(04-13-2014 09:07 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 05:26 PM)Natibearcat513 Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 05:17 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 05:15 PM)Natibearcat513 Wrote:  Only concern I have about gary clark,is the level of competition he plays against in high school.It looked like he was playing against 7th graders in some of his highlight videos.

Apparently he did well on the AAU circuit, too.

yea but he put up all those crazy numbers in high school. I do believe he will be good I just dont want to get my hopes up.On another not JL seems more like a three when you watch his high school high lights before the injury an when he was a 5*

Except for the elite level prep schools, HS competition everywhere is not top tier. You may play against some top tier, high major players, but you won't play against full rosters of D1 talent.

The AAU circuit is a different animal and the EYBL AAU circuit is full of stocked rosters and top level players against top level players.

And Clark more than held his own in the EYBL last year.

Here is how you can tell: Check out Clark's stats and compare them to "all everything" 5 star and NC signee Theo Pinson. Then compare them to 4 star, top 50, Georgetown signee LJ Peak

Gary Clark EYBL AAU - CP3 Team stats

Click on his profile and look at his stats in the final games of the Nike Peach Jam.

Tough to not be excited about this guy IMO.

Well said Eastside While I appreciate Nati's cautiousness (after all, it is an acquired trait among Bearcat fans), athleticism and skills are, athleticism and skills, regardless of the competition.

(04-13-2014 09:24 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-12-2014 07:59 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  i think we will be a good team by mid year next year.....we have athletes, depth, scoring (finally) and you know a Cronin team is going to play some defense

This, especially the bold part. The main thing people seem to ignore about Lawrence, is that his defense was very good for a freshman. Same can be said about KJ, but Troy still needs some work (some suggest KJ is more suited to covering a PG and Troy covering a SG).

Based on that, I would say that most of the newbies will be up to speed about midseason. But, who will have the toughness at crunch time, like SK and the departees? Right now, I don't see anyone outside of KJ and maybe Sanders. Perhaps Ge will get there.

i don't know if others have been ignoring it, but i disagree with that statement. Lawrence seemed very lost on defense and didn't bring the same versatility that Rubles/JJ brought when it came to switching bigs and smalls on pick and rolls. That's not to say that he doesn't possess that athleticism, but i definitely felt that the defense was way more vulnerable with Lawrence in.

i know this is said every offseason, but i wish Mick would press more. This is especially in light of the fact that we no longer have consistent scorer or a strong, go to post presence on offense. What we give up in experience on offense can be somewhat mitigated by points off of turnovers, and we got some guys that can definitely finish.

(04-13-2014 09:47 PM)eroc Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:24 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-12-2014 07:59 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  i think we will be a good team by mid year next year.....we have athletes, depth, scoring (finally) and you know a Cronin team is going to play some defense

This, especially the bold part. The main thing people seem to ignore about Lawrence, is that his defense was very good for a freshman. Same can be said about KJ, but Troy still needs some work (some suggest KJ is more suited to covering a PG and Troy covering a SG).

Based on that, I would say that most of the newbies will be up to speed about midseason. But, who will have the toughness at crunch time, like SK and the departees? Right now, I don't see anyone outside of KJ and maybe Sanders. Perhaps Ge will get there.

i don't know if others have been ignoring it, but i disagree with that statement. Lawrence seemed very lost on defense and didn't bring the same versatility that Rubles/JJ brought when it came to switching bigs and smalls on pick and rolls. That's not to say that he doesn't possess that athleticism, but i definitely felt that the defense was way more vulnerable with Lawrence in.

i know this is said every offseason, but i wish Mick would press more. This is especially in light of the fact that we no longer have consistent scorer or a strong, go to post presence on offense. What we give up in experience on offense can be somewhat mitigated by points off of turnovers, and we got some guys that can definitely finish.

I agree about pressing and yet you have to consider the number of games we played against teams that can't be pressed.

You just can't press guys like Smith and Napier - they are too quick and too experienced and will torch any press for easy layups. SMU is going to be the same way.

The funny thing is if we get consistent long range shooting, we might have the frontcourt scorers to actually beat teams in a balanced attack halfcourt game That would be something wouldn't it!

(04-13-2014 09:47 PM)eroc Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:24 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-12-2014 07:59 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  i think we will be a good team by mid year next year.....we have athletes, depth, scoring (finally) and you know a Cronin team is going to play some defense

This, especially the bold part. The main thing people seem to ignore about Lawrence, is that his defense was very good for a freshman. Same can be said about KJ, but Troy still needs some work (some suggest KJ is more suited to covering a PG and Troy covering a SG).

Based on that, I would say that most of the newbies will be up to speed about midseason. But, who will have the toughness at crunch time, like SK and the departees? Right now, I don't see anyone outside of KJ and maybe Sanders. Perhaps Ge will get there.

i don't know if others have been ignoring it, but i disagree with that statement. Lawrence seemed very lost on defense and didn't bring the same versatility that Rubles/JJ brought when it came to switching bigs and smalls on pick and rolls. That's not to say that he doesn't possess that athleticism, but i definitely felt that the defense was way more vulnerable with Lawrence in.

