(03-30-2014 08:56 AM)FCBE TIGER Wrote:  They are compensated with an education. Go play football or bball in Europe or Canada if you don't want an education and want to get paid.

or just change the rules through the court which is exactly what theyre doing.

(03-29-2014 10:51 PM)tigerjaws Wrote:  I don't....but think they should form minor leagues as in baseball for those students who don't want an education, but want to pursue an athletic career........Let the "regular" students play school athletics

The day a union forms with UofM athletes is the last day I spend another dime on college athletics. Ridiculous and absurd.

Got an income..get taxed. They'll need to keep their receipts in a big shoe box.

I'm thinking they'll be taxed according to the state they reside.

..Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota,Texas, Washington, Wyoming, New Hampshire, Tennessee etc don't have state income taxes. lol

(03-29-2014 10:57 PM)tigerfansincebirth89 Wrote:  They should be compensated. If the answer to that is a union, then sure.

THEY ARE COMPENSATED. If they want monetary compensation then do away with all scholarship and financial support to all sports. Make athletes pay their own way like every other student then give them a check after each game. When they end each year $10,000 to $15,000 8n debt they will not be so hell fired up to be paid.

The Northwestern football players get compensation valued at close to $70,000 per year.

(03-30-2014 12:38 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 10:57 PM)tigerfansincebirth89 Wrote:  They should be compensated. If the answer to that is a union, then sure.

THEY ARE COMPENSATED. If they want monetary compensation then do away with all scholarship and financial support to all sports. Make athletes pay their own way like every other student then give them a check after each game. When they end each year $10,000 to $15,000 8n debt they will not be so hell fired up to be paid.

The Northwestern football players get compensation valued at close to $70,000 per year.

Thats for the court to decide...not you.

(03-30-2014 10:09 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 12:05 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  We are getting ever so closer to a pay to play situation. Honestly it needs to happen. I'm not sure of the bestway to do it but the amount of money these universities make off athletes is insane and throw in top the amount the ncaa makes of them. They deserve some sort of stipend

This argument just is not true. The money that is made by the school is reinvested back into the program. Almost all schools do not turn a profit. The oodles of profit that schools make off of athletes only exists if you are Ohio St. or Texas. Take the fact that only 22 athletic departments make money, but now you have to pay all players within them. WOW, can you say mass cutting of Olympic sports? If the athletes had to choose between being able to play a sport that they love for 4 more years or being greedy about the opportunity that they have been given to maybe advance to the next level, it would be a no-brainer. If all athletes were to vote, most would play for free if it meant continue playing their sport. Football and basketball players would be far overwhelmed.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-reve...ort-2011-6

Maybe not only Olympic sports as Title IX will still require you to provide equal places for female sports and very likely they will demand and get equal payment. You could see the majority of sports disappear from college campuses.

(03-30-2014 12:49 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 10:09 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 12:05 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  We are getting ever so closer to a pay to play situation. Honestly it needs to happen. I'm not sure of the bestway to do it but the amount of money these universities make off athletes is insane and throw in top the amount the ncaa makes of them. They deserve some sort of stipend

This argument just is not true. The money that is made by the school is reinvested back into the program. Almost all schools do not turn a profit. The oodles of profit that schools make off of athletes only exists if you are Ohio St. or Texas. Take the fact that only 22 athletic departments make money, but now you have to pay all players within them. WOW, can you say mass cutting of Olympic sports? If the athletes had to choose between being able to play a sport that they love for 4 more years or being greedy about the opportunity that they have been given to maybe advance to the next level, it would be a no-brainer. If all athletes were to vote, most would play for free if it meant continue playing their sport. Football and basketball players would be far overwhelmed.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-reve...ort-2011-6

Maybe not only Olympic sports as Title IX will still require you to provide equal places for female sports and very likely they will demand and get equal payment. You could see the majority of sports disappear from college campuses.

My point exactly.

(03-30-2014 12:49 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 12:38 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 10:57 PM)tigerfansincebirth89 Wrote:  They should be compensated. If the answer to that is a union, then sure.

THEY ARE COMPENSATED. If they want monetary compensation then do away with all scholarship and financial support to all sports. Make athletes pay their own way like every other student then give them a check after each game. When they end each year $10,000 to $15,000 8n debt they will not be so hell fired up to be paid.

The Northwestern football players get compensation valued at close to $70,000 per year.

Thats for the court to decide...not you.

