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College Decision For Son
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tigergreen Offline
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Post: #21
RE: College Decision For Son
(04-01-2014 01:36 PM)TiggerFan Wrote:  For what it is worth, my son went to Alabama. I was strapped and could not afford a fraternity at the time (his roommate spent $7,000 in the first semester)

04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop
....I'll bet my parents were glad I was GDI. Holy cow.
04-01-2014 03:51 PM
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21-17 Best Time I Ever Ha Offline
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Post: #22
RE: College Decision For Son
Just my two cents, and a slightly different take on it. And I know it is working out for K2's son, and I am sure it is the best decision for all. I wish him great success in college.

My daughter attended Mizzou as her first choice because of the best and oldest journalism school in the nation being there. We both fell in love with it after visiting several other schools, including DePauw, TCU, and SMU where she turned down a completely free, $30,000 a year ride. Mizzou was her choice because it had great Midwestern values and down-to-earth students and very good academics, not to mention the gorgeous campus. We were told when she graduated, the only competition she would have in the journalism career world would be her own classmates. And that turned out to be true.

Her time there was wonderful and led right into an amazing career. Since it was out-of-state for us, she was left with $40,000 in student loans, and I was left with about $15,000 in parent loans, all money well spent, we consider, for the great job she got right out of school and the memories she has of her college life and the great time she spent there. The experience, for her, was priceless. She has no regrets and will be proud of her college until the day she dies.

It concerns me that today colleges are so expensive and so many people base their decision solely on what is the cheapast path toward getting a job. What has happened to the desire for a world-class liberal arts education that will equip one to understand the world in all its complexity and instill a lifelong desire for learning? What has happened to the desire for a well-rounded and rich college experience in an environment that will fully engage the student and where the student earnestly desires to spend 4-5 years? To me, this type of education is not a luxury but an indispensable path to not only being truly and deeply educated, but also to propelling one on to an enriching and evolving career, not just a "job."

There are literally dozens of ways to pay for whichever college one chooses, with the most expensive colleges having the most aide available and often, like the Ivy Leagues and Vanderbilt, a completely free ride for any admitted student who needs it. And there ARE vast differences in the education one receives at different colleges; vast differences in the quality of faculty, facilities, students; academic programs, including overseas opportunities, in-town internships and mentoring, special honors programs and "colleges", and tutoring, and even enriching experiences in the location of the school, whether it be a great city, like Chicago or New York or Atlanta, or a wonderful region to explore like the Northeast or the Northwest. Many things to consider when choosing a college. Great state universities, wonderful small and large private schools, and affordable, excellent junior colleges. You would have to visit several of each type to understand the amazing and varied opportunities that exist in education today.

I would hate to think one of my children would rather go to a lesser college and graduate with less debt just so he or she could have a mega-wedding. Au contraire, it would seem wiser to graduate from the best college, get a great job, and then you would have enough money for the wedding of your choice or a house downpayment, even factoring in student debt. My daughter had no trouble purchasing a house seven years after she graduated, despite owing thousands in tuition loans.

I do think it can be very important when looking for a job or applying to grad school as to where you attended undergraduate school. I know Vanderbilt certainly weighs the academic strength of your undergraduate school for admission to their grad schools. I also know many companies hire employees from favorite colleges; Autozone loves U. of Miss graduates. Ironically, my daughter got hired at a local company mostly on the strength of her high school education here in Memphis and the fact her bosses attended the "brother" school. The private school tuition really paid off there!

There are big differences in colleges in this country and the education you receive there. There are ways to afford them all. The "fit" for each student is different and important. Ideally, the best path might be to study real hard in high school, and obtain a free ride to one of the very best universities in the nation.
04-03-2014 12:28 PM
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k2tigers Offline
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Post: #23
RE: College Decision For Son
^^ agree 21-17

thanks - I loved Missouri too, but it was not meant to be - Miami OH is a super place, academically and culturally, corporate recruiters love it, etc.

So yes, while it is a hefty investment, it's one I am proud to be able to help with.
04-03-2014 01:02 PM
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covingtontiger Offline
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Post: #24
RE: College Decision For Son
I think that if you still owe thousands of dollars in college loans 7 years after graduation, that is much more of a burden than I want my kids or grandkids to bear. Some people never pay those loans at all, as I understand it.

