I'd guess since Illinois is actually exploring the idea of improving a school, there is a strong likelihood they could accomplish such a task in a reasonable amount of time--it's not like they would need to construct entirely new campuses or something.

I don't know how much you know, or think you know, about the directional schools in Illinois. I can't speak to NIU, but as for the others, I believe it would take twenty years or more, and vast infusions of cash that the State of Illinois doesn't have, to bring them up to a par with current B1G schools. IMO, it is far more likely that one or more of them would close its doors entirely before any of them emerged as as a B1G caliber institution. B1G membership is not in any of their strategic plans.

Texas Tech and Texas didn't stand in the way so aggy gov goodhair wasn't forced to call the leg back into session. The only school that fought to keep aggy was baylor. The rest of us could care less.

If Texas Tech and Texas cared, you can damn well bet, aggy goodhair would have called the leg back and aggy would still be here. Like I said the perfect political storm, Aggy gov and their 2 main rivals not giving a crap if aggy went to the SEC or BFE.

The SEC wanted Texas and the 26 million people that live here. aggy was a by product of that. Nothing more, nothing less.

I honestly hope it doesn't happen but I would love to see the Texoma 4 in the SEC west. The desperation/crying/wailing out of aggyland would be hilarious.

(04-03-2014 12:44 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 09:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  The UT president at the time specifically said Bullock never pressured UT on the issue and that he was not one for subtlety. But he did say staying with Tech was politically necessary with the chairman of the House appropriations committee a Tech grad and the head of the senate finance committee from Lubbock (although a UT grad), in addition to Bullock's ties. So at least with Tech-for Texas anyway-the pressure was more understood. They didn't have to call UT into a room. UT considered going to the Pac with Tech, but the Pac wouldn't buy it. So UT planned to go to the Big 12 with Tech.
It was with Texas and Tech on board that the famous meeting came with the UT officials, the A&M's officials and the politicians. A&M got called into the other room with the politicians and "straightened out."

Some get it while others bury their head in the sand. Well said

Look! More revisionist history!

Quote:"Bullock, invigorated by the triumph and praise of the previous legislative session, summoned Bill Cunningham of UT and Herb Richardson of A&M to his office early in 1994, when the conference shuffle — converting the Big 8 to the Big 10 — was on the verge of being a done deal. Glaring at the two men, he said, 'You're taking Tech and Baylor, or you're not taking anything. I'll cut your money off, and you can join privately if you want, but you won't get another nickel of state money.'

"The university representatives apparently believed the subject was open for discussion, that they had a negotiating position. When they expressed hesitation, Bullock cut them off. 'If you want to try me, go ahead,' he said.

"'Governor, we understand,' Cunningham said.

Well...it seems that UT was NOT championing Tech after all! It looks like they were planning to leave without tech but they had to be "brought into the office and straightened out" too! And look, it wasn't asking nicely either! It was political black mail via threats to cut off funding!

But hey, dont let facts get in the way of trying to act tough in front of the other schools!

(04-03-2014 01:04 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  Texas Tech and Texas didn't stand in the way so aggy gov goodhair wasn't forced to call the leg back into session. The only school that fought to keep aggy was baylor. The rest of us could care less.

If Texas Tech and Texas cared, you can damn well bet, aggy goodhair would have called the leg back and aggy would still be here. Like I said the perfect political storm, Aggy gov and their 2 main rivals not giving a crap if aggy went to the SEC or BFE.

The SEC wanted Texas and the 26 million people that live here. aggy was a by product of that. Nothing more, nothing less.

I honestly hope it doesn't happen but I would love to see the Texoma 4 in the SEC west. The desperation/crying/wailing out of aggyland would be hilarious.

Oh look at the puffed out bird chest!

If Mighty Tech and UT had told Perry to call the legislature it would have happened! Please!

Now you've just been reduced to spewing flat out techy fantasy about what you WISH would have happened because the facts are all against your little narrative!

(04-03-2014 01:02 PM)ken d Wrote:  I'd guess since Illinois is actually exploring the idea of improving a school, there is a strong likelihood they could accomplish such a task in a reasonable amount of time--it's not like they would need to construct entirely new campuses or something.

