(04-01-2014 08:57 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 08:53 AM)Paul M Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 08:50 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 12:22 AM)EagleX Wrote:  Yes, the obamites should be very proud that -- in the very best case, yet highly unlikely scenario -- they almost insured as many people as they cancelled.

From the article:

Quote:Rand's figures support earlier estimates that fewer than 1 million people who had health plans in 2013 are now uninsured because of cancellations. Insurance companies that issued the cancellation notices say they've retained "the vast majority" of their old customers, mostly by moving them into new, compliant, plans.

Do you understand that?

Clearly you don't. 7 million > 1 million.

So you don't.

Most of the Dr.'s at the Cleveland Clinic are foreign. A lot from India. That is the future. You do realize that the top 10% of India's graduates are the TOTAL of our graduates.

(04-01-2014 09:30 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Most of the Dr.'s at the Cleveland Clinic are foreign. A lot from India. That is the future. You do realize that the top 10% of India's graduates are the TOTAL of our graduates.

I'd hate to be in a hallway when the public address announcement said "Dr Patel to emergency."

We exceeded our number!




April fools!

(04-01-2014 09:30 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Most of the Dr.'s at the Cleveland Clinic are foreign. A lot from India. That is the future. You do realize that the top 10% of India's graduates are the TOTAL of our graduates.

That probably says a lot about the quality of education American kids get in our school system.

Can our GOVERNMENT do anything better than the private sector can?

NO.....much less the medical profession and your own PERSONAL health.....

Guess this regime is gonna stomp out disease just like it kicked ass in all the other areas ..........domestic and foreign.

(04-01-2014 09:48 AM)tigerjaws Wrote:  Can our GOVERNMENT do anything better than the private sector can?

NO.....much less the medical profession and your own PERSONAL health.....

Guess this regime is gonna stomp out disease just like it kicked ass in all the other areas ..........domestic and foreign.

Nope, they are gonna stomp us out, as fast as they possibly can.

ZEROCARE PLAN
1)Don't Get Sick

2)If you do get sick, DIE QUICKLY

here is the real reason that the obamites want as many people as possible imprisoned in the exchanges, irrespective of how old or sick they are: because if they have 7 million souls ensnared by this ridiculous sh!t, it's almost impossible to undo. can't you hear the screaming now? "YOU'RE KILLING MILLIONS OF POOR PEOPLE!" my God, considering the petulant, passive aggressive pouting coming out of the Ovarian Office now -- just imagine how premenstrual they will get . . .

(04-01-2014 12:13 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It will be at 7 million.

OK, so Obama cancels nearly 7 million insurance plans and when they go into Obamacare the left says "see, the ACA is hugely popular. This is a success." Dude, Obama cancelled the plans these people had; he created his own market by use of force and you tout that as a success?

This is going to cost almost $3 trillion over the next decade and all we did was move people off one plan and into another, and in many cases the plan is worse than what they had before and costs more. What did we gain?

(04-01-2014 09:30 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Most of the Dr.'s at the Cleveland Clinic are foreign. A lot from India. That is the future. You do realize that the top 10% of India's graduates are the TOTAL of our graduates.

Given that India's population is over a billion, that's not surprising.

(04-01-2014 07:36 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Torch.

Get out of the bubble.

3. Some parts of the law are popular: It's the ultimate paradox. Overall, Obamacare remains mostly unpopular with the public, but many Americans give a thumbs up to most specific parts of the Affordable Care Act that have been tested in surveys .

The Bloomberg poll was the most recent study to ask about the law's specific components, and its findings are similar to what previous surveys have found. Nearly three-quarters questioned in that survey said the provision that allowed children up to age 26 to remain on their parents' policies should be kept. Nearly two-thirds said the same thing about the component that prohibits insurance companies from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions.

A majority also wanted to keep the provision eliminating lifetime caps on how much insurance companies must pay for a person's health care.

But by a slight 51% to 47% margin, Americans wanted to repeal the individual mandate, which forces everyone to have health insurance or face penalties.

