Posted from my Nexus 5 using the CSNbbs app.

Another item not mentioned is the fact that women alot of time take the first offer whereas men will negotiate.

Within the last 3 months I hired two engineers out of college. 1 man and 1 woman. The woman took the offer we made, while the man negotiated a better signing bonus and extra vacation.

Maybe men make more because they're simply worth it, you know, like how Hollywood's top actors get a lot more than Hollywood's top actresses. There's also the fact that men often pay the way for women who don't work - how often do we see that happen the other way around?

I've never seen the numbers, but don't the numbers of women and men in the same position, same industry, same family situation, and same point in their careers match up about even.

From this report I'm looking at, a year after graduation, people in healthcare, sciences, business support, technology, comp-sci and engineering are even.

Jobs in which attitude, perception, and negotiation matter, like sales and management, have a gap for the men.

http://qz.com/182977/there-is-no-gender-...-salaries/

The report also notes that a third of all pay gaps go unexplained. Could some differences come from the fact that competence isn't on the same level? I'm not saying that they inherently know less, but they are relatively new to learning the "game" and the "system". I think that multiple pay gaps could be partly attributed to this. The system was made and refined by (not getting racial here) rich white males.

I hypothesize that the men who contribute the most to the gaps are white and from the upper-middle class or higher. They've probably grown up with more familiarity on how to handle the system and how to play the game. I'd venture to say that white males from poorer backgrounds could be behind women from wealthier backgrounds, turning the gap on its head.

Jeez, I wish I could explain this better because I have a feeling these last parts could be taken the wrong way. Or does it just plain make no sense?

(04-13-2014 02:17 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Maybe men make more because they're simply worth it, you know, like how Hollywood's top actors get a lot more than Hollywood's top actresses. There's also the fact that men often pay the way for women who don't work - how often do we see that happen the other way around?

How many men wouldn't stigmatize another man for doing so?

(04-13-2014 09:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I've never seen the numbers, but don't the numbers of women and men in the same position, same industry, same family situation, and same point in their careers match up about even.

From this report I'm looking at, a year after graduation, people in healthcare, sciences, business support, technology, comp-sci and engineering are even.

Jobs in which attitude, perception, and negotiation matter, like sales and management, have a gap for the men.

http://qz.com/182977/there-is-no-gender-...-salaries/

The report also notes that a third of all pay gaps go unexplained. Could some differences come from the fact that competence isn't on the same level? I'm not saying that they inherently know less, but they are relatively new to learning the "game" and the "system". I think that multiple pay gaps could be partly attributed to this. The system was made and refined by (not getting racial here) rich white males.

I hypothesize that the men who contribute the most to the gaps are white and from the upper-middle class or higher. They've probably grown up with more familiarity on how to handle the system and how to play the game. I'd venture to say that white males from poorer backgrounds could be behind women from wealthier backgrounds, turning the gap on its head.

Jeez, I wish I could explain this better because I have a feeling these last parts could be taken the wrong way. Or does it just plain make no sense?

this ^^^^^

id also add that they have added connections, networking, & experiences to go along with it.

while I doubt the pay gap is as bad as it seems. it seems totally insane for someone to argue against putting protections in place for the small amount of people who do get affected by an intentional pay gap.

(04-13-2014 09:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I've never seen the numbers, but don't the numbers of women and men in the same position, same industry, same family situation, and same point in their careers match up about even.

From this report I'm looking at, a year after graduation, people in healthcare, sciences, business support, technology, comp-sci and engineering are even.

Jobs in which attitude, perception, and negotiation matter, like sales and management, have a gap for the men.

http://qz.com/182977/there-is-no-gender-...-salaries/

The report also notes that a third of all pay gaps go unexplained. Could some differences come from the fact that competence isn't on the same level? I'm not saying that they inherently know less, but they are relatively new to learning the "game" and the "system". I think that multiple pay gaps could be partly attributed to this. The system was made and refined by (not getting racial here) rich white males.

I hypothesize that the men who contribute the most to the gaps are white and from the upper-middle class or higher. They've probably grown up with more familiarity on how to handle the system and how to play the game. I'd venture to say that white males from poorer backgrounds could be behind women from wealthier backgrounds, turning the gap on its head.

