(06-30-2019 09:05 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  King was quoted in the article about the unique reporting structure & how athletics runs through him due to JMU’s need to build facilities. Will that structure change to a more traditional one as he & JB retire?

I would think so though I don’t have a good read on Alger and if he would want to change the structure. He doesn’t seem like a sports guy.

(06-30-2019 08:13 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  No secret on here that I am a huge Jeff Bourne and Charlie King fan. That combination has been a winner for JMU. I have no idea who replaces these two when they leave but I can’t imagine being able to fill their shoes. One thing is for sure, whoever steps into their roles will step into them with JMU athletics far ahead of where it was when those two came to JMU. The table is set for the next person up.

Great articles. For those of us that know Jeff personally, we already know what a great family man he is and the strong marriage he has with Mary Lou. The saying that behind every great man is an even greater women comes to mind when reading Madia’s pieces. Mary Lou is a strong, intelligent women and someone else I also admire.

I am going to be sad when Jeff retires. It will be just like when Uncle Ron and Dean Ehlers retired. A true changing of the guard.

On balance, dollars to donuts I don’t think there’s any arguing these guys have done a rather remarkable job, much in the mold/direction of Ron Carrier: “You told us last year that if this was approved, you wouldn’t be asking again”. “I lied”. Chuckles all around.

Will some fault the hiccups? Of course myself included, but in macro the last 15-20 yrs has been pretty impressive.

Looking forward I’d nominate Dukester and Slaw to co/opt for Kings post, Cent and rooter in chief Dirty to tag team the AD’s job. Cent can bring his mad matchup and scheduling acumen to the fold.

Happy fourth Dukes! Great time to be alive

Obviously in the facilities area Bourne gets an A++. That is a BIG one.
I assume most hires in the other 15 varsity sports teams outside of football and mens’ basketball have been good over the last 20 years, but I’m not familiar enough to judge.

The 2 biggest negatives are (and they are BIG) as have already been mentioned and discussed ad nauseum on countless threads:
-lack of a football related move up since 2012. Bourne might not bear most of the responsibility for this or make the final call, but he plays a major part.
-mens’ basketball hires (I’m not very familiar with basketball but I take it overall they have been an unmitigated disaster).

As far as the football side:
-Everything from a facilities and support standpoint has been outstanding. A++
-Football hires IMHOP have been an A, as have been extending contracts.

My only gripe is scheduling. Looking since Bourne was hired in 99’, Only 5 home games in:
-99’: Bourne not responsible for that schedule.
-06’ & 09’ no criticism warranted, as IMHOP it was acceptable for JMU to have only 5 home games once every few years pre expanded Bridgeforth.

Positives:
-2012 vs WVU at Fed Ex.
-2014 making sure JMU wasn’t outbid by Liberty. Last season JMU hosted UD 1st round, but I believe last season was the 1st in which 1st round hosts weren’t soley determined by financial bids.

Negatives:
-5 home games in 2011, 2014 (a 12 game season to boot) and last season not acceptable IMHOP. Not when you have the stadium & support JMU has, and you see attendance peers like Montana & NDSU ALWAYS having at least 6 home games. 5 home games every few seasons would be more acceptable if JMU was playing a I-A every season and maintaining continuous home and homes with quality OOCs, but that hasn’t been the case.
-2004 and 2011 playoff bid disasters that led to 1st round away playoff games at Lehigh and EKU.
-2009 in addition to 5 home games had the “bye” week in week 1, so the team had to play 11 straight games with no bye, 6 on the road. Probably a factor in falling a game short of making the playoffs.
-Home and home with NSU (which is why JMU was left with only 5 home games last season). I get the Tidewater recruiting and alum angle. A 2 for 1 wouldn’t have been as bad. On the other hand, look at NDSU. They’ve got NC A&T, the only MEAC whom you now could consider a quality OOC, who’s a 3+ hr drive from JMU, flying to Fargo for a one and done next (2020) season.