Personally, I think a better-learned life lesson is to pay as you go. I am less impressed by the name on the diploma than I am by the ability to live within our means. I am debt-free. My kids got out of college debt-free. I will encourage my grandkids to do the same. I have been socking away money for all 6 of mine since the day they were born.

If you prefer the live it up, spend now, pay later approach, then you should do it. As for me and my house, we chose a different approach and have been very satisfied with it.

And, as a guy who has worked for two Fortune 500 companies and now owns his own business, let me tell you that IMHO, the college name on the diploma has very little to do with who gets hired or who advances in a company.
04-03-2014 01:24 PM
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21-17 Best Time I Ever Ha Offline
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Post: #25
RE: College Decision For Son
With all due respect, Covington, everyone does what they are comfortable with.

It's been the attitude of my children and me that if your student loans enable you to begin making a good salary right out of school, then your loans have been a good investment rather than a burden. My children do not feel burdened by their loans. They actually started out making more than I do and have no trouble paying their loans back. Repaying their loans has been a good exercise for them, and reminds them of the value of their education. I assure you they won't shirk their duty, and the Federal govt. will not allow them to. There are very few ways to get out of Federal loans.

I think the life lesson my children have learned is that a great effort and a large investment can pay great dividends down the road. Most people borrow money to buy a home. So, wise borrowing, as opposed to frivolous borrowing, is a valuable life lesson.

It would have been impossible for me as a single mom to afford college educations for three children who are only five years apart in age. Borrowing was absolutely necessary to attend the colleges they chose, considering each one was $30,000 a year. Choosing a college that required that type of commitment was also a valuable life lesson which required visits to several schools and a lot of soul searching by each child. They grew up a lot even before they stepped foot on campus. Living away from home was another maturing step.

I don't consider my children "lived it up" at school. They all worked on- and off-campus jobs every semester they were there and got grants and scholarships, too, which required certain GPA's and test scores. They attended summer school or worked every summer, and rarely came home.

Their tuition was an investment in an education that will allow them to enjoy their life and the advantages a good job brings them that cannot be measured in terms of dollars. The name on their diploma represents the hard work they did, the rigorous academic environment they were in, that their schools had an honor code, and that they embraced and understood the value of great teachers and solid academics. The name on the diploma is certainly an advantage when applying to graduate school if the name signifies a rigorous academic and well-respected institution.

As I said, one of my daughters got her job sight-unseen simply because her company hires mainly Mizzou grads, and the other daughter got her job mainly because the bosses respected her very rigorous high school. There has been a direct correlation between their schools and their jobs.

I leapfrogged other applicants for both my City and State jobs mainly because of the name on my diploma, whether that was right or wrong, and I have gotten numerous clients over the years as the owner of my own business because they were graduates of my college or respected my diploma.
04-03-2014 08:07 PM
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k2tigers Offline
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Post: #26
RE: College Decision For Son
(04-03-2014 08:07 PM)21-17 Best Time I Ever Ha Wrote:  With all due respect, Covington, everyone does what they are comfortable with.

It's been the attitude of my children and me that if your student loans enable you to begin making a good salary right out of school, then your loans have been a good investment rather than a burden. My children do not feel burdened by their loans. They actually started out making more than I do and have no trouble paying their loans back. Repaying their loans has been a good exercise for them, and reminds them of the value of their education. I assure you they won't shirk their duty, and the Federal govt. will not allow them to. There are very few ways to get out of Federal loans.

I think the life lesson my children have learned is that a great effort and a large investment can pay great dividends down the road. Most people borrow money to buy a home. So, wise borrowing, as opposed to frivolous borrowing, is a valuable life lesson.

It would have been impossible for me as a single mom to afford college educations for three children who are only five years apart in age. Borrowing was absolutely necessary to attend the colleges they chose, considering each one was $30,000 a year. Choosing a college that required that type of commitment was also a valuable life lesson which required visits to several schools and a lot of soul searching by each child. They grew up a lot even before they stepped foot on campus. Living away from home was another maturing step.

I don't consider my children "lived it up" at school. They all worked on- and off-campus jobs every semester they were there and got grants and scholarships, too, which required certain GPA's and test scores. They attended summer school or worked every summer, and rarely came home.

Their tuition was an investment in an education that will allow them to enjoy their life and the advantages a good job brings them that cannot be measured in terms of dollars. The name on their diploma represents the hard work they did, the rigorous academic environment they were in, that their schools had an honor code, and that they embraced and understood the value of great teachers and solid academics. The name on the diploma is certainly an advantage when applying to graduate school if the name signifies a rigorous academic and well-respected institution.

