A slightly sympathetic interpretation of David Koresh and the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, TX.

Quote:(David Koresh stated) “This is my family, and no one is going to come in on top of my family and start pushing my family around. It is not going to happen,” Koresh declares. He puts on a pair of aviator sunglasses. “You come pointing guns in the direction of my wives and my kids, damn it. I’m going to meet you at the door every time.”

Quote:Outside the Mount Carmel complex, the F.B.I. assembled what has been called probably the largest military force ever gathered against a civilian suspect in American history: ten Bradley tanks, two Abrams tanks, four combat-engineering vehicles, six hundred and sixty-eight agents in addition to six U.S. Customs officers, fifteen U.S. Army personnel, thirteen members of the Texas National Guard, thirty-one Texas Rangers, a hundred and thirty-one officers from the Texas Department of Public Safety, seventeen from the McLennan County sheriff’s office, and eighteen Waco police, for a total of eight hundred and ninety-nine people.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/...ntPage=all

My struggle against the police state is a struggle against a militarized, shoot first ask questions later, hostile towards citizen's ideology and not a war on the best of the peace officers out there. It is a good read that makes libertarians like myself ask tough questions of their beliefs.

(03-24-2014 03:00 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

Quote:Outside the Mount Carmel complex, the F.B.I. assembled what has been called probably the largest military force ever gathered against a civilian suspect in American history: ten Bradley tanks, two Abrams tanks, four combat-engineering vehicles, six hundred and sixty-eight agents in addition to six U.S. Customs officers, fifteen U.S. Army personnel, thirteen members of the Texas National Guard, thirty-one Texas Rangers, a hundred and thirty-one officers from the Texas Department of Public Safety, seventeen from the McLennan County sheriff’s office, and eighteen Waco police, for a total of eight hundred and ninety-nine people.

Sounds like a bible verse.

Quote:Americans aren’t very good at respecting the freedom of others to be so obnoxiously different.

This.

The Waco raid is a huge blemish on American history, it is compounded by most people's indifference.

They had a valid Arrest Warrant on Koresh. Just me, but if I was going to execute the Arrest Warrant I would have waited until he played his ChristIan Rock music at "Open Mike Night" at Chelsea Street Pub at Lake Air Mall in Waco on Wednesday night and arrested him in the Parking Lot instead of the Frontal Assault.

What pisses me off is the Feds went ahead and Ran the Op even though they knew they had lost the element of surprise.

What I would have done was cut the power, built a 10 foot high Berm around the compound, and waited them out.

Yeah that was a bad situation.

We're from the government, and we're here to help.

The loss of life was horrific. To this day there are unanswered questions. The blame falls squarely on Janet Reno for approving the final gas attack. Before Holder, she was the worse USAG ever.

(03-24-2014 03:42 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

Quote:Americans aren’t very good at respecting the freedom of others to be so obnoxiously different.

The Waco raid is a huge blemish on American history, it is compounded by most people's indifference.

I agree, but I struggle reconciling the freedom of other to be obnoxiously different with the clear fact that the Branch Davidians were sexually abusing children.

As I said, it raises tough questions.

Aguilera affidavit which the warrant was based on, even today is in contention. If they had proof of child abuse, why not a warrant based on that instead of the one based on weapons?

(03-24-2014 03:51 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  They had a valid Arrest Warrant on Koresh. Just me, but if I was going to execute the Arrest Warrant I would have waited until he played his ChristIan Rock music at "Open Mike Night" at Chelsea Street Pub at Lake Air Mall in Waco on Wednesday night and arrested him in the Parking Lot instead of the Frontal Assault.

What pisses me off is the Feds went ahead and Ran the Op even though they knew they had lost the element of surprise.

What I would have done was cut the power, built a 10 foot high Berm around the compound, and waited them out.

Yep all the Feds had to do was wait until he left and they could have arrested him. Reno was awful. She also put many innocent people in jail down in Miami when she was a DA.

(03-24-2014 04:27 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Aguilera affidavit which the warrant was based on, even today is in contention. If they had proof of child abuse, why not a warrant based on that instead of the one based on weapons?

If you're a militarized police force, it's a lot sexier to dress up in black and camo and stand in front of an arsenal of weapons than it is to quietly walk kids to a foster home.

Yep.

They protected and served 25 of those children right down to a pile of ashes.

I'd like to say we have learned from those horrible days, but sadly we haven't. The militarization of the civilian police has continued unchecked.

(03-24-2014 04:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  The loss of life was horrific. To this day there are unanswered questions. The blame falls squarely on Janet Reno for approving the final gas attack. Before Holder, she was the worse USAG ever.

Yep, the Dems have a poor history of picking AG's. Reno declared war against Americans when she didn't have to.

(03-24-2014 04:37 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 04:27 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Aguilera affidavit which the warrant was based on, even today is in contention. If they had proof of child abuse, why not a warrant based on that instead of the one based on weapons?

If you're a militarized police force, it's a lot sexier to dress up in black and camo and stand in front of an arsenal of weapons than it is to quietly walk kids to a foster home.

Elian Gonzalez???

(03-24-2014 05:02 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 04:37 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 04:27 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Aguilera affidavit which the warrant was based on, even today is in contention. If they had proof of child abuse, why not a warrant based on that instead of the one based on weapons?

If you're a militarized police force, it's a lot sexier to dress up in black and camo and stand in front of an arsenal of weapons than it is to quietly walk kids to a foster home.

Elian Gonzalez???

I know this might upset some people, but I believe the kid belonged in Cuba with his father.

(03-24-2014 05:02 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

And I always wondered how that picture got taken. Did the government take it or the family?

(03-24-2014 05:07 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 05:02 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 04:37 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 04:27 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Aguilera affidavit which the warrant was based on, even today is in contention. If they had proof of child abuse, why not a warrant based on that instead of the one based on weapons?

If you're a militarized police force, it's a lot sexier to dress up in black and camo and stand in front of an arsenal of weapons than it is to quietly walk kids to a foster home.

Elian Gonzalez???

I know this might upset some people, but I believe the kid belonged in Cuba with his father.

I agree with you, but this another case of government assault weapons when they were not needed.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(03-24-2014 05:12 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 05:07 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 05:02 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 04:37 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 04:27 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Aguilera affidavit which the warrant was based on, even today is in contention. If they had proof of child abuse, why not a warrant based on that instead of the one based on weapons?

If you're a militarized police force, it's a lot sexier to dress up in black and camo and stand in front of an arsenal of weapons than it is to quietly walk kids to a foster home.

Elian Gonzalez???

I know this might upset some people, but I believe the kid belonged in Cuba with his father.

I agree with you, but this another case of government assault weapons when they were not needed.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Yeah, CPS manages to grab kids all the time without an arsenal. This whole episode was stupid, very, very stupid.

(03-24-2014 04:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  The blame falls squarely on Janet Reno for approving the final gas attack.

She bears primary (not sole) responsibility for all of the casualties, IMHO.