(07-01-2019 08:23 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  -Home and home with NSU (which is why JMU was left with only 5 home games last season). On the other hand, look at NDSU. They’ve got NC A&T, the only MEAC whom you now could consider a quality OOC, who’s a 3+ hr drive from JMU, flying to Fargo for a one and done next (2020) season.

While I see your point, I don't think they are comparable. The argument here is splitting a home/home with NSU while NDSU doesn't make that concession. Here's the big difference: location. When we played Central Conn St, did they get a home game? Of course not. Why? They are in Connecticut.
Norfolk State, while you may argue that they don't deserve to host us, it actually did have some purpose. First of all, it is in Virginia so travel is no big deal. It was also a game our alumni could go see. Not to mention we have a significant fan base. Also it was a recruiting opportunity. The 757 is always a place we want to recruit from. What better way to recruit than to send the entire team down there and show off.
That's why I don't think its fair to compare the two. NC is not a recruiting hotbed for NDSU. Nor is it a few hours down the road. Definitely not an easy location for NDSU fans to travel to. It would be ridiculous for NDSU to do anything other than what they did. I think if JMU had that game, I would say we'd be doing the same exact thing as NDSU. We never had a home/home with NC Central or Saint Francis or any other low FCS squad.... except Hampton. See the correlation?
I am not a huge supporter of it, but I totally get it. Going to NSU was far more about the game itself as it was an opportunity to engage alumni in the area and recruit the 757.

(07-01-2019 09:08 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 08:23 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  -Home and home with NSU (which is why JMU was left with only 5 home games last season). On the other hand, look at NDSU. They’ve got NC A&T, the only MEAC whom you now could consider a quality OOC, who’s a 3+ hr drive from JMU, flying to Fargo for a one and done next (2020) season.

While I see your point, I don't think they are comparable. The argument here is splitting a home/home with NSU while NDSU doesn't make that concession. Here's the big difference: location. When we played Central Conn St, did they get a home game? Of course not. Why? They are in Connecticut.
Norfolk State, while you may argue that they don't deserve to host us, it actually did have some purpose. First of all, it is in Virginia so travel is no big deal. It was also a game our alumni could go see. Not to mention we have a significant fan base. Also it was a recruiting opportunity. The 757 is always a place we want to recruit from. What better way to recruit than to send the entire team down there and show off.
That's why I don't think its fair to compare the two. NC is not a recruiting hotbed for NDSU. Nor is it a few hours down the road. Definitely not an easy location for NDSU fans to travel to. It would be ridiculous for NDSU to do anything other than what they did. I think if JMU had that game, I would say we'd be doing the same exact thing as NDSU. We never had a home/home with NC Central or Saint Francis or any other low FCS squad.... except Hampton. See the correlation?
I am not a huge supporter of it, but I totally get it. Going to NSU was far more about the game itself as it was an opportunity to engage alumni in the area and recruit the 757.

yep. it's the same reason Tech is going to ODU many times. Their fans will buy up half the tickets and they will get a free recruiting opportunity. win-win for Hokies.....uhhhh, until uhhhh.....until, they lose the <ahem> game....

(07-01-2019 08:23 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Obviously in the facilities area Bourne gets an A++. That is a BIG one.
I assume most hires in the other 15 varsity sports teams outside of football and mens’ basketball have been good over the last 20 years, but I’m not familiar enough to judge.

The 2 biggest negatives are (and they are BIG) as have already been mentioned and discussed ad nauseum on countless threads:
-lack of a football related move up since 2012.
-mens’ basketball hires (I’m not very familiar with basketball but I take it overall they have been an unmitigated disaster).

As far as the football side:
-Everything from a facilities and support standpoint has been outstanding. A++
-Football hires IMHOP have been an A, as have been extending contracts.

My only gripe is scheduling. Looking since Bourne was hired in 99’, Only 5 home games in:
-99’: Bourne not responsible for that schedule.
-06’ & 09’ no criticism warranted, as IMHOP it was acceptable for JMU to have only 5 home games once every few years pre expanded Bridgeforth.

