(04-03-2014 01:01 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  If you have that NFL stadium, you can rent it for a larger type game. .

The only problem with that is, those big time games, are the exact types of games you want/need in your new stadium to sell tickets.

(04-03-2014 12:05 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 11:59 AM)SteveUCF19 Wrote:  There were only three seasons in USF history where they would've needed a stadium larger (on average) than 35K.

How would the 20 crowds in USF history over 42K been able to fit into a 35K stadium? Let's say for the sake of argument that numbers were overly inflated and say that only 10 crowds were over 40-45K, how would these fans have fit into the stadium? Also, how would USF had gotten big time home/home agreements with many different power programs, to include Miami and FSU with a 35K stadium. The answer is they wouldn't and won't if they build one.

You have a point, but the flip side of that is that for the big games you do get (UCF has hosted OOC Texas, Miami, NC State, Boston College, Missouri, and S. Carolina, and others in our conference with similar size stadiums can say the same) the smaller stadium size generates demand for tickets and guarantees playing in front of a home crowd. While Ray Jay has helped USF in getting these games, it has also led to games like the FSU game in front of many of their fans and lower season ticket prices due to less demand.

(04-03-2014 11:13 AM)pesik Wrote:  35k woud be so dumb, theyve regularly had 45k+ and even had a couple 60k vs some instate rivals , theyve had

anything less than 50k would be idiotic

For USF's "announced" crowds, sure...but USF's actual crowds (even their game vs FSU) were always "off" by 10,000-15,000...as for some reason, they like to inflate their attendance figures.

In 17 seasons, USF has only averaged over 38,000 actual fans per game for a season twice in its history...and never has averaged more actual fans as the capacity of UCF's BHNS Stadium.

http://www.voodoofive.com/2014/1/14/5306...f-football

As you can see by the above table, most years, USF averages between 18,000-30,000 actual fans per game/season...as you never want to overbuild capacity as that would just kill the incentive to ever buy season tix. (Sure, larger capacity might help with 1 large crowd every two years...but it hurts tix sales for the other 13 home games played during that time and kills any home field environment when most seats are empty.

(04-03-2014 12:05 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 11:59 AM)SteveUCF19 Wrote:  There were only three seasons in USF history where they would've needed a stadium larger (on average) than 35K.

How would the 20 crowds in USF history over 42K been able to fit into a 35K stadium? Let's say for the sake of argument that numbers were overly inflated and say that only 10 crowds were over 40-45K, how would these fans have fit into the stadium? Also, how would USF had gotten big time home/home agreements with many different power programs, to include Miami and FSU with a 35K stadium. The answer is they wouldn't and won't if they build one.

We got a home and home with Miami in a 30,000 seat stadium. UCF had a home and home with Texas in a 40,000 seat stadium. Heck we got a 2-1 with Michigan St when we were at a 20,000 seat off campus shack. Born and raised in Wesley Chapel and a Bulls fan, please, stop making excuses.
We've seen the transformation to UCF's and FAU's campus because of an OCS, if USF really wants to make excuses and look away that's fine. Y'all could think about how both UCF and FAU beat y'all this season instead?

(04-03-2014 11:44 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 11:27 AM)SteveUCF19 Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 11:21 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  For those of you unaware. Go open up the Youtube video of the 2007 USF/WVU in Tampa to see what USF is capable of in the good times. 67K. Hard sellout of RJS. Please open this video before forming an opinion.

One game from 7 years ago is a pretty small sample size. Capacity of a new stadium should be based on average attendance over a period time. I think 40-45K would be reasonable.

how about 2 years ago? on a 5-7 for a full season

In 2011 during USF's 5-7 season, they averaged 32,435 actual fans per game.

http://www.voodoofive.com/2014/1/14/5306...f-football

College FBall belongs on campus. The pregame experience is always better, it keeps fans connected to the school and it builds a stronger relationship to the school for current students.

A first class 45k stadium that can be expanded. It would be great for USF.

Haha. I knew this was going to reress into an announced vs. actual debate. Despite the fact that USF is the only school in the AAC that has actuals announced along with official announced attendance. Everyone else just has announced. And of course the actuals are used by the naysayers to dig at USF. This has been hashed before many times. Why is this continually used over and over. Like it hasn't been covered before. We get it, USF, like everyone else, has less bodies in seats than the announced attendance. This is not news anywhere. But, unlike at USF, no one really knows what the actuals are at the vast majority of schools. How about this: Everyone use either actuals or announced so we're all on the same page and can make apples to apples comparisons. How about that.