Has already been decided by the courts. Any compensation is seen as financial compensation. If your company gives you a company car and you do not report it as incomes the COURT has said you are guilty of tax evasion. Does not have to be direct cash payments to be considered compensation.

(03-30-2014 01:20 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 12:49 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 12:38 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 10:57 PM)tigerfansincebirth89 Wrote:  They should be compensated. If the answer to that is a union, then sure.

THEY ARE COMPENSATED. If they want monetary compensation then do away with all scholarship and financial support to all sports. Make athletes pay their own way like every other student then give them a check after each game. When they end each year $10,000 to $15,000 8n debt they will not be so hell fired up to be paid.

The Northwestern football players get compensation valued at close to $70,000 per year.

Thats for the court to decide...not you.

Has already been decided by the courts. Any compensation is seen as financial compensation. If your company gives you a company car and you do not report it as incomes the COURT has said you are guilty of tax evasion. Does not have to be direct cash payments to be considered compensation.

The o'bannon case is what it will come down to.

I like the move by the Northwestern athletes, not b/c I necessarily support the exact idea of a union, but rather I think it is time to have the conversation.

I am in favor of enhanced compensation, but not cash, and not direct. What I would like to see might look like:

- Increased term of scholarship. It is difficult to play big time college athletics and still achieve at a high level in college. I'd like to see the scholarship term go to 6 years or so so and reduce the hours needed to be a full-time student for NCAA athletes to allow them to take fewer classes, learn more, and then have an extra two years to finish their studies if necessary. This might be very expensive, so maybe it is something that is applied for by the athlete as a case by case issue, but can be done by all.

- I'd like to see a minor stipend for things like pizza, movies, dates, etc. They can't get a part time job due to time and NCAA restrictions, so I'd like them to get a small monthly stipend to cover than sort of thing.

- I'd like to see players receive compensation for jersey sales with their numbers, video game likenesses (this can be a pool system, not a individual payout), and be allowed to profit off signing sessions (these can be sanctioned by the NCAA, to prevent some crazy booster from paying $100,000 for a signed hanky).

>>>>>

There are other things I would probably think of, but this is already a long list. Most of the above should be pool based and not individual based so that all athletes (non-revenue sports included), get this treatment.

Having said that, I can certainly see those that feel a college scholarship is already excellent compensation. I received a 3/4 schollie for academics to an elite private school and had no chance of affording it without that. I am still eternally grateful for that opportunity to excel and am honored my alma mater thought enough of me to invest in my future. I will always be in debt to the school and the gentleman who founded my scholarship. (thinks, I should really write him a thank you letter one of these days…)

The problem with pay to play for the football and basketball players is are you going to give all sports the same equal stipend? If not what are Universities going to do when the tennis, rifle teams, lady basketball teams, volleyball, etc. sue the school because they aren't getting a fare share. I know the simple answer is well give them a fair share but smaller schools will not be able to without raising tuition for other students which in turn would cause your regular students to perhaps sue the college. Why shouldn't law school students, nursing students, business students receive a stipend as well. It would make more since to give these students a stipend because they will much more likely do a better job of representing the school.

These athletes are getting a free ride to great institutions all across the country, free room and board, and free meals! Many of these student athletes are also getting Free money with Pell Grants up to $2700 a semester, have access to loans up to 5-8k a semester, and some in Tennessee are getting a hope scholarship. There is no need to pay them.

Athletes being treated as an employee introduces many side effects for the athletes and institutions. An obvious one is 'at will' employment. If you don't produce you are fired just like in the private sector. Don't include government jobs here. And what happens to the guy who gets injured. YOUR FIRED.

(03-30-2014 02:34 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  Athletes being treated as an employee introduces many side effects for the athletes and institutions. An obvious one is 'at will' employment. If you don't produce you are fired just like in the private sector. Don't include government jobs here. And what happens to the guy who gets injured. YOUR FIRED.

actually that would be worker's comp. but you're right, it would open the door for so many problems that real world jobs have and could destroy it all.

(03-30-2014 12:06 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Got an income..get taxed. They'll need to keep their receipts in a big shoe box.

I'm thinking they'll be taxed according to the state they reside.

..Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota,Texas, Washington, Wyoming, New Hampshire, Tennessee etc don't have state income taxes. lol

They would fall under the jock/entertainer tax and have to file a state tax return for every state they competed in.

Unions have helped to destroy most manufacturing in the United States.