Democrats defending the overall law tout the popularity of many of the specific provisions.

"Even if you choose not to use the exchanges at all, you stand to benefit from the Affordable Care Act," wrote Democratic strategist Paul Begala in an op-ed Monday on CNN.com.

"If you or someone in your family has a pre-existing condition, you are a winner under the ACA. Ditto if, God forbid, you have an illness or an accident that would have maxed-out your pre-Obamacare coverage limit: the ACA outlaws coverage caps," added Begala, a longtime adviser to both Bill and HIllary Clinton, who's also an adviser to Priorities USA, the super PAC set up to support Obama's 2012 re-election that's now raising money for a potential Hillary Clinton campaign in 2016.

Mach, the f_cking law IS NOT doing anything it was touted as doing save for a couple of specific provisions.

It is NOT insuring the 40 million this whole fiasco was targeting. It is NOT cutting the cost of health insurance. You CAN'T keep the plans you were on and you CAN'T keep your doctor in many cases.

One big f_cking lie in a federal government power grab. All this is doing is vastly increasing those on the government dole via subsidy and they are doing it by making the paying customers pay for both their health insurance AND those on the dole. Effectively a tax increase without having to politically live with the consequences of voting to increase taxes.

That's the point that went over a number of heads. The top 1% is probably the size of our entire graduating class. It's a numbers game and we will insource talent.

(04-01-2014 07:36 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Torch.

Get out of the bubble.

3. Some parts of the law are popular: It's the ultimate paradox. Overall, Obamacare remains mostly unpopular with the public, but many Americans give a thumbs up to most specific parts of the Affordable Care Act that have been tested in surveys .

This is not a paradox. The law as a whole is detrimental, even if people do like the idea of freebies for themselves.

This is not a bubble, it's the ability to analyze something in its entirety, not just to cherry-pick those pieces that support a preferred agenda.

I have that ability, you lack it. It's why I do science, and you teach astrology.

The Actual Numbers: 14.6 - 22.1 Million
by Charles Gaba on Tue, 04/01/2014 - 12:58am

7.08 Million Exchange-based QHPs (estimate)
+ 71,000 SHOP QHPs
+ 9.0 Million total OFF-Exchange QHPs (estimate from the Rand Corp.)
+ 4.71 Million New "Strict Expansion" Medicaid enrollees
+ 1.80 Million New "Woodworker" Medicaid enrollees (estimate)
+ 3.10 Million 19-26 Year Olds on their Parent's Plans (estimate)
- 3.70 Million Cancelled Non-Compliant Policies
(see? I told you I'd subtract these once I knew the total number of off-exchange QHPs!)

= appx. 22.1 Million People (at the high end) or 14.6 Million (at the low end)

Of course, you can quibble about how many of the 9 million off-exchange QHPs were previously uninsured, or how many of the cancelled plans were swapped out with QHPs from the exchanges vs the off-exchange amount. You can quibble about whether the "sub26ers" should be 3.1 million or only 2.5 million. You can argue bout whether "woodworkers" should "count" or not (as if a massive outreach campaign which encourages previously-eligible people to enroll in a program they qualify for isn't an accomplishment to be proud of). You can argue about whether unpaid QHPs should be counted (yet) or not.

The bottom line is this: No matter how you slice it, this is a ton of people receiving decent healthcare coverage who either a) didn't have anything before or b) can no longer be dropped, denied or bankrupted by coverage that was scattershot, piecemeal or shoddy.

(04-01-2014 10:36 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  The Actual Numbers: 14.6 - 22.1 Million
by Charles Gaba on Tue, 04/01/2014 - 12:58am

7.08 Million Exchange-based QHPs (estimate)
+ 71,000 SHOP QHPs
+ 9.0 Million total OFF-Exchange QHPs (estimate from the Rand Corp.)
+ 4.71 Million New "Strict Expansion" Medicaid enrollees
+ 1.80 Million New "Woodworker" Medicaid enrollees (estimate)
+ 3.10 Million 19-26 Year Olds on their Parent's Plans (estimate)
- 3.70 Million Cancelled Non-Compliant Policies
(see? I told you I'd subtract these once I knew the total number of off-exchange QHPs!)

