(03-28-2014 10:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:42 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Is it so incomprehensible to believe that people may take pride in that flag.

totally agree

So neither of you understand the concept of tolerance.

I'm not surprised, but at least you admit it openly, perhaps this will aid you in maturing to adulthood.

(03-28-2014 11:20 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 10:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:42 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Is it so incomprehensible to believe that people may take pride in that flag.

totally agree

So neither of you understand the concept of tolerance.

I'm not surprised, but at least you admit it openly, perhaps this will aid you in maturing to adulthood.

i think its more an understanding of.....

if you are gonna have this "free speech" thing, don't be surprised to see people use it to be total morons as seen with this story.

(03-28-2014 11:26 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 11:20 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 10:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:42 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Is it so incomprehensible to believe that people may take pride in that flag.

totally agree

So neither of you understand the concept of tolerance.

I'm not surprised, but at least you admit it openly, perhaps this will aid you in maturing to adulthood.

i think its more an understanding of.....

if you are gonna have this "free speech" thing, don't be surprised to see people use it to be total morons as seen with this story.

It always amuses me how leftists don't even understand their own words. gaps said it was "incomprehensible," and you "totally" agreed. So you don't understand the situation, and are now trying to pretend that means you do.

(03-28-2014 09:10 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 08:36 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  It was on school property. They make the rules. Case closed.

Not according to this lawsuit. And I'm happier for it.

You show me an educator that believes it's his school and he makes the rules, and I'll show you a petty tyrant who needs to refresh the tree of liberty.

The "they" of which I was referring is the administration. I can see a valid reason to limit free speech in instances in which violence could be agitated by the statement. I am uncomfortable with it...but..I understand that flying a Confederate Battle flag on school property could lead to problems.

(03-28-2014 11:37 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:10 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 08:36 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  It was on school property. They make the rules. Case closed.

Not according to this lawsuit. And I'm happier for it.

You show me an educator that believes it's his school and he makes the rules, and I'll show you a petty tyrant who needs to refresh the tree of liberty.

The "they" of which I was referring is the administration. I can see a valid reason to limit free speech in instances in which violence could be agitated by the statement. I am uncomfortable with it...but..I understand that flying a Confederate Battle flag on school property could lead to problems.

I can understand where you are coming from but absolutely not. If that was the litmus test for banning a saying or symbol then people would not be allowed to talk because it would offend someone somewhere.

(03-28-2014 11:26 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 11:20 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 10:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:42 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Is it so incomprehensible to believe that people may take pride in that flag.

totally agree

So neither of you understand the concept of tolerance.

I'm not surprised, but at least you admit it openly, perhaps this will aid you in maturing to adulthood.

i think its more an understanding of.....

if you are gonna have this "free speech" thing, don't be surprised to see people use it to be total morons as seen with this story.

Free speech allows you to fly the Confederate flag. Not really much debate there, despite the fact that I personally find it to be objectionable.

Free speech also allows such people that fly the Confederate flag to be called racist by others and ostracized socially.

A lot of defenders of the Confederate flag emphasize the former, but then complain that they're not immune from the latter (as they neglect the rest of society has moved on from 150 years ago and the "War of Northern Aggression" or however Southerners define the Civil War). Can't have it both ways. As the old adage goes, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

As far as the confederate flag is concerned, I don't fly it and I understand how someone might find it objectionable, but riot inducing? I don't think so.

As far as the larger issue is concerned, I'd be happy just to get back to where simply flying the American flag wasn't offensive and controversial.

Also, simple question, why is the left so scared of free exchange of ideas?

(03-28-2014 11:41 AM)DragonLair Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 11:37 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:10 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 08:36 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  It was on school property. They make the rules. Case closed.

Not according to this lawsuit. And I'm happier for it.

You show me an educator that believes it's his school and he makes the rules, and I'll show you a petty tyrant who needs to refresh the tree of liberty.

The "they" of which I was referring is the administration. I can see a valid reason to limit free speech in instances in which violence could be agitated by the statement. I am uncomfortable with it...but..I understand that flying a Confederate Battle flag on school property could lead to problems.

I can understand where you are coming from but absolutely not. If that was the litmus test for banning a saying or symbol then people would not be allowed to talk because it would offend someone somewhere.

Public school cases are actually a historic hotbed of constitutional law decisions (particularly about the First Amendment) because there are countervailing interests of (a) freedom from the government impinging upon your rights and (b) protection of minors where schools have a duty to take a "in loco parentis" role. They often directly conflict with each other and there isn't one answer for everything.

