What does that even mean? There's no magic budget number

Saban needs to stick to coaching football.

(04-13-2014 08:20 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  What does that even mean? There's no magic budget number

That's right, there isn't. But if the P5 get most of the "autonomy" that they claim to want, and/or if there is enough pressure for "full cost of attendance" or for genuine above-the-table athlete compensation, then some of the new rules will increase the price of FBS (even for the programs that are trying to stay in FBS while spending as little as possible), to the point where some schools will eventually pull the plug on football or opt for FCS.

(04-13-2014 05:04 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I would be fine with an 8-team playoff that takes the top 8 FBS teams. No AQ berths for anyone. The conferences with teams good enough to be ranked in the top 8 participate. The conferences without a top 8 team don't.

A top 8 with the P5 guaranteed a spot would be because enough of the P5 demanded a spot to agree to it.

A top 8 with the P5 guaranteed a spot along with the best of the Go5 would be because lawyers told them it would be the best way to avoid an antitrust challenge.

A top 8 that was just the best 8, irrespective of conference, the 5 P5 champions and three at large schools, the 5 P5 champions, the best Go5 champions and two at-large schools ... I'd take any of them, they'd end up getting the four best schools, plus four more, and letting them play their way to the championship. After all, the reason to want to expand beyond the CFP is the concern that the four schools selected won't actually be the four best schools.

That's basically what might happen though. P5 gets autonomy to offer "full cost"

If they are the only ones allowed to offer it then there is your defacto new subdivision even if it's not officially recognized. Doesn't matter if the AAC or MWC want to offer "full cost" too if they aren't allowed to by the rest of D1

(04-13-2014 06:19 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 05:18 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 01:42 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I think ultimately what the P5 want is their own FB subdivision within the NCAA.

That way they can expand the playoff to 8 so that all 5 conferences get an AQ slot for their champs and there are still 3 Wildcards for teams like BYU and ND to compete for, all without having to listen about the Sunbelt or American whine that their champ deserves an AQ slot in your playoff because they are no longer part of the subdivision.

I think that this step would have been avoided IF FBS didn't grow from 90-100 all the way to the upper 120s.

Except it is a step that hasn't happened!


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

This is my opinion but I think the powers that be are willing to accept a 130 or 140 FBS that they could split off as the new D1.

The is still a good 200+ members less than today's D1. Its not the 40,000 student G5 school that offends them.

So everyone in the P5 wants to play with themselves??? Sounds like they need real help.

(04-13-2014 05:04 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Exactly. I would be fine with an 8-team playoff that takes the top 8 FBS teams. No AQ berths for anyone. The conferences with teams good enough to be ranked in the top 8 participate. The conferences without a top 8 team don't. Require G5 teams to earn their way in, and require P5 teams to do the same.

That will never happen. All the political power is in the P5. No way they put themselves on an even playing field with the G5.

It also ignores the fact that the selection committee is tasked with putting together attractive matchups for the CFP bowls. Look for deserving schools to get both screwed out of a playoff bid as well as schools getting screwed out of being in the CFP access bowls because better traveling, more TV attractive teams had nearly as good a year. Basically the same as the BCS but worse because there will be no polls or computer rankings used.

(04-13-2014 09:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  That's basically what might happen though. P5 gets autonomy to offer "full cost"

If they are the only ones allowed to offer it then there is your defacto new subdivision even if it's not officially recognized. Doesn't matter if the AAC or MWC want to offer "full cost" too if they aren't allowed to by the rest of D1

They won't be the only ones allowed to do it.

(04-13-2014 11:04 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 05:04 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Exactly. I would be fine with an 8-team playoff that takes the top 8 FBS teams. No AQ berths for anyone. The conferences with teams good enough to be ranked in the top 8 participate. The conferences without a top 8 team don't. Require G5 teams to earn their way in, and require P5 teams to do the same.

That will never happen. All the political power is in the P5. No way they put themselves on an even playing field with the G5.

It also ignores the fact that the selection committee is tasked with putting together attractive matchups for the CFP bowls. Look for deserving schools to get both screwed out of a playoff bid as well as schools getting screwed out of being in the CFP access bowls because better traveling, more TV attractive teams had nearly as good a year. Basically the same as the BCS but worse because there will be no polls or computer rankings used.

Perhaps. I have more faith that the selection committee would do a reasonably good job of picking the top 8. Sure they would be tempted to play politics, but they would be under enormous public scrutiny, even moreso than the NCAA basketball tournament selection committee. It would be hard to get away with screwing a deserving team out of a playoff berth.

The threat by Saban that the top P5 schools might chose to play play each other is so side splittingly funny that I can't believe he actually said it. This is like the rich 1% threatening to "not create jobs" if we raise their taxes.

I DARE the top P5 schools to only schedule each other. Double dog dare them. Meanwhile, look at every SEC team's schedule and you'll see an outmatched G5 school scheduled as a home game late in the season to avoid the risk of losing and dropping in the polls. They're all cowards and should be called out for it.

