(03-30-2014 05:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:22 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:42 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Eye opening on how far away from elite level that we are and amazing how far we have fallen in 5 years.

How did you not kill yourself when we were going 13-15 under Tic Price?

Times were different...no national brand, no NBA arena, donations weren't at an all time high, corporate support wasn't as strong, facilities were outdated, pay scale wasn't top 10 in the nation...when the bar gets raised on everything so do expectations.

Duke's brand name and big-time coach really helped them this year.....

(03-31-2014 10:34 AM)TIGER7880 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:22 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:42 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Eye opening on how far away from elite level that we are and amazing how far we have fallen in 5 years.

How did you not kill yourself when we were going 13-15 under Tic Price?

Times were different...no national brand, no NBA arena, donations weren't at an all time high, corporate support wasn't as strong, facilities were outdated, pay scale wasn't top 10 in the nation...when the bar gets raised on everything so do expectations.

Duke's brand name and big-time coach really helped them this year.....

(03-30-2014 06:48 PM)tigerpride96 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:55 PM)TigerK Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:42 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Eye opening on how far away from elite level that we are and amazing how far we have fallen in 5 years.

Sad to say I agree.

I watched several tourney games again recently from our 08 team. It was pretty darned evident our talent now is comparable but man our intensity, defense and play calling is nothing now like it was then.

There's just one X factor and it ain't our players.

Not even close


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(03-31-2014 10:34 AM)TIGER7880 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:22 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:42 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Eye opening on how far away from elite level that we are and amazing how far we have fallen in 5 years.

How did you not kill yourself when we were going 13-15 under Tic Price?

Times were different...no national brand, no NBA arena, donations weren't at an all time high, corporate support wasn't as strong, facilities were outdated, pay scale wasn't top 10 in the nation...when the bar gets raised on everything so do expectations.

Duke's brand name and big-time coach really helped them this year.....

Do us a favor. Go back let's say 30 years and tell us how many nc's Duke,Unc,Kentucky,Kansas ,UCONN,MichSt, Syracuse and uh let's pick Louisville have and how many NBA/pro players they've produced. Then take us and a few other great mid-majors and tell us how many nc's we have and how many NBA players those programs produced.






Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(03-31-2014 12:21 PM)BIGGESTTIGERJLB Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 06:48 PM)tigerpride96 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:55 PM)TigerK Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:42 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Eye opening on how far away from elite level that we are and amazing how far we have fallen in 5 years.

Sad to say I agree.

I watched several tourney games again recently from our 08 team. It was pretty darned evident our talent now is comparable but man our intensity, defense and play calling is nothing now like it was then.

There's just one X factor and it ain't our players.

Not even close


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Lol yeah I was just thinking the opposite of this today. That is part of the problem.......some people thought this team was comparable to the 08' team.

And you're right. It's not even close.

2008 guards were big, could shoot, finish through contact and play defense.

2014 guards were little, streaky shooters that struggled around the rim and couldn't defend. Others teams could shoot over them at will.

2008 bigs: Dozier and Taggart could shoot the mid-range jumper and were very effective in the post. By his senior year, Robert was knocking down 3s. Dorsey was a dunk, rebound, block machine. All were good rebounders.

2014 bigs: Ok rebounders. Can block shots, but don't defend the rim half as well as the 08' squad. Offensive skills are limited. They mainly dunk and we don't have a 4 that can shoot from the perimeter. Austin may continue to develop his game and become a consistent mid-range shooter.

They both sucked at free throws. That's one thing that was the same.

I never really thought that the offense was that great in Calipari's peak years, but there was always one player like a Rose, CDR or Tyreke or even a Burks or a freshman Sean Banks or freshman Darius Washington that just bailed everyone out.

The defense was streaky, but during tournament time they went to another level with smothering length and intensity. This team doesn't have that ability. One thing Calipari had was the personnel to reduce the opposition's best player. D.J. Augustin, Darren Collinson, Acie Law, the white pg from Michigan State, Nick Fazekas of Nevada all come to mind. Example, he would have used AA to smother Shabazz Napier. When he couldn't cut the head off the snake as easily like Oden for OSU or a more balanced team like the 2009 Mizzou Tigers that had a lot of weapons the game was quite a bit different.

(03-31-2014 12:37 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 06:48 PM)tigerpride96 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:55 PM)TigerK Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:42 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Eye opening on how far away from elite level that we are and amazing how far we have fallen in 5 years.

Sad to say I agree.

I watched several tourney games again recently from our 08 team. It was pretty darned evident our talent now is comparable but man our intensity, defense and play calling is nothing now like it was then.