So, when it comes to a public school, there isn't an easy application of any law or even constitutional right. To say that rights aren't suspended at the school house door (which is a Supreme Court quote that the ACLU loves) isn't entirely correct - there are definitely situations where freedoms in public places other than schools wouldn't apply because courts have determined that the protectable interest in safety is greater. A prime example is not allowing handguns in schools - you can argue about the Second Amendment all day in public schools and it's not going to work. Speech that could be considered hate speech could also not be allowed in a public school - the safety and discrimination issues may prevail over the First Amendment issue in that circumstance. By the same token, the safety issue doesn't always prevail, either.

At the end of the day, the lawyerly answer is, "It depends." Public school cases are always highly dependent upon the facts and the specificity of the rule/regulation/decision that's being challenged.

(03-28-2014 11:37 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:10 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 08:36 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  It was on school property. They make the rules. Case closed.

Not according to this lawsuit. And I'm happier for it.

You show me an educator that believes it's his school and he makes the rules, and I'll show you a petty tyrant who needs to refresh the tree of liberty.

The "they" of which I was referring is the administration. I can see a valid reason to limit free speech in instances in which violence could be agitated by the statement.

I understand your comment better now.

Quote: I am uncomfortable with it...but..I understand that flying a Confederate Battle flag on school property could lead to problems.

Since this was the very reason students out west were told they could not wear US flag apparel on 5 May, I don't find it compelling.

(03-28-2014 08:13 AM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  This story gives me some hope.

The kids said, "Get over it, I'm not taking it down"... and they suspended him.

The ACLU came in to support him. His friends put up Confederate Flags in their vehicles... Suspension reduced from 3 days to 1 day.




http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/28/new...latestnews

Quote:A New Jersey high school student says he was suspended from school after refusing to remove a Confederate flag on his truck.

Gregory Vied, 17, told News12.com he was suspended for flying the flag on his pickup truck, which was parked in a student lot at Steinert High School in Hamilton Township.

Vied says he refused to remove the flag despite repeated warnings from administrators. He says he understands the history of the flag, but that he sees it only as a representation of Southern pride and a connection to relatives from the South.

"Them trying to make me take it down is unconstitutional," Vied said.

The American Civil Liberties Union told the station that Vied's right to freedom of expression cannot be limited, even if there are complaints from students or teachers.

"As the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear, students' rights don't end at the school house gates," ACLU Legal Director Ed Barocas said. "It also doesn't end in the school parking lot."

Vied's three-day suspension was cut to one day after the ACLU sent a letter to the principal stating that school officials would have to prove the banned speech would "materially and substantially" disrupt operations at the school.

News12.com reported that some of Vied's friends have shown their support by coming to school with Confederate flags on their cars and trucks, though none of them have been suspended.

The superintendent of schools refused to comment to News12.com on the suspension, citing student privacy reasons.

"Privacy Reasons" means his own privacy. LOL.

That 1994 Z-71 is badass...

(03-28-2014 08:25 AM)BeliefBlazer Wrote:  There are racists everywhere.

Indeed, and there is a large concentration of them in the white house and on northern school boards...

(03-28-2014 09:42 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Is it so incomprehensible to believe that people may take pride in that flag.
It certainly may not be your view, but doubt they would not openly embrace many
of your views. People are different. Everyone has their own different beliefs and
even values. Everyone is racist to a certain extent. Don't throw out racism on
something totally not connected. If you cannot help to stand up and allow others
to express their beliefs then you beliefs will be squelched soon. A lot of truth in
give me freedom or give me death.

Or, give me free stuff.

(03-28-2014 11:43 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 11:26 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 11:20 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 10:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:42 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Is it so incomprehensible to believe that people may take pride in that flag.

totally agree

So neither of you understand the concept of tolerance.

I'm not surprised, but at least you admit it openly, perhaps this will aid you in maturing to adulthood.

i think its more an understanding of.....

if you are gonna have this "free speech" thing, don't be surprised to see people use it to be total morons as seen with this story.

Free speech allows you to fly the Confederate flag. Not really much debate there, despite the fact that I personally find it to be objectionable.

Free speech also allows such people that fly the Confederate flag to be called racist by others and ostracized socially.

A lot of defenders of the Confederate flag emphasize the former, but then complain that they're not immune from the latter (as they neglect the rest of society has moved on from 150 years ago and the "War of Northern Aggression" or however Southerners define the Civil War). Can't have it both ways. As the old adage goes, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Are you saying that people who fly this flag are still stuck in 1865? Nobody complains about being called a racist due to stereotype, what they do is explain how they aren't. The only people who havent moved on past 1865 are those who still get offended by the Confederate Flag. It's truly time to move on and let it roll off your shoulders when someone wants to display their pride of the South. As someone who was born and raised in the South, I can assure you that people who fly this flag in the 21st Century aren't racists...