As I said, one of my daughters got her job sight-unseen simply because her company hires mainly Mizzou grads, and the other daughter got her job mainly because the bosses respected her very rigorous high school. There has been a direct correlation between their schools and their jobs.

I leapfrogged other applicants for both my City and State jobs mainly because of the name on my diploma, whether that was right or wrong, and I have gotten numerous clients over the years as the owner of my own business because they were graduates of my college or respected my diploma.

Understand.

And with all due respect to you, I'll give you a hypothetical situation...

Let's say a certain school costs $200,000 over a four year term

And between diligent savings and measly merit aid, there is $135,000 to fund that......

How does the gap get bridged? Parent, or child? That is a helluva lot of debt to graduate with. Especially tacking on loan interest.

I make a decent salary, but I'm not rich like jammamy. I'm just trying to figure it all out.
04-03-2014 09:11 PM
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Chi-Town Offline
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Post: #27
RE: College Decision For Son
Our daughter was highly sold on Ohio Wesleyan, beautiful school, rich tradition, accolades galore, and they presented her with a 50% scholly on $100k tuition per year.

Or, she qualified for the Gov Distinguished in AR which is full room and board, in the Honors College of any state school, and was matched by almost every private school - Hendrix, OBU, Harding, etc..

Hmmm, a dilemma. $200k for a great school or free for a pretty darn good school.

I am of the belief that a college education is the culmination of what your child has been taught by YOU over the course of their previous 12 years, and if YOU have done your part in their education, the name on the diploma doesn't matter because they will earn the grade that got them there.

Our daughter started this year at the U of A as a college sophomore because of the hard work and credits she earned in HS in PUBLIC schools in AR.

Anyone who sells you on "debt free" is kidding you. We are on a full ride and writing checks every month.

It is absolutely individualized these days.
04-03-2014 11:15 PM
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21-17 Best Time I Ever Ha Offline
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Post: #28
RE: College Decision For Son
(04-03-2014 09:11 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 08:07 PM)21-17 Best Time I Ever Ha Wrote:  With all due respect, Covington, everyone does what they are comfortable with.

It's been the attitude of my children and me that if your student loans enable you to begin making a good salary right out of school, then your loans have been a good investment rather than a burden. My children do not feel burdened by their loans. They actually started out making more than I do and have no trouble paying their loans back. Repaying their loans has been a good exercise for them, and reminds them of the value of their education. I assure you they won't shirk their duty, and the Federal govt. will not allow them to. There are very few ways to get out of Federal loans.

I think the life lesson my children have learned is that a great effort and a large investment can pay great dividends down the road. Most people borrow money to buy a home. So, wise borrowing, as opposed to frivolous borrowing, is a valuable life lesson.

It would have been impossible for me as a single mom to afford college educations for three children who are only five years apart in age. Borrowing was absolutely necessary to attend the colleges they chose, considering each one was $30,000 a year. Choosing a college that required that type of commitment was also a valuable life lesson which required visits to several schools and a lot of soul searching by each child. They grew up a lot even before they stepped foot on campus. Living away from home was another maturing step.

I don't consider my children "lived it up" at school. They all worked on- and off-campus jobs every semester they were there and got grants and scholarships, too, which required certain GPA's and test scores. They attended summer school or worked every summer, and rarely came home.

Their tuition was an investment in an education that will allow them to enjoy their life and the advantages a good job brings them that cannot be measured in terms of dollars. The name on their diploma represents the hard work they did, the rigorous academic environment they were in, that their schools had an honor code, and that they embraced and understood the value of great teachers and solid academics. The name on the diploma is certainly an advantage when applying to graduate school if the name signifies a rigorous academic and well-respected institution.

As I said, one of my daughters got her job sight-unseen simply because her company hires mainly Mizzou grads, and the other daughter got her job mainly because the bosses respected her very rigorous high school. There has been a direct correlation between their schools and their jobs.

I leapfrogged other applicants for both my City and State jobs mainly because of the name on my diploma, whether that was right or wrong, and I have gotten numerous clients over the years as the owner of my own business because they were graduates of my college or respected my diploma.

Understand.

And with all due respect to you, I'll give you a hypothetical situation...

Let's say a certain school costs $200,000 over a four year term

And between diligent savings and measly merit aid, there is $135,000 to fund that......