Jeez, I wish I could explain this better because I have a feeling these last parts could be taken the wrong way. Or does it just plain make no sense?

this ^^^^^

id also add that they have added connections, networking, & experiences to go along with it.

while I doubt the pay gap is as bad as it seems. it seems totally insane for someone to argue against putting protections in place for the small amount of people who do get affected by an intentional pay gap.

What exactly are the protections? If a man gets a raise, a woman must get the same raise?

Now if I owned one of those new tech companies, I'd place my salaries out there in the open. I think that could be a good PR boost. Upworthy would be all over that ****. Think of the headline:

This company exploits its view women to get a leg up. See how they use it to close the pay gap.

Idiots would click that **** all day.

(04-13-2014 09:45 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I've never seen the numbers, but don't the numbers of women and men in the same position, same industry, same family situation, and same point in their careers match up about even.

From this report I'm looking at, a year after graduation, people in healthcare, sciences, business support, technology, comp-sci and engineering are even.

Jobs in which attitude, perception, and negotiation matter, like sales and management, have a gap for the men.

http://qz.com/182977/there-is-no-gender-...-salaries/

The report also notes that a third of all pay gaps go unexplained. Could some differences come from the fact that competence isn't on the same level? I'm not saying that they inherently know less, but they are relatively new to learning the "game" and the "system". I think that multiple pay gaps could be partly attributed to this. The system was made and refined by (not getting racial here) rich white males.

I hypothesize that the men who contribute the most to the gaps are white and from the upper-middle class or higher. They've probably grown up with more familiarity on how to handle the system and how to play the game. I'd venture to say that white males from poorer backgrounds could be behind women from wealthier backgrounds, turning the gap on its head.

Jeez, I wish I could explain this better because I have a feeling these last parts could be taken the wrong way. Or does it just plain make no sense?

this ^^^^^

id also add that they have added connections, networking, & experiences to go along with it.

while I doubt the pay gap is as bad as it seems. it seems totally insane for someone to argue against putting protections in place for the small amount of people who do get affected by an intentional pay gap.

What exactly are the protections? If a man gets a raise, a woman must get the same raise?

Now if I owned one of those new tech companies, I'd place my salaries out there in the open. I think that could be a good PR boost. Upworthy would be all over that ****. Think of the headline:

This company exploits its view women to get a leg up. See how they use it to close the pay gap.

Idiots would click that **** all day.

by protections I am talking about making it easier for people to go back and look at their salaries compared to others over an extended period of time and increasing statue of limitations for people who want to sue after not being given fair pay.

No one in large numbers are proposing something along the lines of the part that i bolded.

(04-13-2014 09:45 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I've never seen the numbers, but don't the numbers of women and men in the same position, same industry, same family situation, and same point in their careers match up about even.

From this report I'm looking at, a year after graduation, people in healthcare, sciences, business support, technology, comp-sci and engineering are even.

Jobs in which attitude, perception, and negotiation matter, like sales and management, have a gap for the men.

http://qz.com/182977/there-is-no-gender-...-salaries/

The report also notes that a third of all pay gaps go unexplained. Could some differences come from the fact that competence isn't on the same level? I'm not saying that they inherently know less, but they are relatively new to learning the "game" and the "system". I think that multiple pay gaps could be partly attributed to this. The system was made and refined by (not getting racial here) rich white males.

I hypothesize that the men who contribute the most to the gaps are white and from the upper-middle class or higher. They've probably grown up with more familiarity on how to handle the system and how to play the game. I'd venture to say that white males from poorer backgrounds could be behind women from wealthier backgrounds, turning the gap on its head.

Jeez, I wish I could explain this better because I have a feeling these last parts could be taken the wrong way. Or does it just plain make no sense?

this ^^^^^

id also add that they have added connections, networking, & experiences to go along with it.

while I doubt the pay gap is as bad as it seems. it seems totally insane for someone to argue against putting protections in place for the small amount of people who do get affected by an intentional pay gap.

What exactly are the protections? If a man gets a raise, a woman must get the same raise?

Now if I owned one of those new tech companies, I'd place my salaries out there in the open. I think that could be a good PR boost. Upworthy would be all over that ****. Think of the headline:

This company exploits its view women to get a leg up. See how they use it to close the pay gap.

Idiots would click that **** all day.

The only risk you have "putting it out there" is creating a cut throat environment which is not what you want on a systems engineering team.