Positives:
-2012 vs WVU at Fed Ex.
-2014 making sure JMU wasn’t outbid by Liberty. Last season JMU hosted UD 1st round, but I believe last season was the 1st in which 1st round hosts weren’t soley determined by financial bids.

Negatives:
-5 home games in 2011, 2014 (a 12 game season to boot) and last season not acceptable IMHOP. Not when you have the stadium & support JMU has, and you see attendance peers like Montana & NDSU ALWAYS having at least 6 home games. 5 home games every few seasons would be more acceptable if JMU was playing a I-A every season and maintaining continuous home and homes with quality OOCs, but that hasn’t been the case.
-2004 and 2011 playoff bid disasters that led to 1st round away playoff games at Lehigh and EKU.
-2009 in addition to 5 home games had the “bye” week in week 1, so the team had to play 11 straight games with no bye, 6 on the road. Probably a factor in falling a game short of making the playoffs.
-Home and home with NSU (which is why JMU was left with only 5 home games last season). On the other hand, look at NDSU. They’ve got NC A&T, the only MEAC whom you now could consider a quality OOC, who’s a 3+ hr drive from JMU, flying to Fargo for a one and done next (2020) season.

i don't know why people pin the lack of move to FBS on Bourne. The other items on your list i don't necessarily disagree with. But this one....

you think he makes that call? C'mon. He's in the room and making recommendations and advising, but it's not his call at all. King, Rose/Alger, BOV. Those guys make the final call.

i've talked to Bourne in the past. he's not anti-FBS at all. it's a complicated UNIVERSITY issue. Not as simple as just saying, GO!

(07-01-2019 09:14 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 08:23 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Obviously in the facilities area Bourne gets an A++. That is a BIG one.
I assume most hires in the other 15 varsity sports teams outside of football and mens’ basketball have been good over the last 20 years, but I’m not familiar enough to judge.

The 2 biggest negatives are (and they are BIG) as have already been mentioned and discussed ad nauseum on countless threads:
-lack of a football related move up since 2012. Bourne might not bear most of the responsibility for this or make the final call, but he plays a major part.
-mens’ basketball hires (I’m not very familiar with basketball but I take it overall they have been an unmitigated disaster).

As far as the football side:
-Everything from a facilities and support standpoint has been outstanding. A++
-Football hires IMHOP have been an A, as have been extending contracts.

My only gripe is scheduling. Looking since Bourne was hired in 99’, Only 5 home games in:
-99’: Bourne not responsible for that schedule.
-06’ & 09’ no criticism warranted, as IMHOP it was acceptable for JMU to have only 5 home games once every few years pre expanded Bridgeforth.

Positives:
-2012 vs WVU at Fed Ex.
-2014 making sure JMU wasn’t outbid by Liberty. Last season JMU hosted UD 1st round, but I believe last season was the 1st in which 1st round hosts weren’t soley determined by financial bids.

Negatives:
-5 home games in 2011, 2014 (a 12 game season to boot) and last season not acceptable IMHOP. Not when you have the stadium & support JMU has, and you see attendance peers like Montana & NDSU ALWAYS having at least 6 home games. 5 home games every few seasons would be more acceptable if JMU was playing a I-A every season and maintaining continuous home and homes with quality OOCs, but that hasn’t been the case.
-2004 and 2011 playoff bid disasters that led to 1st round away playoff games at Lehigh and EKU.
-2009 in addition to 5 home games had the “bye” week in week 1, so the team had to play 11 straight games with no bye, 6 on the road. Probably a factor in falling a game short of making the playoffs.
-Home and home with NSU (which is why JMU was left with only 5 home games last season). On the other hand, look at NDSU. They’ve got NC A&T, the only MEAC whom you now could consider a quality OOC, who’s a 3+ hr drive from JMU, flying to Fargo for a one and done next (2020) season.

i don't know why people pin the lack of move to FBS on Bourne. The other items on your list i don't necessarily disagree with. But this one....

you think he makes that call? C'mon. He's in the room and making recommendations and advising, but it's not his call at all. King, Rose/Alger, BOV. Those guys make the final call.

i've talked to Bourne in the past. he's not anti-FBS at all. it's a complicated UNIVERSITY issue. Not as simple as just saying, GO!

