaps this is a case of sarcasm not translating over the Internet, but I certainly don't get "road to nowhere" when I see the development of the East Campus, Forbes Center, University Park, Veterans Memorial Park, Plecker Center, and, oh yeah, the new Bridgeforth. "Road to nowhere" would be completing none of those projects, while taking away other programs or facilities.

(04-29-2014 02:33 PM)JMUETC Wrote:  I have no desire to go FBS. I want JMU to raise their endowment and increase the % of people who give so that they can lower student fees, pay professors more and raise the national profile of the university.

I don't have a strong opinion on FBS one way or the other - but I identify far more with your 2nd sentence above than with the group on here who is hypercritical of the administration, and who is adamant about JMU moving to FBS. I chose to attend JMU in the 90s knowing that it was lacking any big-time sports. Participating in and watching sports are two of my biggest passions in life - and every other school to which I was accepted is FBS and does have high-profile athletic teams. I chose JMU based on everything else it had to offer, and have no regrets. I'm glad to see JMU growing and becoming a well-rounded university, and I'd be disappointed if all effort were being focused on the football program.

I agree with you; however, after graduating, I never really felt truly engaged with the university or the need/desire to donate until the football team won the NC, and they started building the new facility (leading me and others to believe we were "on the move" as our "do nothing" president says these days). This got me and many others very excited to re-engage and want to give money back to our university. Athletics, and big time football, are a front porch to the university and a reason for alums to stay engaged. It's really not that hard to understand, particularly for a university where the fans have already demonstrated their desire to support the program.

Sorry man but big time football is ACC, Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12, Big-12, Notre Dame, and BYU.

I nearly wrote a disclaimer to this end, as I knew someone would say that, but I decided not to. I realize we wouldn't be G5 but we could be playing more games on a national stage, more games against G5 schools, and having the chance to have a shot to make it to a relatively high profile bowl once in a while if we perform (see NIU, Boise St, etc). My point still stands.

(04-30-2014 04:33 AM)HMK Wrote:  Grays’ father said his son enjoyed the campus so much during his official visit last week to JMU that he canceled a trip to George Mason, a higher-profile school that plays in the Atlantic 10.

Just a few years ago JMU and Mason were on equal footing. The message is that "George Mason is a higher profile school" will not be lost on the general applicant pool.

Last week a family took their daughter to Mason for a campus tour. Since she indicated on her visitation form that she was interested in theater, Mason provided meals and play tickets for the family.

JMUs competition is working hard to gain market share. Mason, VCU, ODU changed conferences for that purpose. Now even the Daily News Record, without thought, says as much. That one line scares me.

For football, JMU seems content to play Elon. Lehigh, and St Francis while dropping ODU, VCU, and Mason in basketball. We pad our basketball schedule with Winthrop, High Point, and UNC-G then asking for larger donations while the administration sits around and sings Kumbaya.

Bingo. I saw that same statement in the DNR and thought the exact same thing as I threw up in my mouth.

Based on what Withers said last night, Birdsong didn't want to compete with Vad for the starting spot. Withers told them both that in spite of the dominating performance spring game by Lee over MB that the competition was still open until at least August and still MB quit.

Sounds like there isn't much fight in that dog.