How does the gap get bridged? Parent, or child? That is a helluva lot of debt to graduate with. Especially tacking on loan interest.

I make a decent salary, but I'm not rich like jammamy. I'm just trying to figure it all out.

It's hard. Very hard. I split the difference with my children.

It also helps if they do the on-campus work-study, which is funded at most schools by the Federal govt. That gives them spending money and gas money, IF they have a car. They have to apply for that at their school in January because sometimes all the jobs are filled quickly.

Let them stay in the cheapest dorm. Limit trips home. Talk to the Financial Aid Office to make sure you have gotten all the aid to which you are entitled. And then, start looking for additional aid online. There is a lot of aid that can be gotten, but you have to find it online and apply for it. Certain professions, churches, even some states have additional aid for college students. And most of it is a grant, which means it does not have to be paid back.

Yes, when all is said and done, it IS a lot of debt to graduate with, but most students have at least $20,000 in debt when they graduate. I think the thing to focus on is the good income that your daughter will achieve at the end of her four years. Is she the kind of student who will make a wise use of her time in college, or is she likely to not stay the course? It is worth it, IMHO, IF you have a child who will work toward the goal and complete it. And hold her to graduating in four years, if possible. It is possible to do that.
04-04-2014 12:40 AM
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Tiger46 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: College Decision For Son
(04-03-2014 11:15 PM)Chi-Town Wrote:  Our daughter was highly sold on Ohio Wesleyan, beautiful school, rich tradition, accolades galore, and they presented her with a 50% scholly on $100k tuition per year.

Or, she qualified for the Gov Distinguished in AR which is full room and board, in the Honors College of any state school, and was matched by almost every private school - Hendrix, OBU, Harding, etc..

Hmmm, a dilemma. $200k for a great school or free for a pretty darn good school.

I am of the belief that a college education is the culmination of what your child has been taught by YOU over the course of their previous 12 years, and if YOU have done your part in their education, the name on the diploma doesn't matter because they will earn the grade that got them there.

Our daughter started this year at the U of A as a college sophomore because of the hard work and credits she earned in HS in PUBLIC schools in AR.

Anyone who sells you on "debt free" is kidding you. We are on a full ride and writing checks every month.

It is absolutely individualized these days.

Congratulations on raising a great kid. Arkansas is a great school. Most of my class went there, a third to ASU and the rest to Harding, AR Tech, UAM etc. We all turned out good. Of course back then, my room and board was about $500 per semester. So I got a great return on my parent's investment in my education. It's getting harder to do that.
04-04-2014 09:18 AM
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newtiger Offline
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Post: #30
RE: College Decision For Son
Mizzous great for networking and partying....tell him to go there.

Probably better co-eds and SEC football to boot.
04-04-2014 02:12 PM
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21-17 Best Time I Ever Ha Offline
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Post: #31
RE: College Decision For Son
Mizzou actually invented the homecoming about a hundred years ago. It's a great state university. Lots of partying, great Greek system, fantastic football atmosphere, really gorgeous campus with a classical campus and a modern campus, polite Midwestern kids who also study a lot.
04-04-2014 09:49 PM
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Post: #32
RE: College Decision For Son
(03-30-2014 07:45 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  for my son, who's a senior at Bentonville

First, I'm proud of him, as he is my only child. Second, I'm struggling because of where he wants to go and what it means financially.

He is down to two schools - University of Missouri and Miami OH. He has been accepted to and received merit aid from both schools. I want him to go to Mizzou. It's closer and a lot cheaper. He seems to have his mind set on Miami of OH in Oxford, OH. These are two good schools IMO. At Mizzou, he would graduate with zero debt. At Miami OH, he (me) would have to cover a ton of debt. I have saved dilligently for his education, but I can't make up everything.

This is an age old question that maybe some of you have been through or will go through at some point. Do I let him go to his choice (Miami OH) and figure out a way to pay for a large part, or do I make him go somewhere where he will graduate debt free? Help.

What is his major? Does he desire to go to grad school?

I would suggest he stay in-state and receive in-state tuition, then if he wants to pursue a higher degree then open up the options more... if he does well as an undergrad he may very well get a full ride at a choice of grad schools.

College is by large part a racket these days... play it smart and cheap as best as you can, especially considering the decreasing value of bachelor degrees (despite the rising cost).
04-05-2014 07:55 PM
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