Good point. I didn’t say he makes the final call, and should have stated that. I edited my post (see bolded above). When a school changes athletic conferences, the AD is going to play a part. While its not Bourne who makes the final call, I believe he would play a major part in the process

I’m a lot less gung ho on a move up that a lot of folks on here, but a lot of folks are going to judge him in part, fairly or unfairly, by a move up or lack there but the time he retires.

(07-01-2019 09:11 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:08 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 08:23 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  -Home and home with NSU (which is why JMU was left with only 5 home games last season). On the other hand, look at NDSU. They’ve got NC A&T, the only MEAC whom you now could consider a quality OOC, who’s a 3+ hr drive from JMU, flying to Fargo for a one and done next (2020) season.

While I see your point, I don't think they are comparable. The argument here is splitting a home/home with NSU while NDSU doesn't make that concession. Here's the big difference: location. When we played Central Conn St, did they get a home game? Of course not. Why? They are in Connecticut.
Norfolk State, while you may argue that they don't deserve to host us, it actually did have some purpose. First of all, it is in Virginia so travel is no big deal. It was also a game our alumni could go see. Not to mention we have a significant fan base. Also it was a recruiting opportunity. The 757 is always a place we want to recruit from. What better way to recruit than to send the entire team down there and show off.
That's why I don't think its fair to compare the two. NC is not a recruiting hotbed for NDSU. Nor is it a few hours down the road. Definitely not an easy location for NDSU fans to travel to. It would be ridiculous for NDSU to do anything other than what they did. I think if JMU had that game, I would say we'd be doing the same exact thing as NDSU. We never had a home/home with NC Central or Saint Francis or any other low FCS squad.... except Hampton. See the correlation?
I am not a huge supporter of it, but I totally get it. Going to NSU was far more about the game itself as it was an opportunity to engage alumni in the area and recruit the 757.

yep. it's the same reason Tech is going to ODU many times. Their fans will buy up half the tickets and they will get a free recruiting opportunity. win-win for Hokies.....uhhhh, until uhhhh.....until, they lose the <ahem> game....

Good points JMad & Duke Dawg. A 1 for 1 series with NSU might have been a little beneficial in regards to recruiting & tidewater area alums. But if it was THAT beneficial, I don’t think it would have been announced that JMU wouldn’t be doing any more of them.

Isn’t VT doing 2 for 1s with ODU though? I and others have stated on here before we wouldn’t have had as much an issue with it if it was a 2 for 1, which I failed to state in my post. And a 2 for 1 wouldn’t have likely as caused only a 5 game home season.

Bourne, anybody would struggle bringing interesting fcs teams to HBG because there are very few intetesting fcs teams. The three or four of them are nowhere near the midatlantic area.

The Chatanooga Mocs is our best effort as a fcs home game. This is not going to change without glacier sized changes in college football.

(07-01-2019 09:43 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:14 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 08:23 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Obviously in the facilities area Bourne gets an A++. That is a BIG one.
I assume most hires in the other 15 varsity sports teams outside of football and mens’ basketball have been good over the last 20 years, but I’m not familiar enough to judge.

The 2 biggest negatives are (and they are BIG) as have already been mentioned and discussed ad nauseum on countless threads:
-lack of a football related move up since 2012. Bourne might not bear most of the responsibility for this or make the final call, but he plays a major part.
-mens’ basketball hires (I’m not very familiar with basketball but I take it overall they have been an unmitigated disaster).

As far as the football side:
-Everything from a facilities and support standpoint has been outstanding. A++
-Football hires IMHOP have been an A, as have been extending contracts.

My only gripe is scheduling. Looking since Bourne was hired in 99’, Only 5 home games in:
-99’: Bourne not responsible for that schedule.
-06’ & 09’ no criticism warranted, as IMHOP it was acceptable for JMU to have only 5 home games once every few years pre expanded Bridgeforth.