There's just one X factor and it ain't our players.

Our talent level is comparable to one of the greatest teams in NCAA history? Bizarre concept.

^^^^^ THIS. To say that our talent level is comparable to the 08 team borders on ... well, ignorance, unsound judgement or poor eyesight.

(03-31-2014 02:25 PM)dwash Wrote:  I never really thought that the offense was that great in Calipari's peak years, but there was always one player like a Rose, CDR or Tyreke or even a Burks or a freshman Sean Banks or freshman Darius Washington that just bailed everyone out.

The defense was streaky, but during tournament time they went to another level with smothering length and intensity. This team doesn't have that ability. One thing Calipari had was the personnel to reduce the opposition's best player. D.J. Augustin, Darren Collinson, Acie Law, the white pg from Michigan State, Nick Fazekas of Nevada all come to mind. Example, he would have used AA to smother Shabazz Napier. When he couldn't cut the head off the snake as easily like Oden for OSU or a more balanced team like the 2009 Mizzou Tigers that had a lot of weapons the game was quite a bit different.

WISDOM. No place for it on this board.

Fredo's offense was simply this:

Attack the basket, make the shot, draw a foul or kick it out to an open three.

For all y'all looking for brilliant half-court sets, sorry. It hasn't been around here since the mid to late 80s.

Self defined.

These teams did advance.

Not a huge difference- although in THIS tourney, a few of the teams played much better.

Nice try though.

(03-30-2014 03:48 PM)450bench Wrote:  I will say this. After going to the Florida Dayton game, I didn't see a huge talent difference between us and those teams. In fact, we are spoiled by our speed because we are so much faster than these teams.
Defense (especially spacing) and mentality is where the difference is along with schemes and organization. At least to me.

We have a lot of problems but our BIGGEST is we try to play too quick-John Wooden taught be quick but don't hurry-we hurried all season long. Clark Kelllogg pointed this out several times during our games. I think this cost us several games more than it won for us.

I noticed very few if any teams that played the hurried pace advanced.

(03-31-2014 12:27 PM)BIGGESTTIGERJLB Wrote:  

(03-31-2014 10:34 AM)TIGER7880 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:22 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:42 PM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  Eye opening on how far away from elite level that we are and amazing how far we have fallen in 5 years.

How did you not kill yourself when we were going 13-15 under Tic Price?

Times were different...no national brand, no NBA arena, donations weren't at an all time high, corporate support wasn't as strong, facilities were outdated, pay scale wasn't top 10 in the nation...when the bar gets raised on everything so do expectations.

Duke's brand name and big-time coach really helped them this year.....

Do us a favor. Go back let's say 30 years and tell us how many nc's Duke,Unc,Kentucky,Kansas ,UCONN,MichSt, Syracuse and uh let's pick Louisville have and how many NBA/pro players they've produced. Then take us and a few other great mid-majors and tell us how many nc's we have and how many NBA players those programs produced.






Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

That's like a math problem

(03-31-2014 04:46 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(03-31-2014 12:27 PM)BIGGESTTIGERJLB Wrote:  

(03-31-2014 10:34 AM)TIGER7880 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:22 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  How did you not kill yourself when we were going 13-15 under Tic Price?

Times were different...no national brand, no NBA arena, donations weren't at an all time high, corporate support wasn't as strong, facilities were outdated, pay scale wasn't top 10 in the nation...when the bar gets raised on everything so do expectations.

Duke's brand name and big-time coach really helped them this year.....

Do us a favor. Go back let's say 30 years and tell us how many nc's Duke,Unc,Kentucky,Kansas ,UCONN,MichSt, Syracuse and uh let's pick Louisville have and how many NBA/pro players they've produced. Then take us and a few other great mid-majors and tell us how many nc's we have and how many NBA players those programs produced.






Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

That's like a math problem

Still easier than common core


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(03-31-2014 01:27 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  2008 guards ... could shoot,...

Not really. Rose, Anderson, and Allen, were all poor shooters from distance. Mack and Kemp were decent that year. CDR shot for a high percentage but didn't take a whole bunch of 3 point shots. That team basically scored driving to the basket on Rose's athleticism and CDR's arsenal of "old man moves."

(03-30-2014 03:49 PM)tigerderek Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 03:43 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  I seem to remember playing a final four team to within a bucket on a neutral floor.

Was that the same team who got spanked at home to another final 4 team in conference tourney?

Yeah, I think it was the same team that swept a Sweet 16 team.

(03-31-2014 07:47 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(03-31-2014 01:27 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  2008 guards ... could shoot,...

