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Poor people aren't real Americans
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Fitbud Offline
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Post: #1
Poor people aren't real Americans
Message From the GOP: Hey, Poor People, You’re Not Real Americans
It’s not about the budget, and it has nothing to do with concern about drugs—it’s about harassing a particular class of Americans who need help.
Looks like its time for another season of America’s favorite political sport: demonizing folks on welfare.


Last month, the RNC announced that welfare would be one of the top issues they want to hammer home in the 2014 midterms. And on the local level, this isn’t just bumper-sticker campaign slogans, its being put into place as policy.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...icans.html
04-14-2014 01:17 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 01:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Looks like its time for another season of America’s favorite political sport: demonizing folks on welfare.

It's more interesting than baseball.
04-14-2014 02:01 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
pfft

Your side doesn't know the difference between cutting welfare because you're actually improving people's lives and they no longer need assistance and cutting welfare because you want people to die. This is the rhetoric your side spews because all you're interested in is having more people on the dole... because that is 'votes' for your agenda.
04-14-2014 02:07 PM
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ummechengr Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
From the article:

Quote:Since these GOP lawmakers believe in strong families, why not require every business in Florida, Mississippi, Michigan—or any state that has passed such a law—that receives a state contract to submit to company-wide drug tests, from the CEO on down?

You mean like drug tests everyone has to submit to prior to getting a job/agree to random tests?
04-14-2014 02:13 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
Good. We need to restore some of that Clintoon era welfare sanity. Benefit limits, time limits, training enrollment requirements, etc.

Funny, people got off the couch and went (back) to work. Hungers a great motivator.
04-14-2014 02:15 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 02:15 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Good. We need to restore some of that Clintoon era welfare sanity. Benefit limits, time limits, training enrollment requirements, etc.

Funny, people got off the couch and went (back) to work. Hungers a great motivator.


Like we like to say in Spanish, "el hambre 'sta canijo". Being hungry is a b**ch. 04-cheers
04-14-2014 02:19 PM
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Hitch Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 02:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(04-14-2014 01:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Looks like its time for another season of America’s favorite political sport: demonizing folks on welfare.

It's more interesting than baseball.

Now THAT is unAmerican.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2014 02:22 PM by Hitch.)
04-14-2014 02:21 PM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
Quote:Drugs affect every facet of American life. Rich. Poor. Democrat. Republican. Single. Married. So if the desire is to rid the nation of drugs and to get people the help they need, why not attach this provision to every dollar spent by the state?

One interpretation is that the one segment of society who really shouldn't be spending money and brain cells on drugs are those who are destitute and jobless. If you're well-off, then spending some of your discretionary income on weed is "allowable." (I know that's not the right word to use, but you get what I'm saying)

It's kind of like not wanting food stamps to be spent on booze.

I'm not saying it's right and I don't necessarily agree with this approach. And the author is probably right in that some out there do have this hatred of the poor. But there are other ways to look at it.

Quote:Politicians, largely Republicans, are good at playing up the class warfare ...

Largely Republicans?

03-lmfao
04-14-2014 02:21 PM
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Hitch Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 02:21 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  If you're well-off, then spending some of your discretionary income on weed is "allowable." (I know that's not the right word to use, but you get what I'm saying)

It's kind of like not wanting food stamps to be spent on booze.

I get where you're going with this, but it's hard to argue that people earn the right to break the law.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2014 02:25 PM by Hitch.)
04-14-2014 02:24 PM
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gdunn Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 02:13 PM)ummechengr Wrote:  From the article:

Quote:Since these GOP lawmakers believe in strong families, why not require every business in Florida, Mississippi, Michigan—or any state that has passed such a law—that receives a state contract to submit to company-wide drug tests, from the CEO on down?

You mean like drug tests everyone has to submit to prior to getting a job/agree to random tests?
I work for a company and everyone is subjected to the drug tests from CEO on down. Most companies are set up that way.
04-14-2014 02:35 PM
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Fitbud Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
[quote='JMUDunk' pid='10667342' dateline='1397502937']
Good. We need to restore some of that Clintoon era welfare sanity. Benefit limits, time limits, training enrollment requirements, etc.

Funny, people got off the couch and went (back) to work. Hungers a great motivator.
[/quote

Last time I checked, all of those are still in place.
04-14-2014 02:36 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 02:07 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  pfft

Your side doesn't know the difference between cutting welfare because you're actually improving people's lives and they no longer need assistance and cutting welfare because you want people to die. This is the rhetoric your side spews because all you're interested in is having more people on the dole... because that is 'votes' for your agenda.

This.

