Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

This might also mean that Big East expansion looks a little less likely--would UMass be staying in teh A-10 if they thought 2/3 of SLU, Dayton and VCU were leaving? Probably not.

How much money (if any) has UMass invested in an FBS-level stadium in Amherst so far? Any chance they just pull the plug on FBS football?

(03-26-2014 07:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

This might also mean that Big East expansion looks a little less likely--would UMass be staying in teh A-10 if they thought 2/3 of SLU, Dayton and VCU were leaving? Probably not.

There was never a chance of UMASS putting its basketball into a one bid league.

(03-26-2014 07:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

This might also mean that Big East expansion looks a little less likely--would UMass be staying in teh A-10 if they thought 2/3 of SLU, Dayton and VCU were leaving? Probably not.

Unless they have a plan togo asomewhere themselves

No one thought UMass would leave the A10 for the MAC. given the way this played out it appears that include the MAC presidents. Don't think a potential loss of teams to the BE had any bearing on UMass' decision. The A10 remains a better home for UMass even with another BE raid.

I think this is more like one bullet dodged rather than a win. If the American calls, UMass is gone. If the Big East calls for St. Louis and one more, they are gone.

It won't be over for the A-10 until UMass drops back to FCS, or just leaves altogether. The only "outs" for UMass to stay in the FBS and in the A-10 are as follows:

1) FBS Independent
2) Sun Belt football only
3) Big 12 football only

Option 1 is a pay cut (only $400K in playoff money) and a nightmare for scheduling, but at least BYU and Army are in the same boat. Even Notre Dame might be a possibility, although their availability is reduce with the ACC agreement.

Option 2 is really the last resort, but the Sun Belt may be open to it rather than wait out JMU and Missouri State.

Option 3 really isn't feasible, but if the Big 12 wanted to go to 12 or more with UConn as #11, it is the path of least resistance. UConn and UMass are two of the last four FBS programs in the northeast not in the P5 (Buffalo and Temple are the others). It would be more likely the Big 12 dissolves before this happens, though.

(03-26-2014 07:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  How much money (if any) has UMass invested in an FBS-level stadium in Amherst so far? Any chance they just pull the plug on FBS football?

A little over $30 million so far, though stadium capacity has not been increased from its original 17k other than a small amount of premium seating and luxury suites. A matching $30 million was spent on basketball facilities.

No chance of returning to FCS in the foreseeable future. It's a dead end.

The UMass guys that post here seemed to think that UMass would never consider the MAC all sports. They saw it as a step down in basketball and an unwanted increase in travel costs for all other sports. This may not be as much a win for the A-10 as a loss for the MAC. It all depends on what the motive for the full invite was. Was it motivated by a MAC that needed UMass to be all in to lure JMU or UDel, or was it motived by a MAC that found a way to disown its red headed step child?

The renovated stadium is scheduled to open for games this coming season. While not touted at all here like the UH or Tulane projects have been, I quickly found a site with a construction cam. It is a $30m renovation that is being concentrated on better facilities (locker rooms, press box, training, officers) and a slight increase in capacity. From what I found of construction photos on line, there is room to continue to expand the stadium if needed.

The big question is can UMass now make itself attractive enough to the AAC to garner an invite?

(03-26-2014 07:45 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I think this is more like one bullet dodged rather than a win. If the American calls, UMass is gone. If the Big East calls for St. Louis and one more, they are gone.

It won't be over for the A-10 until UMass drops back to FCS, or just leaves altogether. The only "outs" for UMass to stay in the FBS and in the A-10 are as follows:

1) FBS Independent
2) Sun Belt football only
3) Big 12 football only

Option 1 is a pay cut (only $400K in playoff money) and a nightmare for scheduling, but at least BYU and Army are in the same boat. Even Notre Dame might be a possibility, although their availability is reduce with the ACC agreement.

Option 2 is really the last resort, but the Sun Belt may be open to it rather than wait out JMU and Missouri State.

Option 3 really isn't feasible, but if the Big 12 wanted to go to 12 or more with UConn as #11, it is the path of least resistance. UConn and UMass are two of the last four FBS programs in the northeast not in the P5 (Buffalo and Temple are the others). It would be more likely the Big 12 dissolves before this happens, though.

The Path of least resistance for the Big 12 involves the Presidents inviting two of the worst teams in all FBS Into the league, and not even bothering to bring in their top rated basketball program?]

(03-26-2014 07:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

This might also mean that Big East expansion looks a little less likely--would UMass be staying in teh A-10 if they thought 2/3 of SLU, Dayton and VCU were leaving? Probably not.

Val Ackerman has already said that the Big East is not looking to expand. I think the C-7, back to having a round robin of home-and-homes with their C-7 rivals, are happy with the way things are. The A-10 put more teams in the tournament than the AAC, so the AAC probably cant poach the A-10 without accepting an FCS football team into their league. Those were the two primary threats. That probably means the A-10 is stable and safe at this point.