The only way to get true parity in college football is have an 8 team playoff with the top 8 conference champions. That way its ALL settled on the field. You want in the playoffs, you've got to win your conference championship game. To do that you've got to win your division. To do that you have to play every team in your division. Sure some divisions and some conferences are harder than others but if you want to find which team of 126 is truly the best you've got to decide it on the field.

^ and there it is.

The reason the P5 will eventually say "to hell with the truce, we're forming our own subdivision"

The settlement will be to have a "gatekeeper" conference that games can be scheduled with.

(04-14-2014 07:04 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  ^ and there it is.

The reason the P5 will eventually say "to hell with the truce, we're forming our own subdivision"

A sample size of one vs. all the other G5 posts in this thread.

You must be an attorney.

(04-14-2014 08:03 AM)UCF_SystemsEng Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 07:04 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  ^ and there it is.

The reason the P5 will eventually say "to hell with the truce, we're forming our own subdivision"

A sample size of one vs. all the other G5 posts in this thread.

You must be an attorney.

No. He is a guy that doesn't pay attention to his own schools scheduling habits. The P5 don't need anyone's permission to play exlusively P5 teams. Saban, or Sumlin for that matter, could have his wish tomarrow. The P5 needs no permission and needs no "special" division to have a schedule with no lowly FCS or G5 schools. The Aggies or LSU Tigers have complete and total control over who appears on thier schedule. Always have--always will. If Saban doesn't like his schedule, the problem lies with his AD---not his division.

the break is going to come along academic lines and more than likely it will happen with teams that finally give up and leave and a few that are forced to drop down/be left out when there is no conference home left for them after most of their conference mated bow out

academics is the only way the NCAA can get it done without claims of arbitrary rules and standards with no real reasoning behind them

the idea of fans in the stands, budget and similar is a non-starter and too many stupid schools will cheat it (which is what drives up the cost and makes things unsustainable)

it will start with tough academic requirements to even be eligible to play as a freshman or possibly no more freshman eligibility

it will have a set core of courses or types of courses that freshman must pass with a particular GPA to play as a sophomore if they are let in "probationary" and it will go from there

top universities will work with community colleges (there will be massive restrictions on how this will work especially along financial lines as well as classes taken and hours passed and GPA requirements)

schools will try and make the grade by allowing in fools especially lesser programs, but over time the inability for those fools to make it to the field, the scholarship cost in terms of reductions for APR, the inability to keep kids from leaving with eligibility and thus more scholarship losses will make it where those schools just can't get enough players and keep enough players eligible and offer enough scholarships year in and year out to field a competitive team

a few might even start out as a flash in the pan as they take a few idiots and get them on the field and win some, but as they "go pro" with a 1.25 GPA with 8 hours after 3 semesters and as they get arrested, fail out ect that team/program will wake up with 50 scholarships available to them for the next 4 years and they will fall apart and move back down/drop down rapidly before it all falls apart

other things they can do is require X number of sports to be offered in each conference and each team has to participate in so many of them

this will shift money from football for top programs and lesser programs will not be able to make that shift since the don't have the resources........this will anger the "get paid" types, but with the academic requirements they will never set foot on most universities and if they do they will be gone shorty...........academics is the way to get rid of them and their arguments

there will be restrictions on % of budget that can come from university or non-athletics sources so that will squeeze many programs......something like a max of 10% non-athletics revenues/state support/tuition can be a part of your athletics budget

so if you have 45 million in athletics revenues you can have a max of 4.5 million in university support

an exclusion will be made for OPTIONAL student ticket purchases instead of mandatory.......so if you are a 20,000 student university and 100% of your students opt into the athletics ticket fee for $100 that 2 million counted as athletics revenue + the additional option of another 10%

those students fees again will be 1005 OPTIONAL and they will have to come with a set amount of known tickets spelled out clearly for each game/opponent/date/sport so a school can't take the $100 and give 1 ticket to football for a D1-AA body bag game without spelling it out CLEARLY ahead of time before the student takes the option or opts out

there will probably be a REDUCTION on money spent on athletics department academic support and instead tere will be a mechanism for athletics departments to funnel money to the academic support department of the regular university in exchange for X number of slots for athletes at convenient times and support provided by the same tutors and others that regular students access instead of special "handlers" for athletes......again being a STUDENT will be part of the game

other ways that money will be channeled back into the university will probably happen as well and again there are those that will say that #32 "earned that", but with the academic requirements #32 will be at the drive thru super sizing it and he or she will not be littering a college campus they will be making use of their "skills" and "getting paid" for them elsewhere

(04-14-2014 08:20 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 08:03 AM)UCF_SystemsEng Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 07:04 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  ^ and there it is.

The reason the P5 will eventually say "to hell with the truce, we're forming our own subdivision"

A sample size of one vs. all the other G5 posts in this thread.

You must be an attorney.