It would be awesome, because you could dump underperforming or injured players without the stupid transfer rules, collect taxes on their wages (let's see an 18 year old figure that out) and, if it had the same effect as unions have had on other industries, it would drive the price of watching sports through the roof while simultaneously wiping out most non-revenue sports.

In the long run, it would eliminate boards like this so everybody's productivity would increase. Winners all round.

(03-30-2014 01:37 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  I like the move by the Northwestern athletes, not b/c I necessarily support the exact idea of a union, but rather I think it is time to have the conversation.

I am in favor of enhanced compensation, but not cash, and not direct. What I would like to see might look like:

- Increased term of scholarship. It is difficult to play big time college athletics and still achieve at a high level in college. I'd like to see the scholarship term go to 6 years or so so and reduce the hours needed to be a full-time student for NCAA athletes to allow them to take fewer classes, learn more, and then have an extra two years to finish their studies if necessary. This might be very expensive, so maybe it is something that is applied for by the athlete as a case by case issue, but can be done by all.

- I'd like to see a minor stipend for things like pizza, movies, dates, etc. They can't get a part time job due to time and NCAA restrictions, so I'd like them to get a small monthly stipend to cover than sort of thing.

- I'd like to see players receive compensation for jersey sales with their numbers, video game likenesses (this can be a pool system, not a individual payout), and be allowed to profit off signing sessions (these can be sanctioned by the NCAA, to prevent some crazy booster from paying $100,000 for a signed hanky).

>>>>>

There are other things I would probably think of, but this is already a long list. Most of the above should be pool based and not individual based so that all athletes (non-revenue sports included), get this treatment.

Having said that, I can certainly see those that feel a college scholarship is already excellent compensation. I received a 3/4 schollie for academics to an elite private school and had no chance of affording it without that. I am still eternally grateful for that opportunity to excel and am honored my alma mater thought enough of me to invest in my future. I will always be in debt to the school and the gentleman who founded my scholarship. (thinks, I should really write him a thank you letter one of these days…)

Whose fault is it that the players cannot have part time jobs? The schools and the athlete abused the situation to begin with or there would not have been these rules. Don't go breaking the rules and then complain woe is me they created a rules so i cannot work boo hoo hoo. If players were not getting paid to make sure automatic sprinklers were coming on or to cut the artificial turf then they would still be able to get part time jobs. How many summer jobs have we seen where the only time the athlete showed up was to get pay check on Friday?

(03-31-2014 01:56 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 01:37 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  I like the move by the Northwestern athletes, not b/c I necessarily support the exact idea of a union, but rather I think it is time to have the conversation.

I am in favor of enhanced compensation, but not cash, and not direct. What I would like to see might look like:

- Increased term of scholarship. It is difficult to play big time college athletics and still achieve at a high level in college. I'd like to see the scholarship term go to 6 years or so so and reduce the hours needed to be a full-time student for NCAA athletes to allow them to take fewer classes, learn more, and then have an extra two years to finish their studies if necessary. This might be very expensive, so maybe it is something that is applied for by the athlete as a case by case issue, but can be done by all.

- I'd like to see a minor stipend for things like pizza, movies, dates, etc. They can't get a part time job due to time and NCAA restrictions, so I'd like them to get a small monthly stipend to cover than sort of thing.

- I'd like to see players receive compensation for jersey sales with their numbers, video game likenesses (this can be a pool system, not a individual payout), and be allowed to profit off signing sessions (these can be sanctioned by the NCAA, to prevent some crazy booster from paying $100,000 for a signed hanky).

>>>>>

There are other things I would probably think of, but this is already a long list. Most of the above should be pool based and not individual based so that all athletes (non-revenue sports included), get this treatment.

Having said that, I can certainly see those that feel a college scholarship is already excellent compensation. I received a 3/4 schollie for academics to an elite private school and had no chance of affording it without that. I am still eternally grateful for that opportunity to excel and am honored my alma mater thought enough of me to invest in my future. I will always be in debt to the school and the gentleman who founded my scholarship. (thinks, I should really write him a thank you letter one of these days…)

Whose fault is it that the players cannot have part time jobs? The schools and the athlete abused the situation to begin with or there would not have been these rules. Don't go breaking the rules and then complain woe is me they created a rules so i cannot work boo hoo hoo. If players were not getting paid to make sure automatic sprinklers were coming on or to cut the artificial turf then they would still be able to get part time jobs. How many summer jobs have we seen where the only time the athlete showed up was to get pay check on Friday?