Don't you think comparing a freshman to JJ and Rubles is a bit unfair? Of course the team is more vulnerable without one of those two in. By the end of the year he was erasing quite a few inside shots, and I see him only getting better as time passes.

If Clark is good enough to unseat JL at PF on day one, at that point I may consider JL a bust. But, I will not be as quick to do so as others are.

(04-13-2014 09:07 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:  Except for the elite level prep schools, HS competition everywhere is not top tier. You may play against some top tier, high major players, but you won't play against full rosters of D1 talent.

The AAU circuit is a different animal and the EYBL AAU circuit is full of stocked rosters and top level players against top level players.

And Clark more than held his own in the EYBL last year.

Here is how you can tell: Check out Clark's stats and compare them to "all everything" 5 star and NC signee Theo Pinson. Then compare them to 4 star, top 50, Georgetown signee LJ Peak

Gary Clark EYBL AAU - CP3 Team stats

Click on his profile and look at his stats in the final games of the Nike Peach Jam.

Tough to not be excited about this guy IMO.

Why isn't Clark ranked higher, then? Not that those rankings are perfect, but if he's really this good and has done it against top talent, how is he still being so overlooked?

Those rankings are often dictated by who you sign with. If you sign with a big name school you get a bump up. If you sign with UC analysts just assume you can't be as good.

Wasn't SK a ***?

On the flip side, Lawrence, I think, was a *****. That is opposite of the ones we usually get. Usually a true ***** is pretty much ready. As I have mentioned before, his offense (including 47% from the line) lags his defense big time. NO ***** guy struggles that much with FTs. I am surprised the publishers didn't drop him after he signed with us

(04-14-2014 06:00 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:47 PM)eroc Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 09:24 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  This, especially the bold part. The main thing people seem to ignore about Lawrence, is that his defense was very good for a freshman. Same can be said about KJ, but Troy still needs some work (some suggest KJ is more suited to covering a PG and Troy covering a SG).

Based on that, I would say that most of the newbies will be up to speed about midseason. But, who will have the toughness at crunch time, like SK and the departees? Right now, I don't see anyone outside of KJ and maybe Sanders. Perhaps Ge will get there.

i don't know if others have been ignoring it, but i disagree with that statement. Lawrence seemed very lost on defense and didn't bring the same versatility that Rubles/JJ brought when it came to switching bigs and smalls on pick and rolls. That's not to say that he doesn't possess that athleticism, but i definitely felt that the defense was way more vulnerable with Lawrence in.

Don't you think comparing a freshman to JJ and Rubles is a bit unfair? Of course the team is more vulnerable without one of those two in. By the end of the year he was erasing quite a few inside shots, and I see him only getting better as time passes.

If Clark is good enough to unseat JL at PF on day one, at that point I may consider JL a bust. But, I will not be as quick to do so as others are.

i don't really have any other basis of comparison when you consider the fact that those are the two players he would sub in for, and this system was the only one where i've seen him. On top of that, comparing him to Nyarsuk is pointless. it's true that comparing him to Rubles and JJ at this point is unfair. in four years, they will be his bench marks.

(04-14-2014 08:44 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  Those rankings are often dictated by who you sign with. If you sign with a big name school you get a bump up. If you sign with UC analysts just assume you can't be as good.

There's some truth to that, but I'm not asking why he's not rated in the top 25 or something. He's barely in the top 150. I know some guys fly under the radar because they don't play AAU or they were hurt for a year or whatever, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. What are the ranking people not seeing that UC fans are?

(04-14-2014 10:18 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 08:44 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  Those rankings are often dictated by who you sign with. If you sign with a big name school you get a bump up. If you sign with UC analysts just assume you can't be as good.

There's some truth to that, but I'm not asking why he's not rated in the top 25 or something. He's barely in the top 150. I know some guys fly under the radar because they don't play AAU or they were hurt for a year or whatever, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. What are the ranking people not seeing that UC fans are?

Hes #100. which is better than saying barely top 150

(04-14-2014 10:49 AM)coachpipe Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 10:18 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 08:44 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  Those rankings are often dictated by who you sign with. If you sign with a big name school you get a bump up. If you sign with UC analysts just assume you can't be as good.

There's some truth to that, but I'm not asking why he's not rated in the top 25 or something. He's barely in the top 150. I know some guys fly under the radar because they don't play AAU or they were hurt for a year or whatever, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. What are the ranking people not seeing that UC fans are?

Hes #100. which is better than saying barely top 150

I see ESPN has him ranked 100, which is nice. Rivals has him at 145 though. 247 has him at 111.

My point is, several people here seem to think he'll be a contributor this year and are really impressed with him. Is there any reason, then, that the ranking services don't seem to think he's a top flight recruit?

From my understanding on how the ranking system works. And taking this from one of the posters either on this board or another board. Only about 25 to 50 of the recruits actually get scouted well. The rest is word of mouth and oh so and so said this. We will make him a 3 star and place him at #45 in his class.