No. He is a guy that doesn't pay attention to his own schools scheduling habits. The P5 don't need anyone's permission to play exlusively P5 teams. Saban, or Sumlin for that matter, could have his wish tomarrow. The P5 needs no permission and needs no "special" division to have a schedule with no lowly FCS or G5 schools. The Aggies or LSU Tigers have complete and total control over who appears on thier schedule. Always have--always will. If Saban doesn't like his schedule, the problem lies with his AD---not his division.

That particular post was aimed at his "The G5 all insist on the 8 conf champ = 8 team playoff" claim, and he is using a very minority opinion as an absolute to bolster his strawman.

(04-14-2014 07:04 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  ^ and there it is.

The reason the P5 will eventually say "to hell with the truce, we're forming our own subdivision"

dream on dreamer. P5 needs the G5 more than the G5 needs the P5. Let's see what happens when all of those "power conference" team come out of September 2-2 or 1-3 instead of 4-0 with fantasies of a national championship still intact. Their bandwagon fans and high dollar boosters will revolt.

Look at Ohio State- they schedule 1 P5 team a year and 3 G5(or 2 G5 and 1 FCS) teams a year for their OOC games. The one P5 is the only one they'll play on the road so that's 7 out of 8 OOC games played at home every two years. If they only play other P5 schools that number drops down to 4 out of 8, or 3 fewer. Ohio State averages $5.2m/game in ticket sales. 3 fewer home games means -$15.6m in ticket rev every two years PLUS travel expenses for 3 more road games. Even a cash cow like OSU won't walk away from that much cash just to stick it to the little guy.

Like I said, the P5 NEEDS the G5.

(04-14-2014 11:44 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 07:04 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  ^ and there it is.

The reason the P5 will eventually say "to hell with the truce, we're forming our own subdivision"

dream on dreamer. P5 needs the G5 more than the G5 needs the P5. Let's see what happens when all of those "power conference" team come out of September 2-2 or 1-3 instead of 4-0 with fantasies of a national championship still intact. Their bandwagon fans and high dollar boosters will revolt.

Look at Ohio State- they schedule 1 P5 team a year and 3 G5(or 2 G5 and 1 FCS) teams a year for their OOC games. The one P5 is the only one they'll play on the road so that's 7 out of 8 OOC games played at home every two years. If they only play other P5 schools that number drops down to 4 out of 8, or 3 fewer. Ohio State averages $5.2m/game in ticket sales. 3 fewer home games means -$15.6m in ticket rev every two years PLUS travel expenses for 3 more road games. Even a cash cow like OSU won't walk away from that much cash just to stick it to the little guy.

Like I said, the P5 NEEDS the G5.

The value of the non-conference game will be higher than it was, however.

P5 vs. FCS <<< P5 vs. low G5 < P5 vs. decent G5 <<< P5 vs. P5.

There are fewer home games, but the increased importance of each one will allow for Ohio State to spike up ticket prices accordingly. Furthermore, the TV networks that are in bed with the P5 conferences will also pay out more for superior content.

The smaller the FBS is, the more important each remaining school becomes.

(04-14-2014 12:32 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 11:44 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 07:04 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  ^ and there it is.

The reason the P5 will eventually say "to hell with the truce, we're forming our own subdivision"

dream on dreamer. P5 needs the G5 more than the G5 needs the P5. Let's see what happens when all of those "power conference" team come out of September 2-2 or 1-3 instead of 4-0 with fantasies of a national championship still intact. Their bandwagon fans and high dollar boosters will revolt.

Look at Ohio State- they schedule 1 P5 team a year and 3 G5(or 2 G5 and 1 FCS) teams a year for their OOC games. The one P5 is the only one they'll play on the road so that's 7 out of 8 OOC games played at home every two years. If they only play other P5 schools that number drops down to 4 out of 8, or 3 fewer. Ohio State averages $5.2m/game in ticket sales. 3 fewer home games means -$15.6m in ticket rev every two years PLUS travel expenses for 3 more road games. Even a cash cow like OSU won't walk away from that much cash just to stick it to the little guy.

Like I said, the P5 NEEDS the G5.

The value of the non-conference game will be higher than it was, however.

P5 vs. FCS <<< P5 vs. low G5 < P5 vs. decent G5 <<< P5 vs. P5.

There are fewer home games, but the increased importance of each one will allow for Ohio State to spike up ticket prices accordingly. Furthermore, the TV networks that are in bed with the P5 conferences will also pay out more for superior content.

The smaller the FBS is, the more important each remaining school becomes.

Not really if the net result of the contraction in college football results in significantly fewer people watching/supporting it.

One crummy team in New England. One team in NY. Two teams in the Inter Mountain West.

And what about those that get brought up? Many of them are going to be mired in decades long losing streaks that will depress the fan base and support.

Add 3 or 4 losses to the bottom half teams in the conference and watch fan bases evaporate.

Separating P5 from G5 wouldn't result in 65 higher supported teams, but only 20-30 higher supported teams. Every conference would end up with stagnation at the bottom of their conference. Multiple hopelessly poor performers at the bottom.

I don't think that college football is going to gain more viewers and supporters via contraction. Or more dollars from TV