I don't know how much you know, or think you know, about the directional schools in Illinois. I can't speak to NIU, but as for the others, I believe it would take twenty years or more, and vast infusions of cash that the State of Illinois doesn't have, to bring them up to a par with current B1G schools. IMO, it is far more likely that one or more of them would close its doors entirely before any of them emerged as as a B1G caliber institution. B1G membership is not in any of their strategic plans.

What about them would take "vast infusions of cash" or "twenty years or more" to bring them up to Big Ten standards?

Are there no campuses? No classrooms? The state of Illinois politicians believe there are already lots of good Big Ten level students available that might go to such a school. Obviously there would be a need for academic upgrade at any of them, meaning some new professors. Better research? The state of Illinois has lots of major corporations and government connections to help with something like that.

As far as athletic complexes there is probably a strong need for upgrades for some things like football stadiums, but it isn't like none of these places have basketball arenas or track and field or whatever facilities. Upgrades are possible--although of course they could get pricy.

Illinois politicians probably know what the economic outlook is for their state, but they seem to believe they could invest money in a school and seem to understand they would have to invest money in a school to improve it to Big Ten levels. What's more, they are working on it now as we speak. Therefore it is possible that this could come to be.

Really, this isn't worth your time people.

(04-03-2014 01:06 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 12:44 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 09:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  The UT president at the time specifically said Bullock never pressured UT on the issue and that he was not one for subtlety. But he did say staying with Tech was politically necessary with the chairman of the House appropriations committee a Tech grad and the head of the senate finance committee from Lubbock (although a UT grad), in addition to Bullock's ties. So at least with Tech-for Texas anyway-the pressure was more understood. They didn't have to call UT into a room. UT considered going to the Pac with Tech, but the Pac wouldn't buy it. So UT planned to go to the Big 12 with Tech.
It was with Texas and Tech on board that the famous meeting came with the UT officials, the A&M's officials and the politicians. A&M got called into the other room with the politicians and "straightened out."

Some get it while others bury their head in the sand. Well said

Look! More revisionist history!

Quote:"Bullock, invigorated by the triumph and praise of the previous legislative session, summoned Bill Cunningham of UT and Herb Richardson of A&M to his office early in 1994, when the conference shuffle — converting the Big 8 to the Big 10 — was on the verge of being a done deal. Glaring at the two men, he said, 'You're taking Tech and Baylor, or you're not taking anything. I'll cut your money off, and you can join privately if you want, but you won't get another nickel of state money.'

"The university representatives apparently believed the subject was open for discussion, that they had a negotiating position. When they expressed hesitation, Bullock cut them off. 'If you want to try me, go ahead,' he said.

"'Governor, we understand,' Cunningham said.

Well...it seems that UT was NOT championing Tech after all! It looks like they were planning to leave without tech but they had to be "brought into the office and straightened out" too! And look, it wasn't asking nicely either! It was political black mail via threats to cut off funding!

But hey, dont let facts get in the way of trying to act tough in front of the other schools!

My comments are from a book written by Cunningham himself. He was talking with the Pac about Texas and Tech and was keeping the Tech president informed. When the meeting came, he said A&M and Bullock went into another room and he doesn't know what they discussed. He did say someone else told him Bullock made some comment about A&M acting like a bunch of tin soldiers.

The San Antonio Express article that most have seen never mentions UT talking (much) at all and that is consistent with Cunningham's account. Cunningham contradicts that Bullock ever threatened UT. UT already knew what was necessary. Cunningham also says he thought A&M President Mobley wanted to go to the Big 12, but the regents had other ideas. It was the regents who had to be "convinced" by the politicians.

Excerpt from the San Antonio Express article (which someone not to long ago said wasn't on line anymore):

It was Monday, Feb. 20, 1994 — Presidents' Day, a state holiday. Bullock began rounding up his troops. He called Cunningham and requested an immediate meeting. William Mobley, A&M's chancellor, and Dean Gage, A&M's interim president, were in Temple on a facilities tour when Bullock reached them by phone. Bullock wanted to talk — now. Mobley and Gage replied that they couldn't fit it into their schedules.

Bullock bristled.