(04-13-2014 09:55 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:45 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I've never seen the numbers, but don't the numbers of women and men in the same position, same industry, same family situation, and same point in their careers match up about even.

From this report I'm looking at, a year after graduation, people in healthcare, sciences, business support, technology, comp-sci and engineering are even.

Jobs in which attitude, perception, and negotiation matter, like sales and management, have a gap for the men.

http://qz.com/182977/there-is-no-gender-...-salaries/

The report also notes that a third of all pay gaps go unexplained. Could some differences come from the fact that competence isn't on the same level? I'm not saying that they inherently know less, but they are relatively new to learning the "game" and the "system". I think that multiple pay gaps could be partly attributed to this. The system was made and refined by (not getting racial here) rich white males.

I hypothesize that the men who contribute the most to the gaps are white and from the upper-middle class or higher. They've probably grown up with more familiarity on how to handle the system and how to play the game. I'd venture to say that white males from poorer backgrounds could be behind women from wealthier backgrounds, turning the gap on its head.

Jeez, I wish I could explain this better because I have a feeling these last parts could be taken the wrong way. Or does it just plain make no sense?

this ^^^^^

id also add that they have added connections, networking, & experiences to go along with it.

while I doubt the pay gap is as bad as it seems. it seems totally insane for someone to argue against putting protections in place for the small amount of people who do get affected by an intentional pay gap.

What exactly are the protections? If a man gets a raise, a woman must get the same raise?

Now if I owned one of those new tech companies, I'd place my salaries out there in the open. I think that could be a good PR boost. Upworthy would be all over that ****. Think of the headline:

This company exploits its view women to get a leg up. See how they use it to close the pay gap.

Idiots would click that **** all day.

The only risk you have "putting it out there" is creating a cut throat environment which is not what you want on a systems engineering team.

Hmmm. Plans foiled.

(04-13-2014 09:55 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:45 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:32 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I've never seen the numbers, but don't the numbers of women and men in the same position, same industry, same family situation, and same point in their careers match up about even.

From this report I'm looking at, a year after graduation, people in healthcare, sciences, business support, technology, comp-sci and engineering are even.

Jobs in which attitude, perception, and negotiation matter, like sales and management, have a gap for the men.

http://qz.com/182977/there-is-no-gender-...-salaries/

The report also notes that a third of all pay gaps go unexplained. Could some differences come from the fact that competence isn't on the same level? I'm not saying that they inherently know less, but they are relatively new to learning the "game" and the "system". I think that multiple pay gaps could be partly attributed to this. The system was made and refined by (not getting racial here) rich white males.

I hypothesize that the men who contribute the most to the gaps are white and from the upper-middle class or higher. They've probably grown up with more familiarity on how to handle the system and how to play the game. I'd venture to say that white males from poorer backgrounds could be behind women from wealthier backgrounds, turning the gap on its head.

Jeez, I wish I could explain this better because I have a feeling these last parts could be taken the wrong way. Or does it just plain make no sense?

this ^^^^^

id also add that they have added connections, networking, & experiences to go along with it.

while I doubt the pay gap is as bad as it seems. it seems totally insane for someone to argue against putting protections in place for the small amount of people who do get affected by an intentional pay gap.

What exactly are the protections? If a man gets a raise, a woman must get the same raise?

Now if I owned one of those new tech companies, I'd place my salaries out there in the open. I think that could be a good PR boost. Upworthy would be all over that ****. Think of the headline:

This company exploits its view women to get a leg up. See how they use it to close the pay gap.

Idiots would click that **** all day.

The only risk you have "putting it out there" is creating a cut throat environment which is not what you want on a systems engineering team.

that wording sounds as stupid as pretty much every other wording republicans have used to explain why they don't want to support anti-discrimination legislation.

the ledbetter act was about as much as a no-brainer as it gets and yet only 3 house republicans voted for it and only 5 house democrats voted against it. and yet you wonder why everyone says there is a GOP war on women?????

Too many "protections" will have a chilling effect on the hiring of women in the all important small to medium sized business market.

If people become afraid of certain rules and stipulations related to women, then why hire one?

That's a risk that needs to be thought through by those wanting a bunch more rules.