I could have interpreted that completely wrong. But that was my understanding when someone was talking about TC last year

(04-14-2014 08:50 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Wasn't SK a ***?

On the flip side, Lawrence, I think, was a *****. That is opposite of the ones we usually get. Usually a true ***** is pretty much ready. As I have mentioned before, his offense (including 47% from the line) lags his defense big time. NO ***** guy struggles that much with FTs. I am surprised the publishers didn't drop him after he signed with us

Yes, SK was a 3-star and Lawrence was a 5-star. Lawrence was the lowest rated 5-star by Rivals.

Earlier this year I was going to say that Lawrence has to be the least effective 5-star player I've ever seen. But then I went and compared his stats and playing time to a dozen other 5-star players and he's certainly not alone. Many of the 5-star players I reviewed had trouble making a significant impact their frosh year.

Lawrence actually appeared to be more comfortable offensively in his early season appearances and also looked confident at the free throw line. This is not a criticism of the player or coaching staffing. No matter how highly touted they were in high school it's a big adjustment for most any 18 year old to move across the country, enroll in college courses and play against upperclassmen who are bigger, stronger and more experienced.

I believe Lawrence will be good. Actually, I'm counting on it because the incoming players will likely deliver moments of brilliance punctuated by times where they just look lost offensively and defensively. UC should have enough size on the frontline that second chance points will increase dramatically if they can shoot from point blank range.

(04-14-2014 08:50 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Wasn't SK a ***?

On the flip side, Lawrence, I think, was a *****. That is opposite of the ones we usually get. Usually a true ***** is pretty much ready. As I have mentioned before, his offense (including 47% from the line) lags his defense big time. NO ***** guy struggles that much with FTs. I am surprised the publishers didn't drop him after he signed with us

Was I the only one who read this initially as profanity being edited out?

(04-14-2014 03:06 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 08:50 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  Wasn't SK a ***?

On the flip side, Lawrence, I think, was a *****. That is opposite of the ones we usually get. Usually a true ***** is pretty much ready. As I have mentioned before, his offense (including 47% from the line) lags his defense big time. NO ***** guy struggles that much with FTs. I am surprised the publishers didn't drop him after he signed with us

Was I the only one who read this initially as profanity being edited out?

No. I was literally typing stars Sorry about that.

(04-14-2014 11:37 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Earlier this year I was going to say that Lawrence has to be the least effective 5-star player I've ever seen. But then I went and compared his stats and playing time to a dozen other 5-star players and he's certainly not alone. Many of the 5-star players I reviewed had trouble making a significant impact their frosh year.

Interesting stuff Nacho... I usually do associate a 5-* as someone who will contribute now, like Lance. Good to hear a detailed explanation to the contrary.

By the way, I do think (as I have said before) that Lawrence will be very good. I was just questioning the 5-* status, something Nacho answered very well.

(04-14-2014 04:12 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 11:37 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Earlier this year I was going to say that Lawrence has to be the least effective 5-star player I've ever seen. But then I went and compared his stats and playing time to a dozen other 5-star players and he's certainly not alone. Many of the 5-star players I reviewed had trouble making a significant impact their frosh year.

Interesting stuff Nacho... I usually do associate a 5-* as someone who will contribute now, like Lance. Good to hear a detailed explanation to the contrary.

By the way, I do think (as I have said before) that Lawrence will be very good. I was just questioning the 5-* status, something Nacho answered very well.

I fully believe Lawrence's performance in his freshman season was hampered by the foot injury and because he was playing out of position. I just don't see him as a 5 in Justin Jackson's role. I see him as a 4 in Titus Rubles' role. But he was forced to spell JJ numerous times this year out of sheer lack of warm bodies in the low post.

I'm hoping with Quadri Moore and Coreontae DeBerry coming in next season, along with Jamaree Strickland gaining eligibility, Lawrence can move to the 4 and grow into his own.

(04-14-2014 04:25 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 04:12 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 11:37 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Earlier this year I was going to say that Lawrence has to be the least effective 5-star player I've ever seen. But then I went and compared his stats and playing time to a dozen other 5-star players and he's certainly not alone. Many of the 5-star players I reviewed had trouble making a significant impact their frosh year.

Interesting stuff Nacho... I usually do associate a 5-* as someone who will contribute now, like Lance. Good to hear a detailed explanation to the contrary.

By the way, I do think (as I have said before) that Lawrence will be very good. I was just questioning the 5-* status, something Nacho answered very well.

I fully believe Lawrence's performance in his freshman season was hampered by the foot injury and because he was playing out of position. I just don't see him as a 5 in Justin Jackson's role. I see him as a 4 in Titus Rubles' role. But he was forced to spell JJ numerous times this year out of sheer lack of warm bodies in the low post.

I'm hoping with Quadri Moore and Coreontae DeBerry coming in next season, along with Jamaree Strickland gaining eligibility, Lawrence can move to the 4 and grow into his own.

Plus, Lawrence missed a lot of the prior season with an injury.