(03-24-2014 10:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 10:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Wichita State definitely wasn't overrated as a basketball team on-the-court this year - Kentucky had to play a *perfect* game shooting over 55% with multiple future NBA prospects on the court in order to beat them by 2. The Shockers were a legit team.

However, I agree with the premise that Wichita State is overrated by many fans as an expansion prospect for stronger conferences (even leagues without football like the Big East and A-10, much less the AAC or MWC) because it's not a good geographical, academic or institutional fit with anyone outside of the MVC and they're not bringing in a large market and/or recruiting area to compensate for it off-the-court. It's my old saying about conference realignment that you have to think like a university president: fans might like Wichita State a lot because of their recent on-the-court success, but they're not the type of school that is a great sell to university presidents. This isn't like Butler, who will always be located in Indianapolis (a big plus for both TV and recruiting) no matter how badly they might play in the future. Creighton is really the only school that has moved that is somewhat analogous to Wichita State (with Omaha actually being a smaller TV market than Wichita), but Creighton had the big-time advantage of being a perfect institutional fit with the rest of the Big East as a Catholic school. Wichita State deserves better, but it unfortunately is in no-man's land in terms of geography and as an overall institution in terms of realistic conference options besides the MVC itself.

Disagree with you to an extent. Wichita State has established itself as a pretty strong basketball brand the past few years. They've got a great baseball program as well. They're not some one hit wonder athletic department and they pack a 10K arena on a consistent basis in the MVC for goodness sake. They'd bring value just in terms of travel for the west and box office sales for tournaments, especially the one's held in Memphis.

This "brand" aspect is something you've stated was in favor of Boise State despite small market and horrible academics. It's something you said worked against ECU, yet we ended up in the Big East, when it was called the Big East.

Wichita State is close to Tulsa as well which provides a sensible travel partner for the other schools away visits. Academically speaking, while they're not particularly strong, they do fit the mold of a large, public school which makes up the majority of the AAC.

The intractable problem is that they don't have FBS football, though. I just don't see the AAC or MWC adding any non-football members at all (and even if they wanted to, there are options closer to their respective cores to target such as VCU and Gonzaga). The most attractive options for Wichita State are football leagues that likely don't won't non-football schools (AAC and MWC), a league that seems to want all private schools (Big East) and another league that seems to be moving away from the Midwest completely (A-10). These are all pretty fundamental issues with these leagues beyond what Wichita State might otherwise bring to the table.

(03-24-2014 01:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 10:47 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 10:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Wichita State definitely wasn't overrated as a basketball team on-the-court this year - Kentucky had to play a *perfect* game shooting over 55% with multiple future NBA prospects on the court in order to beat them by 2. The Shockers were a legit team.

However, I agree with the premise that Wichita State is overrated by many fans as an expansion prospect for stronger conferences (even leagues without football like the Big East and A-10, much less the AAC or MWC) because it's not a good geographical, academic or institutional fit with anyone outside of the MVC and they're not bringing in a large market and/or recruiting area to compensate for it off-the-court. It's my old saying about conference realignment that you have to think like a university president: fans might like Wichita State a lot because of their recent on-the-court success, but they're not the type of school that is a great sell to university presidents. This isn't like Butler, who will always be located in Indianapolis (a big plus for both TV and recruiting) no matter how badly they might play in the future. Creighton is really the only school that has moved that is somewhat analogous to Wichita State (with Omaha actually being a smaller TV market than Wichita), but Creighton had the big-time advantage of being a perfect institutional fit with the rest of the Big East as a Catholic school. Wichita State deserves better, but it unfortunately is in no-man's land in terms of geography and as an overall institution in terms of realistic conference options besides the MVC itself.

Disagree with you to an extent. Wichita State has established itself as a pretty strong basketball brand the past few years. They've got a great baseball program as well. They're not some one hit wonder athletic department and they pack a 10K arena on a consistent basis in the MVC for goodness sake. They'd bring value just in terms of travel for the west and box office sales for tournaments, especially the one's held in Memphis.

This "brand" aspect is something you've stated was in favor of Boise State despite small market and horrible academics. It's something you said worked against ECU, yet we ended up in the Big East, when it was called the Big East.

Wichita State is close to Tulsa as well which provides a sensible travel partner for the other schools away visits. Academically speaking, while they're not particularly strong, they do fit the mold of a large, public school which makes up the majority of the AAC.