"I would think that if the Lieutenant Governor requested a meeting you would show him the courtesy," Bullock said angrily. Then he slammed down the phone. Minutes later, the phone rang.

Mobley and Gage had suddenly found time to talk.


The plot revealed


The group convened in Bullock's office in a state building next to the Capitol. On hand were Bullock, Cunningham, Sibley, Montford, Mobley, Gage and Bill Clayton, a former house speaker who now sat on A&M's board of regents.

Cunningham told Bullock that, indeed, UT was on the verge of joining the Big Eight. By then, Bullock and the others were prepared to act — prepared to wield the monolithic clout that stems from rural politics and lengthy tenure — to buy Baylor and Tech passage out of the doomed SWC.

The four other SWC schools — SMU, TCU, Rice and Houston, all based in metropolitan communities — found few advocates for their interests.

The fate of the three private schools in the group — SMU, TCU and Rice — was of little concern to the decision-makers in Austin.

Even among the four breakaway schools, unity was difficult to attain. One sticking point for a four-way exodus from the SWC was A&M, which still clung to aspirations of joining recently departed SWC member Arkansas in the Southeastern Conference.

According to witnesses — and also Clayton's testimony in the 1996 misappropriation of funds trial of former A&M regents chairman Ross Margraves — Clayton balked at the idea of the Aggies joining the Big Eight.

"No, you're wrong about that" Bullock told him. "You need to come with us to the Big Eight."

It so happened that A&M needed two votes from the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, which governs construction projects at state colleges, to proceed with the construction of its $33.4 million basketball and convocation facility, which became Reed Arena.

"Don't worry about it," Bullock told Clayton. "I'll get them for you tomorrow."

On Feb. 24 — just four days after Bullock's round of emergency phone calls — the Big Eight officially absorbed UT, A&M, Baylor and Tech, and a new league was formed, using a name the Big Eight had curiously trademarked years earlier: The Big 12.

(04-03-2014 02:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 01:06 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 12:44 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  

(04-02-2014 09:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  The UT president at the time specifically said Bullock never pressured UT on the issue and that he was not one for subtlety. But he did say staying with Tech was politically necessary with the chairman of the House appropriations committee a Tech grad and the head of the senate finance committee from Lubbock (although a UT grad), in addition to Bullock's ties. So at least with Tech-for Texas anyway-the pressure was more understood. They didn't have to call UT into a room. UT considered going to the Pac with Tech, but the Pac wouldn't buy it. So UT planned to go to the Big 12 with Tech.
It was with Texas and Tech on board that the famous meeting came with the UT officials, the A&M's officials and the politicians. A&M got called into the other room with the politicians and "straightened out."

Some get it while others bury their head in the sand. Well said

Look! More revisionist history!

Quote:"Bullock, invigorated by the triumph and praise of the previous legislative session, summoned Bill Cunningham of UT and Herb Richardson of A&M to his office early in 1994, when the conference shuffle — converting the Big 8 to the Big 10 — was on the verge of being a done deal. Glaring at the two men, he said, 'You're taking Tech and Baylor, or you're not taking anything. I'll cut your money off, and you can join privately if you want, but you won't get another nickel of state money.'

"The university representatives apparently believed the subject was open for discussion, that they had a negotiating position. When they expressed hesitation, Bullock cut them off. 'If you want to try me, go ahead,' he said.

"'Governor, we understand,' Cunningham said.

Well...it seems that UT was NOT championing Tech after all! It looks like they were planning to leave without tech but they had to be "brought into the office and straightened out" too! And look, it wasn't asking nicely either! It was political black mail via threats to cut off funding!

But hey, dont let facts get in the way of trying to act tough in front of the other schools!

My comments are from a book written by Cunningham himself. He was talking with the Pac about Texas and Tech and was keeping the Tech president informed. When the meeting came, he said A&M and Bullock went into another room and he doesn't know what they discussed. He did say someone else told him Bullock made some comment about A&M acting like a bunch of tin soldiers.

The San Antonio Express article that most have seen never mentions UT talking at all and that is consistent with Cunningham's account. Cunningham contradicts that Bullock ever threatened UT. UT already knew what was necessary. Cunningham also says he thought A&M President Mobley wanted to go to the Big 12, but the regents had other ideas. It was the regents who had to be "convinced" by the politicians.