You guys act like people with Confederate Flags all gather around and start whispering "n*gger" to each other, and talk about what they're gonna do when they see a black person...

People like you and john need to take a step back and look at REAL world problems. I expect it from john, but not from you. Pity.

(03-28-2014 08:13 AM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  This story gives me some hope.

The kids said, "Get over it, I'm not taking it down"... and they suspended him.

The ACLU came in to support him. His friends put up Confederate Flags in their vehicles... Suspension reduced from 3 days to 1 day.




http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/28/new...latestnews

Quote:A New Jersey high school student says he was suspended from school after refusing to remove a Confederate flag on his truck.

Gregory Vied, 17, told News12.com he was suspended for flying the flag on his pickup truck, which was parked in a student lot at Steinert High School in Hamilton Township.

Vied says he refused to remove the flag despite repeated warnings from administrators. He says he understands the history of the flag, but that he sees it only as a representation of Southern pride and a connection to relatives from the South.

"Them trying to make me take it down is unconstitutional," Vied said.

The American Civil Liberties Union told the station that Vied's right to freedom of expression cannot be limited, even if there are complaints from students or teachers.

"As the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear, students' rights don't end at the school house gates," ACLU Legal Director Ed Barocas said. "It also doesn't end in the school parking lot."

Vied's three-day suspension was cut to one day after the ACLU sent a letter to the principal stating that school officials would have to prove the banned speech would "materially and substantially" disrupt operations at the school.

News12.com reported that some of Vied's friends have shown their support by coming to school with Confederate flags on their cars and trucks, though none of them have been suspended.

The superintendent of schools refused to comment to News12.com on the suspension, citing student privacy reasons.

"Privacy Reasons" means his own privacy. LOL.

Nice!

(03-28-2014 11:35 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 11:26 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 11:20 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 10:43 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:42 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Is it so incomprehensible to believe that people may take pride in that flag.

totally agree

So neither of you understand the concept of tolerance.

I'm not surprised, but at least you admit it openly, perhaps this will aid you in maturing to adulthood.

i think its more an understanding of.....

if you are gonna have this "free speech" thing, don't be surprised to see people use it to be total morons as seen with this story.

It always amuses me how leftists don't even understand their own words. gaps said it was "incomprehensible," and you "totally" agreed. So you don't understand the situation, and are now trying to pretend that means you do.

LOL. i find it hilarious how you switch talking points only to go on and call me out for doing that.

(03-28-2014 12:06 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 11:37 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 09:10 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 08:36 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  It was on school property. They make the rules. Case closed.

Not according to this lawsuit. And I'm happier for it.

You show me an educator that believes it's his school and he makes the rules, and I'll show you a petty tyrant who needs to refresh the tree of liberty.

The "they" of which I was referring is the administration. I can see a valid reason to limit free speech in instances in which violence could be agitated by the statement.

I understand your comment better now.

Quote: I am uncomfortable with it...but..I understand that flying a Confederate Battle flag on school property could lead to problems.

Since this was the very reason students out west were told they could not wear US flag apparel on 5 May, I don't find it compelling.

That is a good point. All of this is what happens when we collectivize things. It leads to having to make a "one size fits all solution" that often times is anti freedom in nature.

(03-28-2014 08:13 AM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  This story gives me some hope.

The kids said, "Get over it, I'm not taking it down"... and they suspended him.

The ACLU came in to support him. His friends put up Confederate Flags in their vehicles... Suspension reduced from 3 days to 1 day.




http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/28/new...latestnews

Quote:A New Jersey high school student says he was suspended from school after refusing to remove a Confederate flag on his truck.

Gregory Vied, 17, told News12.com he was suspended for flying the flag on his pickup truck, which was parked in a student lot at Steinert High School in Hamilton Township.

Vied says he refused to remove the flag despite repeated warnings from administrators. He says he understands the history of the flag, but that he sees it only as a representation of Southern pride and a connection to relatives from the South.

"Them trying to make me take it down is unconstitutional," Vied said.

The American Civil Liberties Union told the station that Vied's right to freedom of expression cannot be limited, even if there are complaints from students or teachers.

"As the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear, students' rights don't end at the school house gates," ACLU Legal Director Ed Barocas said. "It also doesn't end in the school parking lot."

Vied's three-day suspension was cut to one day after the ACLU sent a letter to the principal stating that school officials would have to prove the banned speech would "materially and substantially" disrupt operations at the school.

News12.com reported that some of Vied's friends have shown their support by coming to school with Confederate flags on their cars and trucks, though none of them have been suspended.

The superintendent of schools refused to comment to News12.com on the suspension, citing student privacy reasons.

"Privacy Reasons" means his own privacy. LOL.

The Supreme Court has already ruled on this. This is disgraceful.