The serious answer is it's a tough thing to punish current athletes for the sins of generations before.

The funny answer is Ron Luciano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Luciano) had a great anecdote about his job when he was in college. He said back then, how hard your job was a direct correlation to how good you are on the field. By the time he was a senior All American, his job was to guard a massive stone bench and make sure no one stole it. To make a long story short, he didn't watch the bench at all times.

In situations where unions have taken charge in a non right to work state, you have ended up in a adversarial relationship between managers and employees. Instead of working as a TEAM for the common good, they have been at constant odds in many cases ending up with strikes, employee sitdowns and other disruptive meansures to gain control over management. The end result is the US automotive and steel industries current situation and the situation in Detroit. This has been proven time in and time out to be a mutually destructive relationship that ends up in no real good other than certain employees being paid a very high wage for doing menial work. That being said, I think we can look at what unions have destroyed in the US and the conflict they have caused. If this is what you want for you athletic program, then you will get it for sure...just support unions..the cause of it all.
Of course, the major beneficiaries of this situation would be the Univ of Florida, Miami, FSU, Texas and Texas A&M. They would not be effected by the adversarial relationships that this will create.....they are in RIGHT TO WORK states.

(03-31-2014 08:17 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(03-31-2014 01:56 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 01:37 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  I like the move by the Northwestern athletes, not b/c I necessarily support the exact idea of a union, but rather I think it is time to have the conversation.

I am in favor of enhanced compensation, but not cash, and not direct. What I would like to see might look like:

- Increased term of scholarship. It is difficult to play big time college athletics and still achieve at a high level in college. I'd like to see the scholarship term go to 6 years or so so and reduce the hours needed to be a full-time student for NCAA athletes to allow them to take fewer classes, learn more, and then have an extra two years to finish their studies if necessary. This might be very expensive, so maybe it is something that is applied for by the athlete as a case by case issue, but can be done by all.

- I'd like to see a minor stipend for things like pizza, movies, dates, etc. They can't get a part time job due to time and NCAA restrictions, so I'd like them to get a small monthly stipend to cover than sort of thing.

- I'd like to see players receive compensation for jersey sales with their numbers, video game likenesses (this can be a pool system, not a individual payout), and be allowed to profit off signing sessions (these can be sanctioned by the NCAA, to prevent some crazy booster from paying $100,000 for a signed hanky).

>>>>>

There are other things I would probably think of, but this is already a long list. Most of the above should be pool based and not individual based so that all athletes (non-revenue sports included), get this treatment.

Having said that, I can certainly see those that feel a college scholarship is already excellent compensation. I received a 3/4 schollie for academics to an elite private school and had no chance of affording it without that. I am still eternally grateful for that opportunity to excel and am honored my alma mater thought enough of me to invest in my future. I will always be in debt to the school and the gentleman who founded my scholarship. (thinks, I should really write him a thank you letter one of these days…)

Whose fault is it that the players cannot have part time jobs? The schools and the athlete abused the situation to begin with or there would not have been these rules. Don't go breaking the rules and then complain woe is me they created a rules so i cannot work boo hoo hoo. If players were not getting paid to make sure automatic sprinklers were coming on or to cut the artificial turf then they would still be able to get part time jobs. How many summer jobs have we seen where the only time the athlete showed up was to get pay check on Friday?

The serious answer is it's a tough thing to punish current athletes for the sins of generations before.

The funny answer is Ron Luciano (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Luciano) had a great anecdote about his job when he was in college. He said back then, how hard your job was a direct correlation to how good you are on the field. By the time he was a senior All American, his job was to guard a massive stone bench and make sure no one stole it. To make a long story short, he didn't watch the bench at all times.

The reason the NCAA rule book is as thick as it is, is due to each new class of players and schools trying to get around the previous set of rules. The current group will have rules written due to their actions that will effect the next generation of players. Then that generation will cause new the need for new rules that will effect the next.

Racing has a couple of old sayings "if you ain't cheating you ain't trying" and "It ain't cheating unless you get caught" Both emphasize the fact that somewhere along the way someone is going to try and gain an advantage outside of the rules. Same goes for college sports. Some school, coach, booster, or player will always be trying to get around the rule book to gain an advantage. It has a cumulative effect. The only option is to keep adding rules to address their actions in order to try and keep a level playing field. Sad we cannot trust these groups to do the right thing so we can eliminate a number of the rules.