(04-13-2014 10:01 PM)john01992 Wrote:  that wording sounds as stupid as pretty much every other wording republicans have used to explain why they don't want to support anti-discrimination legislation.

the ledbetter act was about as much as a no-brainer as it gets and yet only 3 house republicans voted for it and only 5 house democrats voted against it. and yet you wonder why everyone says there is a GOP war on women?????

Hey John,

For craps and giggles remind me again how many engineering teams you have worked on? My last boss let it slip that my compensation rate was above the other engineers on my team and instantly my working environment went to hell.

I left for a new gig and I don't care if others are making more than me, or if I am making more than them.

I ask for what I think I am worth and I take the time to do research on the industry in my area. If it's out of whack I'll ask for more, should I be told no I will find another job.[/b]

(04-13-2014 10:30 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Too many "protections" will have a chilling effect on the hiring of women in the all important small to medium sized business market.

If people become afraid of certain rules and stipulations related to women, then why hire one?

That's a risk that needs to be thought through by those wanting a bunch more rules.

by "too many protections" you mean a reasonable statue of limitations

(04-13-2014 10:45 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:01 PM)john01992 Wrote:  that wording sounds as stupid as pretty much every other wording republicans have used to explain why they don't want to support anti-discrimination legislation.

the ledbetter act was about as much as a no-brainer as it gets and yet only 3 house republicans voted for it and only 5 house democrats voted against it. and yet you wonder why everyone says there is a GOP war on women?????

Hey John,

For craps and giggles remind me again how many engineering teams you have worked on? My last boss let it slip that my compensation rate was above the other engineers on my team and instantly my working environment went to hell.

I left for a new gig and I don't care if others are making more than me, or if I am making more than them.

I ask for what I think I am worth and I take the time to do research on the industry in my area. If it's out of whack I'll ask for more, should I be told no I will find another job.[/b]

i was always the history & english kinda guy. I did intern at my brothers office (he is an engineer) for a little while so i have slightly above jack sh!t experience in engineering (but I do know how to used solid works & a CNC machine). i have said many times that the pay gap is not as bad as it seems and the fact that men go for the (higher paying) engineering jobs far more often than women is one reason for the pay gap to appear different than what it truly is. however putting basic protections in place for the .01% who do not get fair pay is more than reasonable.

the two major "fixes" obama has gone after is
-changing statue of limitations
-changing the way wages are recorded & made available to other employees

now dumb*** dixie says that that is "too many protections" and would mess with the hiring process. personally I think anyone who believes that is an idiot because these are two things that have nothing to do with the actual pay rates.

(04-13-2014 10:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:45 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:01 PM)john01992 Wrote:  that wording sounds as stupid as pretty much every other wording republicans have used to explain why they don't want to support anti-discrimination legislation.

the ledbetter act was about as much as a no-brainer as it gets and yet only 3 house republicans voted for it and only 5 house democrats voted against it. and yet you wonder why everyone says there is a GOP war on women?????

Hey John,

For craps and giggles remind me again how many engineering teams you have worked on? My last boss let it slip that my compensation rate was above the other engineers on my team and instantly my working environment went to hell.

I left for a new gig and I don't care if others are making more than me, or if I am making more than them.

I ask for what I think I am worth and I take the time to do research on the industry in my area. If it's out of whack I'll ask for more, should I be told no I will find another job.[/b]

i was always the history & english kinda guy. I did intern at my brothers office (he is an engineer) for a little while so i have slightly above jack sh!t experience in engineering (but I do know how to used solid works & a CNC machine). i have said many times that the pay gap is not as bad as it seems and the fact that men go for the (higher paying) engineering jobs far more often than women is one reason for the pay gap to appear different than what it truly is. however putting basic protections in place for the .01% who do not get fair pay is more than reasonable.

the two major "fixes" obama has gone after is
-changing statue of limitations
-changing the way wages are recorded & made available to other employees

now dumb*** dixie says that that is "too many protections" and would mess with the hiring process. personally I think anyone who believes that is an idiot because these are two things that have nothing to do with the actual pay rates.

^^^

The above is an example of how the modern unemployed are created.

(04-13-2014 10:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i was always the history & english kinda guy. I did intern at my brothers office (he is an engineer) for a little while so i have slightly above jack sh!t experience in engineering (but I do know how to used solid works & a CNC machine). i have said many times that the pay gap is not as bad as it seems and the fact that men go for the (higher paying) engineering jobs far more often than women is one reason for the pay gap to appear different than what it truly is. however putting basic protections in place for the .01% who do not get fair pay is more than reasonable.