Positives:
-2012 vs WVU at Fed Ex.
-2014 making sure JMU wasn’t outbid by Liberty. Last season JMU hosted UD 1st round, but I believe last season was the 1st in which 1st round hosts weren’t soley determined by financial bids.

Negatives:
-5 home games in 2011, 2014 (a 12 game season to boot) and last season not acceptable IMHOP. Not when you have the stadium & support JMU has, and you see attendance peers like Montana & NDSU ALWAYS having at least 6 home games. 5 home games every few seasons would be more acceptable if JMU was playing a I-A every season and maintaining continuous home and homes with quality OOCs, but that hasn’t been the case.
-2004 and 2011 playoff bid disasters that led to 1st round away playoff games at Lehigh and EKU.
-2009 in addition to 5 home games had the “bye” week in week 1, so the team had to play 11 straight games with no bye, 6 on the road. Probably a factor in falling a game short of making the playoffs.
-Home and home with NSU (which is why JMU was left with only 5 home games last season). On the other hand, look at NDSU. They’ve got NC A&T, the only MEAC whom you now could consider a quality OOC, who’s a 3+ hr drive from JMU, flying to Fargo for a one and done next (2020) season.

i don't know why people pin the lack of move to FBS on Bourne. The other items on your list i don't necessarily disagree with. But this one....

you think he makes that call? C'mon. He's in the room and making recommendations and advising, but it's not his call at all. King, Rose/Alger, BOV. Those guys make the final call.

i've talked to Bourne in the past. he's not anti-FBS at all. it's a complicated UNIVERSITY issue. Not as simple as just saying, GO!

Good point. I didn’t say he makes the final call, and should have stated that. I edited my post (see bolded above). When a school changes athletic conferences, the AD is going to play a part. While its not Bourne who makes the final call, I believe he would play a major part in the process

I’m a lot less gung ho on a move up that a lot of folks on here, but a lot of folks are going to judge him in part, fairly or unfairly, by a move up or lack there but the time he retires.

yea, i know you get it. its unfortunate so many others dont and blame it all on bourne simply because he is the public face of athletic department and is the one that has the microphone shoved in his face all the time asking for comment.

and if nothing else came out of the Madia 20-year articles, it should be that Bourne and his family love where they live and he loves his job.

you think he'd go against the decision makers on FBS when that microphone is in his face? not if he wants to keep his job.

he HAS to give the company line. Especially on a decision is big as that. It's unfortunate for him he's always put in that situation, but that's part of the gig.

Lol, Bourne & King might have to meet up and agree that they should blame each other. Call hundreds of alums and deflect to the other for why something happened. This could NEVER happen, right? JB would lose his job, right!

(06-30-2019 09:05 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  King was quoted in the article about the unique reporting structure & how athletics runs through him due to JMU’s need to build facilities. Will that structure change to a more traditional one as he & JB retire?

I think the structure would need to change quite a bit if we're looking for a quality, experience AD to replace Bourne when the time comes. I just don't see a new AD wiling to put up and deal with a "middle-man", not when it's in regards to the more day to day decisions.

(06-30-2019 08:36 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 08:13 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  No secret on here that I am a huge Jeff Bourne and Charlie King fan. That combination has been a winner for JMU. I have no idea who replaces these two when they leave but I can’t imagine being able to fill their shoes. One thing is for sure, whoever steps into their roles will step into them with JMU athletics far ahead of where it was when those two came to JMU. The table is set for the next person up.

Great articles. For those of us that know Jeff personally, we already know what a great family man he is and the strong marriage he has with Mary Lou. The saying that behind every great man is an even greater women comes to mind when reading Madia’s pieces. Mary Lou is a strong, intelligent women and someone else I also admire.

I am going to be sad when Jeff retires. It will be just like when Uncle Ron and Dean Ehlers retired. A true changing of the guard.