/thread
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2014 02:42 PM by HeartOfDixie.)
04-14-2014 02:42 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 02:36 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  [quote='JMUDunk' pid='10667342' dateline='1397502937']
Good. We need to restore some of that Clintoon era welfare sanity. Benefit limits, time limits, training enrollment requirements, etc.

Funny, people got off the couch and went (back) to work. Hungers a great motivator.
[/quote

Last time I checked, all of those are still in place.

Then once again your history fails you, teacher. 03-lmfao

zerO gutted most of it years ago.
04-14-2014 02:53 PM
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Fitbud Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
Fact: The welfare reform law that was signed by President Clinton in 1996 largely turned control over welfare benefits to the states, but the federal government provides some of the funding for state welfare programs through a program called Temporary Assistance For Needy Families (TANF). TANF grants to states require that all welfare recipients must find work within two years of first receiving benefits. This includes single parents, who are required to work at least 30 hours per week. Two-parent families are required to work 35 to 50 hours per week. Failure to obtain work could result in loss of benefits. It is also worth noting that, thanks to the pay offerings of companies such as Walmart, many who work at low wage jobs qualify for public assistance, even though they work full-time.

The popular perception is that welfare recipients don’t want to work. There are people in all sorts of situations who would probably prefer not to work, but for welfare recipients the law gives them no choice; within two years they have to find work or face losing benefits.

Myth: “People who go on welfare stay on it forever.”

Fact: According to statisticbrain.com, the vast majority of TANF recipients, 80.4 percent, receive benefits for five years or less. (The site still refers to the program by the old name of Aid To Families With Dependent Children. AFDC is the program that seems to be most often identified with the term “welfare.” AFDC programs were replaced at the federal level by TANF in 1996, but it is still common to hear the program referred to as AFDC.)

Myth: “There’s a woman in Chicago. She has 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards. … She’s got Medicaid, getting food stamps and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income alone is over $150,000″ – Ronald Reagan

Fact: Ah, the “welfare queen.” Ronny loved to tell his stories, and his welfare queen story is one of the most popular. The only problem is, the woman he talked about didn’t exist. There is some evidence that elements of this story may have been based on facts, but the descriptions of abuse by an actual woman were wildly exaggerated by Reagan.

Myth: “Welfare recipients keep having more kids so they can get more benefits.”

Fact: According to a 2010 report released by the federal Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the average family receiving TANF benefits has 1.8 children, which is about the same as the national average. Half of the families receiving TANF benefits only have one child. In fact, the average size of families receiving welfare benefits has declined from 4.0 in 1969 to 2.4 in 2010. Also, some states, such as Delaware and Georgia, make it clear to those who sign up for TANF benefits that their benefits will not increase if they have additional children. Taken from the Delaware Department of Health and Human Services website:

You will get information on family planning. Your check will not increase if you have a baby 10 months or more after you sign up for this program. [Emphasis added]

A Government Accountability Office report (page 45), shows the amount of TANF benefits paid in each state for one to three children. Even in states where having additional children will result in a benefit increase, that increase is, in most cases, $100 a month or less.

Myth: “Where Is The U.S. Headed If More Than 100 Million People Get Welfare?” – Headline of August 2012 column by CNN’s Jack Cafferty

Fact: 100 million Americans on welfare? Cafferty apparently gets his information from a biased source, the Center For Immigration Studies, which is connected to identified racist John Tanton. According to the 2010 federal HHS report, 1,084,828 adults and 3,280,153 children received TANF benefits that year, a far cry from 100 million.

Myth: ”I see these guys all the time, hanging out and drinking, and doing drugs, collecting welfare instead of working.”

Fact: The able-bodied single male with no dependent children who collects welfare in the United States pretty much does not exist, since the primary goal of most welfare programs is to provide temporary support for children and families. Single males can receive certain benefits, such as Supplemental Security Income (SSI) if they are disabled.

Myth: “Most welfare recipients are drug users.”

Fact: That’s apparently what Florida governor Rick Scott thought, too. The state of Florida began drug testing welfare recipients in 2011. About 2 percent tested positive for drug use. According to the New York Times, federal statistics show that the rate of drug use among welfare recipients is about the same as it is for the public at large.

Myth: “Most welfare recipients are minorities and illegal immigrants.”

Fact: TANF benefits were paid out to roughly the same percentage of white and black recipients in 2010, according to the HHS report. In fact, the percentage of black families receiving welfare benefits has declined by almost 7 percent since 2000. Regarding illegal immigrants: those who are in the United States illegally are ineligible for benefits other than emergency Medicaid.

Myth: ”People collect welfare instead of work, and they get rich. They all have iPhones, drive new cars, have widescreen tv’s, etc. I work and I can’t afford any of that!”