I see the Sunbelt football-only option as the best course for UMass. Both the Sunbelt and UMass get something out of the deal and even if its short term, it allows the Sunbelt to work on other options for the long term (JMU, MS, EKU, etc.). One other option could be a Olympic sports move to the AAC coupled with a AAC scheduling agreement to help UMass survive as an independent while they build their program and get their on-campus stadium issues handled. I think that's an unlikely path, but I suppose its possible.

(03-26-2014 08:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 07:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

This might also mean that Big East expansion looks a little less likely--would UMass be staying in teh A-10 if they thought 2/3 of SLU, Dayton and VCU were leaving? Probably not.

Val Ackerman has already said that the Big East is not looking to expand. I think the C-7, back to having a round robin of home-and-homes with their C-7 rivals, are happy with the way things are. The A-10 put more teams in the tournament than the AAC, so the AAC probably cant poach the A-10 without accepting an FCS football team into their league. Those were the two primary threats. That probably means the A-10 is stable and safe at this point.

I see the Sunbelt football-only option as the best course for UMass. Both the Sunbelt and UMass get something out of the deal and even if its short term, it allows the Sunbelt to work on other options for the long term (JMU, MS, EKU, etc.). One other option could be a Olympic sports move to the AAC coupled with a AAC scheduling agreement to help UMass survive as an independent while they build their program and get their on-campus stadium issues handled. I think that's an unlikely path, but I suppose its possible.

The question is whether UMass would want to associate with a bunch of southern regional universities (and far western universities) much further from Massachusetts than the MAC schools. The MAC at least has Buffalo, Miami and Ohio U. And whether a northeastern university is worth it to get to 12 for the Sun Belt.

10 years ago the MAC looked like it was going to catch up to the MVC and become a regular 2 bid league. But their basketball has declined.

(03-26-2014 07:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

This might also mean that Big East expansion looks a little less likely--would UMass be staying in teh A-10 if they thought 2/3 of SLU, Dayton and VCU were leaving? Probably not.

Who thought UMass would go to the MAC, I don't remember ever seeing that?

(03-26-2014 09:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 07:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

This might also mean that Big East expansion looks a little less likely--would UMass be staying in teh A-10 if they thought 2/3 of SLU, Dayton and VCU were leaving? Probably not.

Val Ackerman has already said that the Big East is not looking to expand. I think the C-7, back to having a round robin of home-and-homes with their C-7 rivals, are happy with the way things are. The A-10 put more teams in the tournament than the AAC, so the AAC probably cant poach the A-10 without accepting an FCS football team into their league. Those were the two primary threats. That probably means the A-10 is stable and safe at this point.

I see the Sunbelt football-only option as the best course for UMass. Both the Sunbelt and UMass get something out of the deal and even if its short term, it allows the Sunbelt to work on other options for the long term (JMU, MS, EKU, etc.). One other option could be a Olympic sports move to the AAC coupled with a AAC scheduling agreement to help UMass survive as an independent while they build their program and get their on-campus stadium issues handled. I think that's an unlikely path, but I suppose its possible.

The question is whether UMass would want to associate with a bunch of southern regional universities (and far western universities) much further from Massachusetts than the MAC schools. The MAC at least has Buffalo, Miami and Ohio U. And whether a northeastern university is worth it to get to 12 for the Sun Belt.

What choice do they have? They obviously preferred associating with the MAC, but the MAC pushed the full membership issue. What UMass has shown is they want thier basketball in a quality conference. As long as the Sunbelt is for football-only I think UMass would be fine with the arrangement.

(03-26-2014 10:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 09:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 07:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

This might also mean that Big East expansion looks a little less likely--would UMass be staying in teh A-10 if they thought 2/3 of SLU, Dayton and VCU were leaving? Probably not.

Val Ackerman has already said that the Big East is not looking to expand. I think the C-7, back to having a round robin of home-and-homes with their C-7 rivals, are happy with the way things are. The A-10 put more teams in the tournament than the AAC, so the AAC probably cant poach the A-10 without accepting an FCS football team into their league. Those were the two primary threats. That probably means the A-10 is stable and safe at this point.

I see the Sunbelt football-only option as the best course for UMass. Both the Sunbelt and UMass get something out of the deal and even if its short term, it allows the Sunbelt to work on other options for the long term (JMU, MS, EKU, etc.). One other option could be a Olympic sports move to the AAC coupled with a AAC scheduling agreement to help UMass survive as an independent while they build their program and get their on-campus stadium issues handled. I think that's an unlikely path, but I suppose its possible.

The question is whether UMass would want to associate with a bunch of southern regional universities (and far western universities) much further from Massachusetts than the MAC schools. The MAC at least has Buffalo, Miami and Ohio U. And whether a northeastern university is worth it to get to 12 for the Sun Belt.