On balance, dollars to donuts I don’t think there’s any arguing these guys have done a rather remarkable job, much in the mold/direction of Ron Carrier: “You told us last year that if this was approved, you wouldn’t be asking again”. “I lied”. Chuckles all around.

Will some fault the hiccups? Of course myself included, but in macro the last 15-20 yrs has been pretty impressive.

Looking forward I’d nominate Dukester and Slaw to co/opt for Kings post, Cent and rooter in chief Dirty to tag team the AD’s job. Cent can bring his mad matchup and scheduling acumen to the fold.

Happy fourth Dukes! Great time to be alive

I'm generally not the type of person to pat someone on the back all that quickly, not everyone deserves a trophy and being average is not a good attribute, want something better then work harder/smarter. So when I read these post, especially the "remarkable" part; my thoughts were...."but isn't that their jobs and what they are paid a lot of money to do?" Sure JMU is in a much better place than 20 years ago but isn't that supposed to be the expectation for every university, team, business, person, ect...?

Different perspective question... why wouldn't the AD want his boss to be the guy that runs the finances? The President seems like more of the middle man if an AD has to go ask for anything related to money... aka pretty much everything.

(07-01-2019 12:48 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  Different perspective question... why wouldn't the AD want his boss to be the guy that runs the finances? The President seems like more of the middle man if an AD has to go ask for anything related to money... aka pretty much everything.

That logic means the Director of Parking Services should be the AD’s boss because all the athletes and coaches have to park on-campus most every day. Sarcasm aside, why is JMU unique in this approach if it makes so much sense?

I think the original reasoning lies in the tricky way Carrier operated when it came to athletics facility-building. Put the finance guy in charge of athletics so we can always make sure the books look good to the public while we bend but don’t break the rules. I don’t think we need that cover anymore.

Honestly, there’s no reason they can’t be close partners without the finance guy as the AD’s boss. I don’t only go to meetings to seek approval from my boss.

(07-01-2019 09:51 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Bourne, anybody would struggle bringing interesting fcs teams to HBG because there are very few intetesting fcs teams. The three or four of them are nowhere near the midatlantic area.

The Chatanooga Mocs is our best effort as a fcs home game. This is not going to change without glacier sized changes in college football.

If you’re looking Top 5 on the interest meter, I would say there’s an interesting one about 300 miles/5 hrs to the northwest, mainly due to pedigree. JMU hasn’t played them regular season since 1992..

Next closest would probably be about 8+ hrs/550 miles to the SW. A little outside of the mid atlantic area... Course that would mean hopping on a plane which = not as reasonable for an OOC game..

(07-01-2019 09:58 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:43 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:14 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 08:23 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Obviously in the facilities area Bourne gets an A++. That is a BIG one.
I assume most hires in the other 15 varsity sports teams outside of football and mens’ basketball have been good over the last 20 years, but I’m not familiar enough to judge.

The 2 biggest negatives are (and they are BIG) as have already been mentioned and discussed ad nauseum on countless threads:
-lack of a football related move up since 2012. Bourne might not bear most of the responsibility for this or make the final call, but he plays a major part.
-mens’ basketball hires (I’m not very familiar with basketball but I take it overall they have been an unmitigated disaster).

As far as the football side:
-Everything from a facilities and support standpoint has been outstanding. A++
-Football hires IMHOP have been an A, as have been extending contracts.

My only gripe is scheduling. Looking since Bourne was hired in 99’, Only 5 home games in:
-99’: Bourne not responsible for that schedule.
-06’ & 09’ no criticism warranted, as IMHOP it was acceptable for JMU to have only 5 home games once every few years pre expanded Bridgeforth.

Positives:
-2012 vs WVU at Fed Ex.
-2014 making sure JMU wasn’t outbid by Liberty. Last season JMU hosted UD 1st round, but I believe last season was the 1st in which 1st round hosts weren’t soley determined by financial bids.