(04-03-2014 02:28 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Haha. I knew this was going to reress into an announced vs. actual debate. Despite the fact that USF is the only school in the AAC that has actuals announced along with official announced attendance. Everyone else just has announced. And of course the actuals are used by the naysayers to dig at USF. This has been hashed before many times. Why is this continually used over and over. Like it hasn't been covered before. We get it, USF, like everyone else, has less bodies in seats than the announced attendance. This is not news anywhere. But, unlike at USF, no one really knows what the actuals are at the vast majority of schools.

Its not about attendance. It is what it is. We all announce more than what show up. Its more about how much capacity USF needs.

I still can't get over the picture that was used. Whoever that loaded that image must really hate USF. For talking up an on campus stadium they show a total of 4 fans that probably weigh 400 pounds each.

(04-03-2014 02:31 PM)SteveUCF19 Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 02:28 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Haha. I knew this was going to reress into an announced vs. actual debate. Despite the fact that USF is the only school in the AAC that has actuals announced along with official announced attendance. Everyone else just has announced. And of course the actuals are used by the naysayers to dig at USF. This has been hashed before many times. Why is this continually used over and over. Like it hasn't been covered before. We get it, USF, like everyone else, has less bodies in seats than the announced attendance. This is not news anywhere. But, unlike at USF, no one really knows what the actuals are at the vast majority of schools.

Its not about attendance. It is what it is. We all announce more than what show up. Its more about how much capacity USF needs.

Fair enough. It just seems as though when talking about attendance, the "actual bodies in seats at USF" crowd comes out of the woodwork. But having said that, even if you do take actuals into account, USF needs more than 35K as they've had several season above 35K in actual attendance (not to mention announced was MUCH greater than 35K). I think that's the point. The standard seems to be about 45K and USF would start there, IMO.

You know how many seats it will have? Not one less than UCF's.

(04-03-2014 02:28 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Haha. I knew this was going to reress into an announced vs. actual debate. Despite the fact that USF is the only school in the AAC that has actuals announced along with official announced attendance. Everyone else just has announced. And of course the actuals are used by the naysayers to dig at USF. This has been hashed before many times. Why is this continually used over and over. Like it hasn't been covered before. We get it, USF, like everyone else, has less bodies in seats than the announced attendance. This is not news anywhere. But, unlike at USF, no one really knows what the actuals are at the vast majority of schools. How about this: Everyone use either actuals or announced so we're all on the same page and can make apples to apples comparisons. How about that.

No worries...but UCF used their "inside" actual attendance numbers for football and basketball when it came to designing/building their new arena and football stadium (plus projected 3rd party attendance/finance projections).

If USF ever did build an on-campus football stadium in our lifetime...they would use those similar numbers, plus trends (i.e. HDTV trend will continue to be a factor in future sports attendance, both college and pro...and it will effect teams more than others) will play a role too (i.e. more weeknight games vs Saturday games in the future...might make it harder for young families to attend 1/3 or more of your home games per year).

(04-03-2014 02:40 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 02:28 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Haha. I knew this was going to reress into an announced vs. actual debate. Despite the fact that USF is the only school in the AAC that has actuals announced along with official announced attendance. Everyone else just has announced. And of course the actuals are used by the naysayers to dig at USF. This has been hashed before many times. Why is this continually used over and over. Like it hasn't been covered before. We get it, USF, like everyone else, has less bodies in seats than the announced attendance. This is not news anywhere. But, unlike at USF, no one really knows what the actuals are at the vast majority of schools. How about this: Everyone use either actuals or announced so we're all on the same page and can make apples to apples comparisons. How about that.

No worries...but UCF used their "inside" actual attendance numbers for football and basketball when it came to designing/building their new arena and football stadium (plus projected 3rd party attendance/finance projections).

If USF ever did build an on-campus football stadium in our lifetime...they would use those similar numbers, plus trends (i.e. HDTV trend will continue to be a factor in future sports attendance, both college and pro...and it will effect teams more than others) will play a role too (i.e. more weeknight games vs Saturday games in the future...might make it harder for young families to attend 1/3 or more of your home games per year).

Agreed with that. As someone stated though, USF would probably build at least as big as UCF's. You don't build too much smaller than your rival. That's just a fact in today's world.

The bigger question is this. With the new AD in place, will we actually see some movement on the OCS front, or will this just continue to be talk.

(04-03-2014 10:33 AM)SteveUCF19 Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 10:26 AM)chrisiskingx Wrote:  As a rival of USF, i still want to see it flourish in its own way...35k is terribly small for the 'Big TOWN' mentality that USF fans think they have of their city and alma mater...I mean USF was number 2 in 2007...They got to have at least 50,000 seat stadium

I prefer them having a smaller stadium that UCF.