We'll probably never know what really went on behind closed doors, but I think what is clear is the general gist of what was happening:

UT approached the PAC but couldn't make the deal work.

UT then approaches the B8 who are cool with taking UT alone.

This is the part JML is contesting but I ask, if thats not the case, why did Bullock have to bring in Cunningham and the A&M reps to talk about including Tech (and Baylor)? Because they were not originally going to be included in the Big 8 expansion. And Bullock may or may not have threatened funding but he never had to directly say it because Bullock and Cunningham both knew his fellow tech grad controlled the ways and means committee and could make it happen.

So UT probably did not have a problem bringing Tech along for political purposes to smooth things over. That's not being contested. It just proves the point that JML keeps fighting which is that The Big 8 didn't want Tech and it took political wrangling by Bob Bullock to ensure they (and Baylor) were included.

And historical note: Mobley was the one who reached out to LSU about A&M joining the SEC. He was definitely in the Pro-SEC camp.

Illinois State Senators grandstanding on something they cannot actually do ...

... morphs into a pro and con Texas Tech argument.

Because why wouldn't it?

Cunningham doesn't dispute that political influence caused him to support bringing Texas Tech along. He just was politically astute enough that he didn't have to be told. The A&M regents had to have it spelled out for them.

From Cunningham's account, it seems that UT and Tech were going to the Big 12, but A&M was necessary to get Baylor in. "I believe the real reason Bullock called the meeting...was that he was concerned that the A&M regents still wanted to go to the SEC....he may have felt a need to put some of his famous pressure on the A&M regents. Fortunately, UT was out of the line of fire." "After the meeting, Bullock was kind enough to let me use his office phone to call Baylor President Herb Reynolds to tell him that Baylor had made the cut."

He doesn't say anything about telling Tech.

As for Mobley, Cunningham says A&M became more interested over time in the Big 8/10/12 option. Whether Cunningham only thought Mobley preferred it, whether Mobley did prefer it or whether Mobley was just more politically astute than his regents, Mobley will have to tell that story.

(04-03-2014 03:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  Cunningham doesn't dispute that political influence caused him to support bringing Texas Tech along. He just was politically astute enough that he didn't have to be told. The A&M regents had to have it spelled out for them.

From Cunningham's account, it seems that UT and Tech were going to the Big 12, but A&M was necessary to get Baylor in. "I believe the real reason Bullock called the meeting...was that he was concerned that the A&M regents still wanted to go to the SEC....he may have felt a need to put some of his famous pressure on the A&M regents. Fortunately, UT was out of the line of fire." "After the meeting, Bullock was kind enough to let me use his office phone to call Baylor President Herb Reynolds to tell him that Baylor had made the cut."

He doesn't say anything about telling Tech.

As for Mobley, Cunningham says A&M became more interested over time in the Big 8/10/12 option. Whether Cunningham only thought Mobley preferred it, whether Mobley did prefer it or whether Mobley was just more politically astute than his regents, Mobley will have to tell that story.

Of course they had to lean on A&M harder than UT.

UT was already going to the Big 8 anyway so they didn't need a lot (if any) pressure applied to them to agree to bring Tech along for political reasons (every other first hand source on the subject indicates Tech was not part of the original deal until Bullock and friends started making phone calls).

A&M was trying to go to a different conference and the need to make us "change our minds" clearly showed that the Big 8 would only accept Baylor IF they got A&M as well.

Mobley was definitely pro-SEC. Like I said, he was the one who personally contacted LSU's AD and president about sponsorship for the SEC.

But he also knew when he had his hands tied politically and could either say yes and keep funding going and get Reed built or he could say no and watch our funding get cut and potentially lose Reed. Not exactly a House of Cards conundrum.

From the time we entered the SWC, I feel like Texas has had Tech's back no matter the situation. Texas, unlike aggy, realizes that our association is beneficial for both schools and that it helps the state of Texas.

I certainly understand it but I get why so many Tech alums/students hate aggy and their ridiculous delusion. Aggy will not help anyone make the state better. Maybe they are scared, maybe they are afraid of the competition. I don't know but aggy definitely has an inferiority complex and it starts at the highest levels all the way down to the t-shirts.