Negatives:
-5 home games in 2011, 2014 (a 12 game season to boot) and last season not acceptable IMHOP. Not when you have the stadium & support JMU has, and you see attendance peers like Montana & NDSU ALWAYS having at least 6 home games. 5 home games every few seasons would be more acceptable if JMU was playing a I-A every season and maintaining continuous home and homes with quality OOCs, but that hasn’t been the case.
-2004 and 2011 playoff bid disasters that led to 1st round away playoff games at Lehigh and EKU.
-2009 in addition to 5 home games had the “bye” week in week 1, so the team had to play 11 straight games with no bye, 6 on the road. Probably a factor in falling a game short of making the playoffs.
-Home and home with NSU (which is why JMU was left with only 5 home games last season). On the other hand, look at NDSU. They’ve got NC A&T, the only MEAC whom you now could consider a quality OOC, who’s a 3+ hr drive from JMU, flying to Fargo for a one and done next (2020) season.

i don't know why people pin the lack of move to FBS on Bourne. The other items on your list i don't necessarily disagree with. But this one....

you think he makes that call? C'mon. He's in the room and making recommendations and advising, but it's not his call at all. King, Rose/Alger, BOV. Those guys make the final call.

i've talked to Bourne in the past. he's not anti-FBS at all. it's a complicated UNIVERSITY issue. Not as simple as just saying, GO!

Good point. I didn’t say he makes the final call, and should have stated that. I edited my post (see bolded above). When a school changes athletic conferences, the AD is going to play a part. While its not Bourne who makes the final call, I believe he would play a major part in the process

I’m a lot less gung ho on a move up that a lot of folks on here, but a lot of folks are going to judge him in part, fairly or unfairly, by a move up or lack there but the time he retires.

yea, i know you get it. its unfortunate so many others dont and blame it all on bourne simply because he is the public face of athletic department and is the one that has the microphone shoved in his face all the time asking for comment.

and if nothing else came out of the Madia 20-year articles, it should be that Bourne and his family love where they live and he loves his job.

you think he'd go against the decision makers on FBS when that microphone is in his face? not if he wants to keep his job.

he HAS to give the company line. Especially on a decision is big as that. It's unfortunate for him he's always put in that situation, but that's part of the gig.

The flip side. In Bourne’s 20 years at JMU, how much has been spent on athletic facilities in inflation adjusted 2019 dollars? 200+ million? While Bourne has played a large part in this huge success, he’s not the one calling the big $$$ shots. Yet he gets a disproportionate amount of the credit.

Same with the lack of an athletic conference move up. Bourne plays a large part, but as you have pointed out, is not the one calling the shots. Yet he gets a disproportionate amount of the blame.

With JMU’s failure to move up it wans’t an act of nature/act of God that kept JMU from moving up. Blame has to be placed somewhere. Maybe 90% on a combination of Rose/Alger, King, the BOV. Maybe a little bit goes on Bourne. I wouldn’t say zero..

(07-01-2019 01:11 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Honestly, there’s no reason they can’t be close partners without the finance guy as the AD’s boss. I don’t only go to meetings to seek approval from my boss.

Ultimately, the President is everyone’s “boss” at JMU, and the BOV is the President’s boss.

The admin structure of VPs and the AD as it currently exists was not the structure when Carrier was President. Carrier didn’t need to hide anything financial, the times were just different in how things got reported and Carrier knew how to take advantage of the rules as they then existed.

The current admin model was established by Rose, who wanted only 3 Exec VPs (Admin/Finance; Student Affairs, and Academics) reporting directly to him. Rose did not wish to elevate the position of AD to the level of an executive VP. That didn’t mean Rose could not (or did not) meet or speak with the AD, but for general operations it was decided the AD would best be served by reporting to CK.

(07-01-2019 01:28 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:58 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:43 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:14 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 08:23 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Obviously in the facilities area Bourne gets an A++. That is a BIG one.
I assume most hires in the other 15 varsity sports teams outside of football and mens’ basketball have been good over the last 20 years, but I’m not familiar enough to judge.