What choice do they have? They obviously preferred associating with the MAC, but the MAC pushed the full membership issue. What UMass has shown is they want thier basketball in a quality conference. As long as the Sunbelt is for football-only I think UMass would be fine with the arrangement.

I can't think of any reason the Sun Belt would want them for football only. Of course, I thought that about NMSU and especially Idaho also, so what do I know.

(03-26-2014 07:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

The MAC did make the ultimatum and UMass rejected it. If UMass didn't accept full membership, then they had to leave in 2015, which is exactly what happened.

(03-26-2014 10:15 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 10:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 09:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 08:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 07:16 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Big win for the A-10. People aren't really talking about that angle of it, but I think most observers had UMass gone to the MAC if the MAC made the ultimatum.

This might also mean that Big East expansion looks a little less likely--would UMass be staying in teh A-10 if they thought 2/3 of SLU, Dayton and VCU were leaving? Probably not.

Val Ackerman has already said that the Big East is not looking to expand. I think the C-7, back to having a round robin of home-and-homes with their C-7 rivals, are happy with the way things are. The A-10 put more teams in the tournament than the AAC, so the AAC probably cant poach the A-10 without accepting an FCS football team into their league. Those were the two primary threats. That probably means the A-10 is stable and safe at this point.

I see the Sunbelt football-only option as the best course for UMass. Both the Sunbelt and UMass get something out of the deal and even if its short term, it allows the Sunbelt to work on other options for the long term (JMU, MS, EKU, etc.). One other option could be a Olympic sports move to the AAC coupled with a AAC scheduling agreement to help UMass survive as an independent while they build their program and get their on-campus stadium issues handled. I think that's an unlikely path, but I suppose its possible.

The question is whether UMass would want to associate with a bunch of southern regional universities (and far western universities) much further from Massachusetts than the MAC schools. The MAC at least has Buffalo, Miami and Ohio U. And whether a northeastern university is worth it to get to 12 for the Sun Belt.

What choice do they have? They obviously preferred associating with the MAC, but the MAC pushed the full membership issue. What UMass has shown is they want thier basketball in a quality conference. As long as the Sunbelt is for football-only I think UMass would be fine with the arrangement.

I can't think of any reason the Sun Belt would want them for football only. Of course, I thought that about NMSU and especially Idaho also, so what do I know.

I think it buys both time. UMass gets time to develop without having to trash thier basketball. The Sunbelt buys time for better choices. They don't want Liberty. EKU and MSU are not ready yet. JMU doesn't appear to be willing to jump. UMass fills the role of SB #12 for a few years. It's likely temporary for both--but its a decent temporary fit for both.

(03-26-2014 10:15 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  I can't think of any reason the Sun Belt would want them for football only. Of course, I thought that about NMSU and especially Idaho also, so what do I know.

The Sun Belt has 11 football-playing members. 12 members are required by NCAA rules to hold a lucrative conference championship football game. There is a shortage of expansion candidates that the Sun Belt wants to invite that would accept a Sun Belt invitation.

The Sun Belt also has 2 non-football-playing members. So if they don't want to go above 12 in basketball, they need 2 football-only members to balance them out. New Mexico State, a current football-only member along with Idaho, would presumably get a full membership invitation if UMass was invited as a football-only. NMSU's basketball program would be a positive addition to the conference.

The big losers in this are any FCS schools looking to make the move to FBS. With the MAC back to an even number, a potential slot for an FCS school just went away. If the Sun Belt goes with UMass, that's another and possibly the final FBS opening that goes away. It wouldn't totally preclude the possibility of further expansion, but there won't be an immediate need and the FBS conferences can take their time and be choosy. Also, with all the conferences at even numbers, two schools would be needed to be make a coordinated jump.

(03-26-2014 10:45 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 10:15 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  I can't think of any reason the Sun Belt would want them for football only. Of course, I thought that about NMSU and especially Idaho also, so what do I know.

The Sun Belt has 11 football-playing members. 12 members are required by NCAA rules to hold a lucrative conference championship football game. There is a shortage of expansion candidates that the Sun Belt wants to invite that would accept a Sun Belt invitation.

The Sun Belt also has 2 non-football-playing members. So if they don't want to go above 12 in basketball, they need 2 football-only members to balance them out. New Mexico State, a current football-only member along with Idaho, would presumably get a full membership invitation if UMass was invited as a football-only. NMSU's basketball program would be a positive addition to the conference.

idaho will never get an all sports invite. That would just be dumb. All of the sunbelt right now includes their hope that they drop down to fcs in their nightly prayers.
NMSU we would take all sports.

The problem is without Umass Olympic sports they offer nothing we couldn't get out if Mo st or JMU or dare I say liberty. As all sports members. The only reason we added Idaho was because we were all playing them ooc anyway. And at the time before the defection of WKU it got us to twelve member and a CCG.