35,000 is a bit much though. How will we ever get all the UCF fans in there every other year?

My guess is a 35K fixed seat and 5K club seats is what they need. The creation of suites, box, and club seats where the school gets all the $$ is where a stadium on campus makes the big bucks! Money from suites and club seats make a program a lot more money than an extra 5-10 regular seats will over the course of the season, especially if like USF's case most games those extra seats would sit EMPTY!

Build a stadium that will MAKE YOUR PROGRAM MONEY, and also keep the visiting fans from taking over for rivalry games!

(04-03-2014 12:48 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  [quote='Hymie Weiss' pid='10631748' dateline='1396540965']
USF should do what we (UH) did. Start at 40K with plans in place for easy expansion if ever needed.

(04-03-2014 11:16 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  This is the part I don't get. NFL stadiums are well equipped with everything college stadiums are trying to mimic at a cheaper price. Why on Earth would you want to leave? I don't care if on campus makes it easier for students: they don't pay (or pay very little) for tickets. It is not like we are talking about a UMass situation. NFL stadiums, MLB stadiums, NBA arenas etc, almost without exception, are quite literally built in a centralized location to allow for ease of access to the metro area. Gillette Stadium (Foxboro, MA) and Sunlife Stadium (Miami Gardens, FL) are about the only exceptions. So it is not like the locations are bad.

The real issue for teams like USF is you are trying to build a connection with the students, not the community. The students are where your future supporters, donors, boosters come from. Besides it is supposed to be about the students. This is COLLEGE football. It is supposed to be about the college, and the students ARE the college. Everyone gets hung up on image and comfort, but the truth is all you need is a place for the fans to watch football.

USF and UCF are competing with UF, FSU and UM for fans, support, money and recruits. Those schools have more than a hundred years head start in creating a bond with their students. Students who, back in the day, sat in crappy stadiums, tailgated on campus (not UM) and became lifetime fans not because they sat in comfort, but because they loved cheering for their school. Having an on campus stadium creates that atmosphere where being off campus struggles. Getting students who traditionally could care less about football to the game has been key for UCF's success and it should be a priority for both UCF and USF.

Very few people (if any) ever said, gee I want to watch my alma matter play today, but that stadium is just not fancy enough.

I think its good that it's been pushed by reporters also but USF first in campus stadium will be in the 42-45k range at least to start off.

Really the issue for USF is not how many seats the stadium should have (should be 40k+ IMHO) but how fancy it should be.

UCF has been lambasted over how "nice" their stadium is, but really having a nicer stadium would not bring any more fans to the games. Even if it did, the difference would be miniscule compared the cost of building a traditional stadium. Every seat in BHNS has a good view of the field and everyone seems to have a good time.

So the question is not if USF wants an OCS, it is if USF can build an OCS a low budget OSC well before a nice one, does it make sense to pull the trigger early or wait until you can build your dream home. USF has the luxury of sitting and waiting, for now.

(04-03-2014 03:07 PM)Juan Tibonya Wrote:  Really the issue for USF is not how many seats the stadium should have (should be 40k+ IMHO) but how fancy it should be.

UCF has been lambasted over how "nice" their stadium is, but really having a nicer stadium would not bring any more fans to the games. Even if it did, the difference would be miniscule compared the cost of building a traditional stadium. Every seat in BHNS has a good view of the field and everyone seems to have a good time.

So the question is not if USF wants an OCS, it is if USF can build an OCS a low budget OSC well before a nice one, does it make sense to pull the trigger early or wait until you can build your dream home. USF has the luxury of sitting and waiting, for now.

Build an OCS with all seat backs. FAU's is an erector set stadium but looks beautiful with all blue seats, instead of the silver bleachers of UCF's. Problem solved.

(04-03-2014 03:40 PM)FAUAEPi Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 03:07 PM)Juan Tibonya Wrote:  Really the issue for USF is not how many seats the stadium should have (should be 40k+ IMHO) but how fancy it should be.

UCF has been lambasted over how "nice" their stadium is, but really having a nicer stadium would not bring any more fans to the games. Even if it did, the difference would be miniscule compared the cost of building a traditional stadium. Every seat in BHNS has a good view of the field and everyone seems to have a good time.

So the question is not if USF wants an OCS, it is if USF can build an OCS a low budget OSC well before a nice one, does it make sense to pull the trigger early or wait until you can build your dream home. USF has the luxury of sitting and waiting, for now.

Build an OCS with all seat backs. FAU's is an erector set stadium but looks beautiful with all blue seats, instead of the silver bleachers of UCF's. Problem solved.

Your stadium does look great.