Not really. Rose, Anderson, and Allen, were all poor shooters from distance. Mack and Kemp were decent that year. CDR shot for a high percentage but didn't take a whole bunch of 3 point shots. That team basically scored driving to the basket on Rose's athleticism and CDR's arsenal of "old man moves."

Mack was a HORRIBLE shooter in games that mattered. He padded his % in CUSA games and against cupcakes. Kemp was on fire during the tournament run

(03-30-2014 03:48 PM)450bench Wrote:  I will say this. After going to the Florida Dayton game, I didn't see a huge talent difference between us and those teams. In fact, we are spoiled by our speed because we are so much faster than these teams.
Defense (especially spacing) and mentality is where the difference is along with schemes and organization. At least to me.

You can't be serious. I've been watching games all tournament, and what I saw is that we're not a lot faster than other teams like we think we are. Yes, Joe and a couple other players can go from end to end fast, but we're not able to outrun teams like we think we are, and I've seen any teams that are better than us play a lot faster at times. No way we have the same talent as other teams. KY definitely has more talent than probably 2 other teams put together. We definitely don't have a Napier, Boatright, or another player or two that are on UCONN's team. None of our players are as good as Michigan State's best two players. Even Michigan has an underrated guy or two. None of those teams would want to trade their 2 or 3 best players for ours. Maybe Dayton. That's about it. The only argument that can be made that our players are as good as these other teams is that maybe some of the guys who didn't play as much most of the season were as good. IF we can get out defense on level with other teams in the conference and get our big men playing more consistent, we will be fine next season.

[/quote]

Mack was a HORRIBLE shooter in games that mattered. He padded his % in CUSA games and against cupcakes. [/quote]

Like Pastner?!

I do not blame Pastner 1 bit about our guards shooting. He did everything he could. If you can't shoot the ball, you can't shoot teams out of their zone and open up the inside play. If you guards/bigs do no play with intensity and get back on defense you generally sub them out. Problem is, he had no one else to put in.

I'll go ahead and be the ******* again I guess.

Crawford- did not play defense and was not consistent enough to only shoot threes. Sometimes double digit threes in a single game. I don't care about his shooting % he had games where he shot 50% and he had games where he shot 10% he wasn't consistent period.

Jackson- He played well at times but sulked to much and has done it for years. He didn't even enjoy 40% of his college time and at times that showed. That's from his own mouth. At times he looked great other times he hurt us.

Dixon- Was probably the most consistent guard we had. However, at times he hurt us bad with his hero ball.

Geron- Most intense player on the team. He couldn't shoot to save his life.

Again, if you can't shoot, you can't open up the inside. There is only so much a big can do when he is constantly surrounded by 2-3 opposing players. Teams did not respect our outside shooting and they just packed it in and watched us miss.

Defensively who was Josh supposed to put in? King was good in my opinion got lost at times. Iverson could have been but I didn't really see him enough to know 100%, Woodson had issues and still needs to drop weight, Wilson maybe, I don't know why he didn't play.

Other than that Josh had no choice but to teach, preach and hope it got through.

His only other option would have been to send a message by pruposely losing 3-4 games by playing the freshmen and walk ons. I would have loved to see the reaction to that.

Give Josh a chance with these new recruits. I think these new batch of guards are going to show us what Josh is really capable of. I appreciate those players for coming here and keeping us in the tourney, I just don't think they were really ever meant for more than that.

I blame Josh for the recruiting and not getting us a TRUE PG. I do not blame Josh for the way the players played and how they played with little or no heart.

I know people think the players are a reflection of their coach. However, I have seen nothing from Josh that says he is does not have heart or is not a hard worker...

He works harder than every coach out there, he has been doing it since he was a kid. He did it at the AAU level and he did it as a walk on at Arizona. If NBA players fromt hat Arizona team say Josh was one of the main reasons they were successful and developed the way they did who is anyone here to say otherwise.

Josh is already under pressure from the fans and really just being the head coach at Memphis. Would you have rather him kicked 5 players off this team and taken 22 losses this season?

It only takes 1 player on the court to kill your team defensively. If they consistently get beat, lose their man, or just let them go by and hope someone else will stop them you will look bad.

(03-30-2014 10:25 PM)misplaced tiger Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 09:19 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  NEWSFLASH: Elite 8 teams look better than a team that went out in the Round of 32!!!!


Brilliant. This board is bringing its A game tonight.

The point of the post was not the "what" but the "why", which in my observation was toughness and intensity. Stellar reading comprehension.

No, the point of the post was to be a mopey sad-sack. We all knew that this team was not an Elite 8 type team even before the season began.

Another woe is me thread.