The intractable problem is that they don't have FBS football, though. I just don't see the AAC or MWC adding any non-football members at all (and even if they wanted to, there are options closer to their respective cores to target such as VCU and Gonzaga). The most attractive options for Wichita State are football leagues that likely don't won't non-football schools (AAC and MWC), a league that seems to want all private schools (Big East) and another league that seems to be moving away from the Midwest completely (A-10). These are all pretty fundamental issues with these leagues beyond what Wichita State might otherwise bring to the table.

Wichita just needs to get off their butt and re-add Football. They have the Stadium.

There is no way anyone could have watched yesterday's Kentucky/Wichita State game and deduced that either team was overrated in any way. That was a heavyweight fight and both teams impressed the hell out of me.

Kentucky looks like a SUPER talented young team that is gelling at the right time. They were consistently getting to the charity stripe down the stretch and that is a sign of a team that is attacking the rim and playing with confidence. If they can play anywhere near that level on Friday, they are going to give Louisville all the Cards can handle.

For its part, every time UK would score, WSU seemed to have an answer. That Early kid is one of the best players I have seen in CBB this entire season. Had the Shockers been a Big East team, he may not have beaten out that McDermott kid for BE POY but he probably would have come in second. Their PG, Van Vleet was also a stud.

I think Wichita State is VERY good - better than I had realized. They just ran into a more talented team that played above its head and voila, they get dumped. Congrats to the Wildcats but there is no way I would ever agree that game exposed WSU as being overrated. If anything, I think it validated how good they were to stay so close despite Kentucky going completely en fuego down the stretch and still having to hold its breath at the end.

(03-24-2014 10:05 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 09:33 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 09:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  They got a 1 seed in the Valley, why would they want to move?

Because some MWC and AAC fans are advoacting for them to join.

I wouldn't mind them in the MWC and they are close by to the Mountain schools. However, If the MWC was going to add a bb-only school. Only two schools (that are realistic...not Gonzaga) come to mind. Grand Canyon Univ and Seattle Univ. GCU has great support and are expanding their area to 7,500+ due to demand. They fit perfectly in the MW and bring them into the Phoenix market. Now if they decide to add football then that would be gravy.

Geographically, both fit the MWC nicely. Grand Canyon would work better than Seattle, who I believe is Big West bound. I doubt either one will add football in the next 10-15 years though.

they probably are best fit for the AAC as a basketball only school, along with say, VCU. Their location is a good fit given their being not too far from Tulsa and SMU and would be a nice boon for both the conference and the school for their basketball competition, which is far superior to the MWC at this time with programs like Memphis, UConn, SMU and historically Temple and Houston. Throw in UMass and Buffalo for all-sports and Army as a football only and you have a very, very good conference all-around spanning many populated metropolitan areas.

(03-24-2014 10:05 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 09:33 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 09:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  They got a 1 seed in the Valley, why would they want to move?

Because some MWC and AAC fans are advoacting for them to join.

I wouldn't mind them in the MWC and they are close by to the Mountain schools. However, If the MWC was going to add a bb-only school. Only two schools (that are realistic...not Gonzaga) come to mind. Grand Canyon Univ and Seattle Univ. GCU has great support and are expanding their area to 7,500+ due to demand. They fit perfectly in the MW and bring them into the Phoenix market. Now if they decide to add football then that would be gravy.

GCU is a FOR PROFIT school, like DeVry. They shouldn't be in the NCAA's.

(03-25-2014 09:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 10:05 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 09:33 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 09:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  They got a 1 seed in the Valley, why would they want to move?

Because some MWC and AAC fans are advoacting for them to join.

I wouldn't mind them in the MWC and they are close by to the Mountain schools. However, If the MWC was going to add a bb-only school. Only two schools (that are realistic...not Gonzaga) come to mind. Grand Canyon Univ and Seattle Univ. GCU has great support and are expanding their area to 7,500+ due to demand. They fit perfectly in the MW and bring them into the Phoenix market. Now if they decide to add football then that would be gravy.

GCU is a FOR PROFIT school, like DeVry. They shouldn't be in the NCAA's.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/6223357/

So GCU makes about $50 million per year between 2009-2013 and pumped about $80 million per year back into capital projects. Going into the future they plan to pump $100 million per year into capital project the next 4 years. With $800 million in capital projects over a decade, they must have a nice campus but i guess you got to believe the numbers.

I wouldn't mind bringing them into the Big West. Grand Canyon can be reached by bus for most of the SoCal schools and they add a much-needed major western market outside of California.

Academics kinda went out the window when we attempted to bring back Boise State.