Honestly, I'm glad they left and I hope politicians don't force either Texas or Texas Tech to ever play them again.

yes aggie tends to be a jerk to tech & UH. but IMO aggie has a legitimate reason for doing so.

texas see's aggie as a legitimate threat so they are always trying to bash aggie and/or drag aggie down. One of the ways they do that is by trying to imply that aggie is on techs level not UTs level.

so when aggie tries to bash tech i don't see them as doing it because they want to be mean, I see it as a pure defensive measure.

the way those 3 + UH treat each other is hilarious and reminds me of a giant family feud. But at the end of the day the reason things are the way they are ultimately comes back to UT and widespread ego of texans in general.

So now we're to JML left with nothing but "I hate aggy".

Which means he's lost the argument and has nothing left but empty whining and bashing.

I'll take it!

I didn't lose anything. aggy doesn't help anyone because they are afraid of competition. Elevating Tech and even UH academically would be a threat to the delusional ******* in College Station. We've already seen what Tech can do athletically against the fightin farmers on the Brazos.

How bout this, get a degree from aggyland and then brag about the "greatness" of aggyland.

(04-03-2014 06:43 PM)john01992 Wrote:  yes aggie tends to be a jerk to tech & UH. but IMO aggie has a legitimate reason for doing so.Not really

texas see's aggie as a legitimate threat so they are always trying to bash aggie and/or drag aggie down. One of the ways they do that is by trying to imply that aggie is on techs level not UTs level.UT will never see aggy as a legitimate threat because they never will be. Texas has been bashing aggy skulls for over a 100 years.

so when aggie tries to bash tech i don't see them as doing it because they want to be mean, I see it as a pure defensive measure.They come across looking foolish and stupid

the way those 3 + UH treat each other is hilarious and reminds me of a giant family feud. But at the end of the day the reason things are the way they are ultimately comes back to UT and widespread ego of texans in general. Texans have a ton of pride. It doesn't matter if you are the janitor working down at Joe's car shop and sportin an aggy t-shirt, you can damn well bet they care and will stand up for their "school". Same with almost every big school in the State of Texas. Texas is basically its own country, we know, we act like it and it bothers people, so be it.

Oh so now we're trying keep tech down academically because we're scared?

Well if Tech is such a big threat to A&M then explain to me this: why is tech the only big univesity that is dropping the algebra 2 requirement?

Quote:So far, the admissions standards have been reduced at only one of the state’s six public universities and at least one independent public university. A spokesman for Texas Tech University, which enrolls about 32,000 undergraduates at its flagship campus in Lubbock, said the school was updating its admissions standards to no longer include algebra II.

The AAU is going to LOVE that on your application!

(04-03-2014 07:18 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Oh so now we're trying keep tech down academically because we're scared?

Well if Tech is such a big threat to A&M then explain to me this: why is tech the only big univesity that is dropping the algebra 2 requirement?

Quote:So far, the admissions standards have been reduced at only one of the state’s six public universities and at least one independent public university. A spokesman for Texas Tech University, which enrolls about 32,000 undergraduates at its flagship campus in Lubbock, said the school was updating its admissions standards to no longer include algebra II.

The AAU is going to LOVE that on your application!

Wow, that stings, LOL. Remind us again where you went to school? Blinn? Sam? SFA?

Remind us what county overwhelming voted to keep Tech and UH from getting NRUF money?

When aggy supports deserving schools in this state that should be moved into the next tier, it will be the 1st time ever. When aggy gets over their inferiority complex about being 2nd fiddle in the state of Texas and realize helping other schools helps aggy, will be the 1st time ever.

Like I said Bob Bullock is turning over in his grave. That small little gesture to help aggy out has bit him square in the behind. No wonder the entire state laughs at aggy grads and their delusional t-shirt fans.

Yup, didn't think you wanted to address your school's embarrassing decision to lower it's academic standards.

Dodge, deflect and Ad Hominem all you like, doesn't change the fact that Tech is lowering the academic bar.

Would you like to comment on that or vainly to try to distract again?