In your brothers office did everyone know the salary of everyone else?

(04-13-2014 10:57 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:45 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:01 PM)john01992 Wrote:  that wording sounds as stupid as pretty much every other wording republicans have used to explain why they don't want to support anti-discrimination legislation.

the ledbetter act was about as much as a no-brainer as it gets and yet only 3 house republicans voted for it and only 5 house democrats voted against it. and yet you wonder why everyone says there is a GOP war on women?????

Hey John,

For craps and giggles remind me again how many engineering teams you have worked on? My last boss let it slip that my compensation rate was above the other engineers on my team and instantly my working environment went to hell.

I left for a new gig and I don't care if others are making more than me, or if I am making more than them.

I ask for what I think I am worth and I take the time to do research on the industry in my area. If it's out of whack I'll ask for more, should I be told no I will find another job.[/b]

i was always the history & english kinda guy. I did intern at my brothers office (he is an engineer) for a little while so i have slightly above jack sh!t experience in engineering (but I do know how to used solid works & a CNC machine). i have said many times that the pay gap is not as bad as it seems and the fact that men go for the (higher paying) engineering jobs far more often than women is one reason for the pay gap to appear different than what it truly is. however putting basic protections in place for the .01% who do not get fair pay is more than reasonable.

the two major "fixes" obama has gone after is
-changing statue of limitations
-changing the way wages are recorded & made available to other employees

now dumb*** dixie says that that is "too many protections" and would mess with the hiring process. personally I think anyone who believes that is an idiot because these are two things that have nothing to do with the actual pay rates.

^^^

The above is an example of how the modern unemployed are created.

^^^
and you are a fine example of why it will take us a couple of more decades to stamp out the racist, sexist, creationist, & bigots.

(04-13-2014 11:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:57 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:45 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:01 PM)john01992 Wrote:  that wording sounds as stupid as pretty much every other wording republicans have used to explain why they don't want to support anti-discrimination legislation.

the ledbetter act was about as much as a no-brainer as it gets and yet only 3 house republicans voted for it and only 5 house democrats voted against it. and yet you wonder why everyone says there is a GOP war on women?????

Hey John,

For craps and giggles remind me again how many engineering teams you have worked on? My last boss let it slip that my compensation rate was above the other engineers on my team and instantly my working environment went to hell.

I left for a new gig and I don't care if others are making more than me, or if I am making more than them.

I ask for what I think I am worth and I take the time to do research on the industry in my area. If it's out of whack I'll ask for more, should I be told no I will find another job.[/b]

i was always the history & english kinda guy. I did intern at my brothers office (he is an engineer) for a little while so i have slightly above jack sh!t experience in engineering (but I do know how to used solid works & a CNC machine). i have said many times that the pay gap is not as bad as it seems and the fact that men go for the (higher paying) engineering jobs far more often than women is one reason for the pay gap to appear different than what it truly is. however putting basic protections in place for the .01% who do not get fair pay is more than reasonable.

the two major "fixes" obama has gone after is
-changing statue of limitations
-changing the way wages are recorded & made available to other employees

now dumb*** dixie says that that is "too many protections" and would mess with the hiring process. personally I think anyone who believes that is an idiot because these are two things that have nothing to do with the actual pay rates.

^^^

The above is an example of how the modern unemployed are created.

^^^
and you are a fine example of why it will take us a couple of more decades to stamp out the racist, sexist, creationist, & bigots.

I'm in my 20s. You're an embarrassment to your family, and your generation.

(04-13-2014 10:59 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:55 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i was always the history & english kinda guy. I did intern at my brothers office (he is an engineer) for a little while so i have slightly above jack sh!t experience in engineering (but I do know how to used solid works & a CNC machine). i have said many times that the pay gap is not as bad as it seems and the fact that men go for the (higher paying) engineering jobs far more often than women is one reason for the pay gap to appear different than what it truly is. however putting basic protections in place for the .01% who do not get fair pay is more than reasonable.

In your brothers office did everyone know the salary of everyone else?

if you care deeply enough about this issue PM me and i can give you the details of the place I interned at.