= appx. 22.1 Million People (at the high end) or 14.6 Million (at the low end)

Of course, you can quibble about how many of the 9 million off-exchange QHPs were previously uninsured, or how many of the cancelled plans were swapped out with QHPs from the exchanges vs the off-exchange amount. You can quibble about whether the "sub26ers" should be 3.1 million or only 2.5 million. You can argue bout whether "woodworkers" should "count" or not (as if a massive outreach campaign which encourages previously-eligible people to enroll in a program they qualify for isn't an accomplishment to be proud of). You can argue about whether unpaid QHPs should be counted (yet) or not.

The bottom line is this: No matter how you slice it, this is a ton of people receiving decent healthcare coverage who either a) didn't have anything before or b) can no longer be dropped, denied or bankrupted by coverage that was scattershot, piecemeal or shoddy.

Dawg - same for you as Mach (notice he hasn't responded to what I posted)

It is NOT insuring the 40 million this whole fiasco was targeting. It is NOT cutting the cost of health insurance. You CAN'T keep the plans you were on and you CAN'T keep your doctor in many cases.

One big f_cking lie in a federal government power grab. All this is doing is vastly increasing those on the government dole via subsidy and they are doing it by making the paying customers pay for both their health insurance AND those on the dole. Effectively a tax increase without having to politically live with the consequences of voting to increase taxes.

It has failed every metric it was touted as and is no more than another government wealth transfer.

Sorry if I think it S_cks.

(04-01-2014 10:36 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  The bottom line is this: No matter how you slice it, this is a ton of people receiving decent healthcare coverage who either a) didn't have anything before or b) can no longer be dropped, denied or bankrupted by coverage that was scattershot, piecemeal or shoddy.

The IRS and the Gov't can bankrupt you. You'll be grease under their treads and no recourse.

(04-01-2014 09:48 AM)tigerjaws Wrote:  Can our GOVERNMENT do anything better than the private sector can?

NO.....much less the medical profession and your own PERSONAL health.....

Guess this regime is gonna stomp out disease just like it kicked ass in all the other areas ..........domestic and foreign.

Ummm...you do realize that the ACA basically just puts people into plans from private insurance companies don't you? The government isn't providing their care. Doctors and hospitals are still doing that.

(04-01-2014 11:00 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 09:48 AM)tigerjaws Wrote:  Can our GOVERNMENT do anything better than the private sector can?

NO.....much less the medical profession and your own PERSONAL health.....

Guess this regime is gonna stomp out disease just like it kicked ass in all the other areas ..........domestic and foreign.

Ummm...you do realize that the ACA basically just puts people into plans from private insurance companies don't you? The government isn't providing their care. Doctors and hospitals are still doing that.

Ummmmm.........Docs are regulated by the gov and overwhelmed with paperwork and rules, while getting under-reimbursed.....the good and ethical Docs are leaving mainstream medicine........The Gov. wants to do the thinking for Docs, and if you do not know that to be the case, you are either uninformed or simply have not discussed this krapp with a real MD....You may soon enough be on the patient end of things, talk with the Doc then about what I just typed

Tiger, bring some facts and not stupid republican talking points. There's no evidence of this alleged mass doctor exodus or of it being related to Obamacare. And congress is working now on squaring up the doctor reimbursement pay issue.

And I have seen many doctors with my wife and daughter recently. Doctors worry about patients and patient care. They don't waste their time complaining about the ACA.

That's the biggest flaw in their argument I believe. They are saying we are increasing demand because now sick people are going to be treated. Think of how callous that sounds to anyone outside of their line of thinking? It's a loser from the get go. So we have more people who were sick before that are now able to get treatment???? and they want to campaign against that??? It will play well in their primary but every day that the ACA is around the worse it will be for the GOP. It won't be the boogeyman that they are portraying and everybody that is helped by it will continue to grow. It's a long term loser for them. They know it too. At least the ones who can see three steps ahead.