Fact: Since welfare payments vary by state and by the size of the family, it’s hard to provide all the pertinent numbers here, but here are some ranges:

A family of four can expect up to $500 a month in food stamp benefits. A single person can expect an average of $200 a month.
The average monthly allowance under TANF/AFDC is $900 for a family of four. For a single person the average is about $300.
It would be interesting to see what kind of “new car” anyone could buy on that income, or even an iPhone, for that matter. (Remember, despite what Newt Gingrich may have claimed during the 2012 election campaign, you can’t use food stamps for anything except food, so when you’re figuring how much money someone might have for an iPhone or a car, take that money out of the equation.) It is also worth observing that the people who sneer about welfare recipients having those things don’t take into consideration that the person may have had that iPhone or car before having to go on welfare. Along these lines, perhaps the most laughable criticism is of welfare recipients who have tattoos. Tattoos are permanent, folks! How do you know that someone got a tattoo after starting to receive welfare?

One final fact about welfare. Would anybody like to guess who makes up the single largest group on welfare in the United States? It’s children. One out of every four children in the United States receives welfare benefits.



Because the rules surrounding TANF require recipients to look for work, the problem is not with laziness, or a lack of education, but rather with the availability of jobs with good wages and benefits. Were more parents able to find well-paying jobs, fewer of their children would need welfare benefits. In fact, were more good jobs available, fewer Americans in general would need the assistance of welfare.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/20/...-exploded/
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2014 03:04 PM by Fitbud.)
04-14-2014 03:04 PM
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 01:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Message From the GOP: Hey, Poor People, You’re Not Real Americans
It’s not about the budget, and it has nothing to do with concern about drugs—it’s about harassing a particular class of Americans who need help.
Looks like its time for another season of America’s favorite political sport: demonizing folks on welfare.


Last month, the RNC announced that welfare would be one of the top issues they want to hammer home in the 2014 midterms. And on the local level, this isn’t just bumper-sticker campaign slogans, its being put into place as policy.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...icans.html

How is *NOT* giving you money the same as saying you're not an american..

Ironic that you put up a post complaining about people being demonized whilst you demonize other people.
04-14-2014 03:08 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 02:13 PM)ummechengr Wrote:  From the article:

Quote:Since these GOP lawmakers believe in strong families, why not require every business in Florida, Mississippi, Michigan—or any state that has passed such a law—that receives a state contract to submit to company-wide drug tests, from the CEO on down?

You mean like drug tests everyone has to submit to prior to getting a job/agree to random tests?

This! I had to take a drug test before I started my current contract...
04-14-2014 03:10 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
(04-14-2014 03:04 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/20/...-exploded/

Pretty easy to explode myths when you get to specify and shape the myths as well.

While much of what you say is 'close' to the actual comments, the refutations are often much more vague. I.e. the Reagan comment is clearly an amalgamation of numerous situations shortened down to make a point and be concise... and according to the article, is based in facts... but because there isn't actually a single person for whom all of those factors are 100% accurate... you want to dismiss the factually based argument. This is especially interesting in that so many jumped on Reagan as being racist in this comment, while simultaneously arguing that more blacks (by percentage) get assistance... if someone actually accepts that as a fact and uses a black person as the 'generic', suddenly it is racist.

The fact is that there are NUMEROUS young single mothers who had the child to get benefits... They don't have MORE children because they didn't even REALLY want that one, but they couldn't get support if they didn't have one.

I also laugh at the classifications of Welfare...

Any time a study comes out talking about what states get the most Federal money, the left is quick to call this welfare and point out that it is the south. When you take out things like social security and military benefits which aren't welfare at all, but instead are retirement benefits... the numbers change dramatically. NOW the left wants to say that Welfare only means certain portions of 'support', and not even all of 'support'.

That's enough... though I could go on for days.
04-14-2014 03:22 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
Call it what you wish. I agree that there are people in need because of no fault of their own and SHOULD get assistance. But you also should agree that there is a lot of welfare abuse and because of those people everyone gets demonized. And I think you agree that something has to get done about those abuses. Right?
04-14-2014 03:28 PM
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Hitch Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
I think the more fundamental debate is how much abuse are we willing to tolerate? There will always be people who abuse systems, be it charity, tax deductions, or even store discounts. Anything attractive or helpful is going to be a target for abuse by some *******.

So given that any welfare system will have some abuse, what level of abuse are we willing to tolerate before the entire system has to be reformed? 5%? 10%? 20%?
04-14-2014 03:49 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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RE: Poor people aren't real Americans
There shouldn't be any abuse. Any abusers should be punished dependent on the amount. Put them to work like they do those on probation for instance.
04-14-2014 03:54 PM
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