The 2 biggest negatives are (and they are BIG) as have already been mentioned and discussed ad nauseum on countless threads:
-lack of a football related move up since 2012. Bourne might not bear most of the responsibility for this or make the final call, but he plays a major part.
-mens’ basketball hires (I’m not very familiar with basketball but I take it overall they have been an unmitigated disaster).

As far as the football side:
-Everything from a facilities and support standpoint has been outstanding. A++
-Football hires IMHOP have been an A, as have been extending contracts.

My only gripe is scheduling. Looking since Bourne was hired in 99’, Only 5 home games in:
-99’: Bourne not responsible for that schedule.
-06’ & 09’ no criticism warranted, as IMHOP it was acceptable for JMU to have only 5 home games once every few years pre expanded Bridgeforth.

Positives:
-2012 vs WVU at Fed Ex.
-2014 making sure JMU wasn’t outbid by Liberty. Last season JMU hosted UD 1st round, but I believe last season was the 1st in which 1st round hosts weren’t soley determined by financial bids.

Negatives:
-5 home games in 2011, 2014 (a 12 game season to boot) and last season not acceptable IMHOP. Not when you have the stadium & support JMU has, and you see attendance peers like Montana & NDSU ALWAYS having at least 6 home games. 5 home games every few seasons would be more acceptable if JMU was playing a I-A every season and maintaining continuous home and homes with quality OOCs, but that hasn’t been the case.
-2004 and 2011 playoff bid disasters that led to 1st round away playoff games at Lehigh and EKU.
-2009 in addition to 5 home games had the “bye” week in week 1, so the team had to play 11 straight games with no bye, 6 on the road. Probably a factor in falling a game short of making the playoffs.
-Home and home with NSU (which is why JMU was left with only 5 home games last season). On the other hand, look at NDSU. They’ve got NC A&T, the only MEAC whom you now could consider a quality OOC, who’s a 3+ hr drive from JMU, flying to Fargo for a one and done next (2020) season.

i don't know why people pin the lack of move to FBS on Bourne. The other items on your list i don't necessarily disagree with. But this one....

you think he makes that call? C'mon. He's in the room and making recommendations and advising, but it's not his call at all. King, Rose/Alger, BOV. Those guys make the final call.

i've talked to Bourne in the past. he's not anti-FBS at all. it's a complicated UNIVERSITY issue. Not as simple as just saying, GO!

Good point. I didn’t say he makes the final call, and should have stated that. I edited my post (see bolded above). When a school changes athletic conferences, the AD is going to play a part. While its not Bourne who makes the final call, I believe he would play a major part in the process

I’m a lot less gung ho on a move up that a lot of folks on here, but a lot of folks are going to judge him in part, fairly or unfairly, by a move up or lack there but the time he retires.

yea, i know you get it. its unfortunate so many others dont and blame it all on bourne simply because he is the public face of athletic department and is the one that has the microphone shoved in his face all the time asking for comment.

and if nothing else came out of the Madia 20-year articles, it should be that Bourne and his family love where they live and he loves his job.

you think he'd go against the decision makers on FBS when that microphone is in his face? not if he wants to keep his job.

he HAS to give the company line. Especially on a decision is big as that. It's unfortunate for him he's always put in that situation, but that's part of the gig.

The flip side. In Bourne’s 20 years at JMU, how much has been spent on athletic facilities in inflation adjusted 2019 dollars? 200+ million? While Bourne has played a large part in this huge success, he’s not the one calling the big $$$ shots. Yet he gets a disproportionate amount of the credit.

Same with the lack of an athletic conference move up. Bourne plays a large part, but as you have pointed out, is not the one calling the shots. Yet he gets a disproportionate amount of the blame.

With JMU’s failure to move up it wans’t an act of nature/act of God that kept JMU from moving up. Blame has to be placed somewhere. Maybe 90% on a combination of Rose/Alger, King, the BOV. Maybe a little bit goes on Bourne. I wouldn’t say zero..

If you want to play the blame game, finger Rose as your man. Any opportunity to move anywhere (new conference wise) had long since been taken off the table by the time Alger took over.